Experienced my first spin yesterday

[rbridges]

Well, I know what it feels like to be scared. Lol. BFR with a CFI. practicing stalls.  One turned into a very short spin. Quickly regained control, buy I've read too many reports and heard too many stories about spins going bad.  Weird how fast your screen fills up with the ground below.  

[Mooneymite]

Now you are an "experienced" Mooney pilot!  

How many turns did it take for recovery?

[rbridges]

Probably less than a complete turn, but it's amazing how much stuff can fly through your head in an instance. 

[N201MKTurbo]

When I was getting my private back in ‘81 my instructor wouldn’t let me solo until I could demonstrate a spin recovery in the Tamahawk.

[RobertGary1]

12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I was getting my private back in ‘81 my instructor wouldn’t let me solo until I could demonstrate a spin recovery in the Tamahawk.

I taught in a tramahawk for a bit. During stalls and spins if you turn around you see the tail wagging like a homesick dog. 

-Robert

[N201MKTurbo]

43 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I taught in a tramahawk for a bit. During stalls and spins if you turn around you see the tail wagging like a homesick dog. 

-Robert

Strangely, I never looked at the tail whale I was spinning it. There is a lot going on to turn around and check out the tail. The last time I flew a Tomahawk was in 2001 when I found the exact plane I used for my check ride and convinced the owner to let me fly it on the anniversary.  

[MB65E]

Personally I think it should go back into the Airmen Certification Standard as options if CFI’s are willing to teach spins. 

I had a great time with spins in c152’s until the flight school I was at banned it. I felt it taught exactly where the stall would start. Power on entries, Turing entries from over the top. Then I looked at the engine mounts and decided I should stick with aerobatic airplanes instead.

All great stuff!! 

-Matt

[Hank]

56 minutes ago, MB65E said:

Personally I think it should go back into the Airmen Certification Standard as options if CFI’s are willing to teach spins. 

I had a great time with spins in c152’s until the flight school I was at banned it.

Spins were removed from the Private PTS because too many CFIs and Examiners were being killed spinning. Your Instructor is not limited by whatever is in the PTS (or its replacement), they are free to teach whatever else you want them to teach. 

Remember, the PTS only sets the minimums required to pass:  instruction, flight time, regimes of flight  aircraft control--they are only minimums. You are encouraged to exceed them.

Edited September 9, 2018 by Hank

[Seth]

Glad you quickly ended that spin.  How much altitude did you lose in your less than one full rotation?  What altitude did you practice the stalls?  Thank you for sharing your experience.  

I'm actually lining up spin training with an instructor (not in the Mooney) for the near future.  I just talked about it last week with him.

I have a weak stomach (flying has really helped) so I plan to do the spin training with a barf bag handy just in case.  I got airsick the second time I did aerobatics.

-Seth

Edited September 9, 2018 by Seth

[Hank]

3 hours ago, rbridges said:

Well, I know what it feels like to be scared. Lol. BFR with a CFI. practicing stalls.  One turned into a very short spin. Quickly regained control, buy I've read too many reports and heard too many stories about spins going bad.  Weird how fast your screen fills up with the ground below.  

Glad to hear that it turned out well! Examine what went wrong, discuss it with your instructor as a learning experience, and try really hard to not get into that same corner again. I've read about this going very wrong in Mooneys (courtesy of the NTSB), and am not anxious to read any more. Make sure you know how to get out, too--seems Don Kaye has a good writeup on his website about spinning Mooneys with students.

See you at The Summit pretty soon.

[MyNameIsNobody]

So, I did that one time.  Power on stall and I was LAZY and inattentive about having the ball centered.  I wouldn’t call it a spin, but it was FAR from benign.  That wing dropped like a bullet shot out of a pistol.  I mean FAST.  Got my total attention and made me realize I DO NOT WISH TO DO THAT AGAIN.  I am hyper alert to centered ball on flight maneuvers.  I don’t need a face slap.  That is a memory like yesterday.  Hey, somebody go up high and do that with another plane shooting the video.  I would love to see that from another outside perspective.  I am NOT volunteering.  So far the only “surprise” going along for the ride shock moments I have had in my Mooney.  The bounces and fuel running out of a tank I expected based on the circumstances.  This?  Nope.

[MBDiagMan]

BTDT!  My instructor required spin recovery in 1992 although the FAA didn’t.  I went through that then after being out of flying for awhile we had a checkout before turning me loose again.  We were doing stalls from a climbing turn and it broke into a “spin” although it technically was a spiral.  I went 270 degrees before leveling the wings and pulling it out.  It was totally unexpected, and afterward I asked if he did anything.  He said he didn’t touch it.  On the one hand it scared the daylights out of me.  On the otherhand it was a confidence builder knowing I got out of the mess on my own.

[MyNameIsNobody]

2 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

BTDT!  My instructor required spin recovery in 1992 although the FAA didn’t.  I went through that then after being out of flying for awhile we had a checkout before turning me loose again.  We were doing stalls from a climbing turn and it broke into a “spin” although it technically was a spiral.  I went 270 degrees before leveling the wings and pulling it out.  It was totally unexpected, and afterward I asked if he did anything.  He said he didn’t touch it.  On the one hand it scared the daylights out of me.  On the otherhand it was a confidence builder knowing I got out of the mess on my own.

