231 to 252 to encore, what price range?

[MIm20c]

I’m currently in the sit back and wait mode but ready to pounce if a good plane comes along. Looking at the long bodies but also thinking about a turbo mid body. After a year of looking I have noticed a range of values for the 231 (50-110) and 252 (100-160). The bottom end having missing logs, old avionics, or a run out engine. However, I don’t have any idea where the encore fits in. 

What premium would MS members pay going from a 252 to an encore?  What have past planes sold for?  How much is the encore upgrade including installation?

[carusoam]

Encore, Bravo, Ovation, and Standing O...

Were all of the same generation...

The Encore was the best developed and end of the line for the mid bodies...

The Ovation was the beginning of the line for a NA long body... 

The Bravo is a fantastic high altitude cruiser... with useable back seats...

the only noticeable benefit of going Acclaim... More HP, better climb, shorter TO...

How long are your flights?  Who sits in the back?

Best regards,

-a-

[One Whiskey Hotel]

Mine (a NDH 231) was on the higher $$$ side, but had full ADS-B with ES, Aspen, GTN750/650, flight stream 210 connectivity. Fresh overhaul with Merlin and Turboplus intercooler, new interior and decent paint. A couple of minor squawks but it’s a solid airplane and I’m happy with the value.

IMHO lower 100k and 5-figure 231’s have some hours on em and probably have basic IFR, but a tired 231 at the right price is a great overhaul opportunity, and thus they should be in great potential demand also.

Edited October 17, 2018 by One Whiskey Hotel

[carusoam]

 

[gsxrpilot]

Encore's very rarely come up for sale. I looked for one for some time before settling on the 252. One of the reasons for choosing the 252 is that it can be upgraded to an Encore, whereas the 231 can not. The only Encore's I've seen come up for sale were all very close to $200K.

[carusoam]

Top of the line, end of the line...rarity, and desirability, makes the price of the Encore.

-a-

[231LV]

Also, as I recall when I checked into this several years ago, the cost to go from the proper serial numbered 252 to the Encore was around $40-$50k which reflects the difference in price between the two. Never having flown either the 252 or the Encore, I can't speak to either plane but my 231 is a great cross country traveler at a considerable cost savings. With the upgraded LB engine and a Merlin waste gate, the 231 really only gives up useful load to the 252 and Encore.

[gsxrpilot]

My 252 will be an Encore soon and I expect the cost to come in closer to $15K.

[larryb]

A true Encore just showed up on Controller.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28779601/1998-mooney-m20k-encore

I have no knowledge of this plane or seller, I have no involvement. I bought my Encore 18 months ago, and since then I have not seen a single factory built Encore on the market. I think there was one conversion at AA in that time window.

Larry

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, larryb said:

A true Encore just showed up on Controller.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28779601/1998-mooney-m20k-encore

I have no knowledge of this plane or seller, I have no involvement. I bought my Encore 18 months ago, and since then I have not seen a single factory built Encore on the market. I think there was one conversion at AA in that time window.

Larry

All American had a true Encore about a year ago, the original color was a light metallic green and they painted it in a dark blue (corrected black) modern Mooney scheme.

[Bryan]

I bought AA’s (factory) Encore about a year ago. S/N 25-2026  Black bottom, White top, with silver and red accents.

Also, the back seat in a Midbody is the same back seat in a long body. You are basically sitting on the spar in both the long body and mid body’s back seat. The extra length comes in the baggage area.

[Niko182]

4 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I bought AA’s (factory) Encore about a year ago. S/N 25-2026  Black bottom, White top, with silver and red accents.

Also, the back seat in a Midbody is the same back seat in a long body. You are basically sitting on the spar in both the long body and mid body’s back seat. The extra length comes in the baggage area.

Im am nearly certain the long bodies have more legroom in the back seats too.

 

[LANCECASPER]

8 minutes ago, Bryan said:

I bought AA’s (factory) Encore about a year ago. S/N 25-2026  Black bottom, White top, with silver and red accents.

Also, the back seat in a Midbody is the same back seat in a long body. You are basically sitting on the spar in both the long body and mid body’s back seat. The extra length comes in the baggage area.

I had serial 25-2012 for about a year (N40FM). The "FM" at the end of the one I had and the one you have meant it was ordered by the dealer Fiesta Mooney at the time which was part of Cutter Aviation in Phoenix and San Antonio.

Yes the extra room on the Long body is in the baggage compartment.

[Bryan]

2 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

Im am nearly certain the long bodies have more legroom in the back seats too.

 

Not according to a Mooney sale person. We looked at my Encore (M20K) and the Acclaim (longbody) next to each other - they are the same; this was at the Mooney Summit. I had always thought that and found the baggage compartment has all the room differences.

[Bryan]

4 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

I had serial 25-2012 for about a year (N40FM). The "FM" at the end of the one I had and the one you have meant it was ordered by the dealer Fiesta Mooney at the time which was part of Cutter Aviation in Phoenix and San Antonio.

That’s cool. I really want to change mine to 755EM because “Echo” is easier to say than “Foxtrot” and the F would be easy to repaint to an E.... but it is taken

[LANCECASPER]

The original owner gave me the factory invoice when I bought N40FM.

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, larryb said:

A true Encore just showed up on Controller.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28779601/1998-mooney-m20k-encore

I have no knowledge of this plane or seller, I have no involvement. I bought my Encore 18 months ago, and since then I have not seen a single factory built Encore on the market. I think there was one conversion at AA in that time window.

Larry

That is an interesting ad as it gives very specific fuel flows and TAS at various altitudes.  Are those the true realistic performance numbers of an encore?

Although 50ROP seems like a not so good place to operate the engine so likely one would want a bit more fuel flow at each figure?

[Airways]

Those Encores are just stunning ! 

[jackn]

10 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

That is an interesting ad as it gives very specific fuel flows and TAS at various altitudes.  Are those the true realistic performance numbers of an encore?

Although 50ROP seems like a not so good place to operate the engine so likely one would want a bit more fuel flow at each figure?

My ff numbers are about 1 gph more (ROP) & about 4 kts slower. I do have TKS though. 

 

[INA201]

What’s the Encore advantage over the 252? The 252 seems really refined over the 231 for one.

[aviatoreb]

50 minutes ago, jackn said:

My ff numbers are about 1 gph more (ROP) & about 4 kts slower. I do have TKS though. 

 

Is that because you don't like operating at 50ROP as those book numbers suggest?  I also don't like operating at 50ROP.

Is the encore still at 210hp or do I remember right that the last versions of the 252 has a 225hp version of the TSIO360?

What I find interesting in the performance numbers reported in that ad, is I have always been assuming that my (231) rocket while yes, faster, is way less fuel efficient than a 252.  So assuming those numbers are right, and that well I would likely operate that 75% setting not at 50ROP but a fair bit more fuel flow, so what, maybe 14gph?  Then the rocket is only a little less fuel efficient since the 55% setting (168hp) of the tsio520nb is 15gph and that is a tad bit more horsepower from the 305hp than 75% of 210hp (157hp) or almost the same if it is a 225hp version (169hp).  So it looks like a 1gph penalty to drag around a larger engine at the same speeds?  Which is not as bad as I presumed.  But for some reason those reported speeds seem low at those horsepower settings since I think my airplane is a tad faster on the same horsepower settings.  Maybe 5-8 knots and I too have tks.  

Once we assume we are running the same horsepower, and forget about fuel flow, then the airplanes should all be mostly the same speed, right?  Whether ovation, rocket, 201, 252, 231, etc, right?  Other than some are more aerodynamic than others, due to mods.  The newer models have the mods put on at the factory during build and many of our older airplanes had mods added over the years.  Plus how well is the airplane trimmed.

[jackn]

28 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Is that because you don't like operating at 50ROP as those book numbers suggest?  I also don't like operating at 50ROP.

Is the encore still at 210hp or do I remember right that the last versions of the 252 has a 225hp version of the TSIO360?

The Encore is 220 hp. 

I used to fly with a guy who had a 231 with intercooler & auto wastegate. My plane definitely has a speed advantage, but we never quantified what it was. 

When flying ROP, I like to keep the tit temp around 1500 deg, so that’s not 50 degrees ROP. LOP, I get around 9 gph with a few kts loss. 

I have heard the rocket really shines above 10K where the air gets thin. Down low, the 252 performs close to a late model ‘J’, and up high puts in a very respectable performance. 

 

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, INA201 said:

What’s the Encore advantage over the 252? The 252 seems really refined over the 231 for one.

Useful load & interior.

 My useful load is about 1050. The 220hp, bigger counterbalances, and double puck brakes allow for the usefual load to be more.

also, the newer style interior zoos very nice.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, jackn said:

The Encore is 220 hp. 

I used to fly with a guy who had a 231 with intercooler & auto wastegate. My plane definitely has a speed advantage, but we never quantified what it was. 

When flying ROP, I like to keep the tit temp around 1500 deg, so that’s not 50 degrees ROP. LOP, I get around 9 gph with a few kts loss. 

I have heard the rocket really shines above 10K where the air gets thin. Down low, the 252 performs close to a late model ‘J’, and up high puts in a very respectable performance. 

  

Ah - 220 - yeah I heard it was more than the earlier models 210.

Anyway that chart on that 252 encore was very interesting since while I always knew that my rocket is a fuel hog and that a 252 encore is the pinnacle of speed-efficiency in the mooney line, because I am used to flying around at 18-21gph (65%-72%) at typical settings - it reminds me that its my fault for simply not dialing it back.  15gph is the legit 55% POH lowest setting and I see that it is comparable to 14gph in an encore in speed, but a tad faster and tad more fuel.  But rocket is much faster up high with much more fuel.  If only I had the self-control-patience to dial it back.

[EricS]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:08 PM, larryb said:

A true Encore just showed up on Controller.

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/28779601/1998-mooney-m20k-encore

I have no knowledge of this plane or seller, I have no involvement. I bought my Encore 18 months ago, and since then I have not seen a single factory built Encore on the market. I think there was one conversion at AA in that time window.

Larry

This Encore was on the market about 3 1/2 years ago (around May, Jun 2015).   It did not sell at that time.   Today's asking price is the same as the asking price in 2015.  Same airplane, same equipment, almost the same times.  Has there been any change in the 231/252/Encore market in the last three years?