What was your altitude?  We were only at 3000.  I won’t do stalls that low anymore.  I will do them, but not that low.  Most instructors don’t know what Mooney’s act like in a stall spin scenario.  I feel I need to educate and respect them for both of us.

Edited September 10, 2018 by MyNameIsNobody

[Hank]

24 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

What was your altitude?  We were only at 3000.  I won’t do stalls that low anymore.  I will do them, but not that low.  Most instructors don’t know what Mooney’s act like in a stall spin scenario.  I feel I need to educate and respect them for both of us.

I am always very cautious with a new instructor when they want to do stalls. Power off, up high, don't bother me much. But I was very cautious when the DPE wanted to do accelerated departure stalls on my Instrument checkride. He was also cautious, but not worried nearly as much as I was.

[kortopates]

50 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

What was your altitude?  We were only at 3000.  I won’t do stalls that low anymore.  I will do them, but not that low.  Most instructors don’t know what Mooney’s act like in a stall spin scenario.  I feel I need to educate and respect them for both of us.

Totally agree on where you're going with that thought! I personally insist on a min of 5000' agl for Mooney stalls; especially for an unknown airframe.

But if there is no yaw, Mooney stalls are typically very benign. Stare at the ball if you must, but its really all about yaw or movement about the vertical axis, eliminate that with rudder and you'll be fine and you might also notice the ball is likely not perfectly centered either to eliminate yaw when stalling straight ahead. 

[ArtVandelay]

What was your altitude?  We were only at 3000.  I won’t do stalls that low anymore.  I will do them, but not that low.  Most instructors don’t know what Mooney’s act like in a stall spin scenario.  I feel I need to educate and respect them for both of us.

6000 is the minimum (from the J POH).

[Stephen Watkins]

If it was up to me, basic aerobatic training would be required for PPL, and it's really too bad that it's so hard to find aerobatic planes and instructors.  

If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend learning basic aerobatics.  First of all, it's addicting...very addicting!  Second, it will increase your aviation skills, and third once you have flown inverted, or in a vertical dive, and recovered, if it ever happens to you because of turbulence or whatever, it won't be a big deal...

Steve

 

[kortopates]

32 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

6000 is the minimum (from the J POH).

Yes it does and the 6000' recommendation is in all the modern POH's. 

[RobertGary1]

6 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Strangely, I never looked at the tail whale I was spinning it. There is a lot going on to turn around and check out the tail. The last time I flew a Tomahawk was in 2001 when I found the exact plane I used for my check ride and convinced the owner to let me fly it on the anniversary.  

That’s the benefit of being the cfi. You can look around while the student had to fly the plane.  

When students are dojng stalls etc is a great time to get a nose pick in if you need to because most students are totally engrossed in the stall  As a cfi it’s just another boring manuever  

-Robert 

[RobertGary1]

13 minutes ago, Stephen Watkins said:

If it was up to me, basic aerobatic training would be required for PPL, and it's really too bad that it's so hard to find aerobatic planes and instructors.  

If you have the opportunity, I highly recommend learning basic aerobatics.  First of all, it's addicting...very addicting!  Second, it will increase your aviation skills, and third once you have flown inverted, or in a vertical dive, and recovered, if it ever happens to you because of turbulence or whatever, it won't be a big deal...

Steve

 

I’m not even sure how new cfi’s get their mandatory spin training anymore. I did all my cfi rating required spins inverted. I then taught basic aerobatics mostly inverted maneuvers .  But that was some time ago 

-Robert

[RobertGary1]

38 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Totally agree on where you're going with that thought! I personally insist on a min of 5000' agl for Mooney stalls; especially for an unknown airframe.

But if there is no yaw, Mooney stalls are typically very benign. Stare at the ball if you must, but its really all about yaw or movement about the vertical axis, eliminate that with rudder and you'll be fine and you might also notice the ball is likely not perfectly centered either to eliminate yaw when stalling straight ahead. 

I typically also do the first stall myself because a lot of Mooney’s will roll 90 degrees. 

-Robert 

[hoot777]

Single spin recovery and the spin prevent maneuver are probably two of the best things I learned at upt in the 1980s.  The spin prevent is simply unload the aircraft. For a spin to happen you have to have stall and yaw. Fly safely

[steingar]

Is it certain it was a spin and not a cross controlled stall? I once got into one inadvertently, and the appearance of terrain in the windshield certainly got my attention. Similarly exited quite quickly. I only ask because I’ve read that Mooney’s don’t recover from spins with what one would call alacrity.

[N201MKTurbo]

43 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I typically also do the first stall myself because a lot of Mooney’s will roll 90 degrees. 

-Robert 

If they are rigged right they will stall straight ahead. If not they can snap roll. Unfortunately I know this for a fact.

[bonal]

Used to spin my 150 and was loads of fun. You really have to force that airplane if you want it to get into a spin. Did some basic aerobatic training and was a blast.  We would do at least 3 rotations before my instructor would have me recover.  All of the threads on Mooney Space discussing spins in our Moonies have made me real careful about maintaining coordinated flight. Except when doing straight ahead slips. And when discussing spins make sure you are referring to spins and not spirals.