Will the engine run on water? Almost found out!

[Guitarmaster]

 

Since fuel starvation is a leading cause of GA accidents, when I bought my plane I made a promise to myself (and my wife) that I would do everything in my power to never have a fuel related crash. 
A large portion of keeping this promise is to sump the fuel at least each time the plane sits outside or is refueled even when I want to blow it off.
Today it paid off...
After coming back from my two-day trip and readying the plane for the flight home, this is what I found in the sump of the tank that was just refueled :O
This picture of the cup is AFTER four full samples had been taken. The first three samples were nothing but water. I noticed it was clear instead of blue and didn't smell. It took eight samples to fully clear the water out. 
The second pic is what water look like when dumped on the ramp.
Be careful out there guys and gals! Had I taken off with this much water in the tank, I doubt I would be writing this now.

[Oldguy]

Matt, I do hope you let whoever fueled you know this is what you found in your tanks, unless you think this was rain-related. You are conscientious, but others may not be so devout.

Good catch!

[Guitarmaster]

8 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Matt, I do hope you let whoever fueled you know this is what you found in your tanks, unless you think this was rain-related. You are conscientious, but others may not be so devout.

Good catch!

Yep... just called the FBO to let them know.  

[kevinw]

Unbelievable. Are you absolutely sure it came from fueling the plane? Any chance your seals are leaking and water got in before you refueled? In any case, nice job catching it!

[Guitarmaster]

4 minutes ago, kevinw said:

Unbelievable. Are you absolutely sure it came from fueling the plane? Any chance your seals are leaking and water got in before you refueled? In any case, nice job catching it!

The seals are six-months old so I doubt it was from the seals.  The caps were seated properly so I kind of doubt that amount of water would get in due to rain.  
The plane was on the ramp for about 24 hours.  There was a thunderstorm that passed over, but I don't know if that was before or after the plane was fueled.
I am sure it occurred on the ramp.  The plane resides in a hanger at my house and has not been rained on for months.

[kevinw]

5 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

The seals are six-months old so I doubt it was from the seals.  The caps were seated properly so I kind of doubt that amount of water would get in due to rain.  
The plane was on the ramp for about 24 hours.  There was a thunderstorm that passed over, but I don't know if that was before or after the plane was fueled.
I am sure it occurred on the ramp.  The plane resides in a hanger at my house and has not been rained on for months.

Thanks for sharing. I plan to be even more vigilant after seeing this.

[carusoam]

Great catch, Matt...

I joined your club years ago...  I sump because I can... whether i’m Indoors or out...  

Great pic,

-a-

[Yetti]

The airport I fly out of had a problem with their fuel truck letting water in via the top.   The built a cover for the truck.   It was one of the smaller trucks with stainless tank.     I would also be pulling my caps apart and checking the 010 O-rings.

[Guitarmaster]

3 minutes ago, Yetti said:

The airport I fly out of had a problem with their fuel truck letting water in via the top.   The built a cover for the truck.   It was one of the smaller trucks with stainless tank.     I would also be pulling my caps apart and checking the 010 O-rings.

The o-rings are definitely getting inspected just to eliminate that possibility.

 

[DonMuncy]

Matt,

I appreciate the reminder. When I went to pick up my plane after buying it (in 2000), I sumped and found a significant amount of water. Since that time, I have never found another drop. It would be easy to become complacent, but for guys like you reminding us.

[kortopates]

Great catch - but check out the Gatts Jar for the serious sumping our Mooneys deseve. Those little beakers are much too little for the sample size we should be taking when we have been parked out in the the rain away from home and many have missed a full beaker of water. Plus the Gatts Jar has a millipore like filter to allow returning the sample back to the tank while still holding any water which solves the disposal issue.
http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw7vraBRBbEiwA4WBOn54mtyhXT8omuOsTEwWMmzDdvXjpvVzuZV8FhCGt6FLdYwQGU9RLzRoCfp4QAvD_BwE


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[jaylw314]

14 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Great catch - but check out the Gatts Jar for the serious sumping our Mooneys deseve. Those little beakers are much too little for the sample size we should be taking when we have been parked out in the the rain away from home and many have missed a full beaker of water. Plus the Gatts Jar has a millipore like filter to allow returning the sample back to the tank while still holding any water which solves the disposal issue.
http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw7vraBRBbEiwA4WBOn54mtyhXT8omuOsTEwWMmzDdvXjpvVzuZV8FhCGt6FLdYwQGU9RLzRoCfp4QAvD_BwE


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+1 on the Gats jar.  You can also open the sump valve all the way to get a high flow of fuel out, I think this will help suck down any water/debris that is not right next to the valve.  You can't really do that with the tiny sample cups.

Also, you can put a cup under the fuel switch valve, drain your fuel, then pour the cup into the Gats jar with the top off.  When you put the top back on, you can pour it all back in your tank and the filter will keep the debris out.

[N6018Q]

17 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Great catch - but check out the Gatts Jar for the serious sumping our Mooneys deseve. Those little beakers are much too little for the sample size we should be taking when we have been parked out in the the rain away from home and many have missed a full beaker of water. Plus the Gatts Jar has a millipore like filter to allow returning the sample back to the tank while still holding any water which solves the disposal issue.
http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/gatsfueljar.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw7vraBRBbEiwA4WBOn54mtyhXT8omuOsTEwWMmzDdvXjpvVzuZV8FhCGt6FLdYwQGU9RLzRoCfp4QAvD_BwE


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There MS goes again costing me money- I couldn't close the link without hitting the "Order" button...

[Candy man]

Great reminder years and hours ago I sumped and it was all water. I didn’t notice I had only ever seen examples of some water. The other tank had none and the blue fuel made me go back to the first tank and sump more. I got lucky  that day had there been water in both I might not have noticed. Now I always sump and I ALWAYS hold the cup against a white part of the plane. Funny it’s things like this, that they don’t emphasize enough during private training.

Lawrence

[Skates97]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

Great catch, Matt...

I joined your club years ago...  I sump because I can... whether i’m Indoors or out...  

Great pic,

-a-

I do the same. Even if it has been locked up in my hangar and I am the only one with access to it I still sump before the next flight. I know the odds of finding water in the tanks when there was none there before, it has been locked up, and there hasn't been rain for months (assuming rain could find it's way somehow magically inside the hangar and into my tanks) is next to zero. However I still do it because it is part of my pre-flight routine and if I "always" do it then the chances of me forgetting to do it are reduced.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

The seals are six-months old so I doubt it was from the seals.  The caps were seated properly so I kind of doubt that amount of water would get in due to rain.  
The plane was on the ramp for about 24 hours.  There was a thunderstorm that passed over, but I don't know if that was before or after the plane was fueled.
I am sure it occurred on the ramp.  The plane resides in a hanger at my house and has not been rained on for months.

The larger o-rings are what we all see when we pull the caps off to re-fuel. But that little o-ring on the shaft sometimes doesn't get changed as often and can get folded

or misaligned. All of the water that sits in that little reservoir on the top of the cap can siphon down into the tanks.

This is a picture off of CSOBeech.com: http://www.csobeech.com/fuel-caps.html

 

 

Just to be sure I would check those and as long as you have it apart change them.

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/24410-fluorosilicone-fuel-cap-o-ring-kits/

[FloridaMan]

This was after several cups sumped from mine. I sumped it til it was all blue while shaking the wing between sumps, started on the other tank and then made several hard S turns for a mile down a taxiway and then got another few ounces of water out. I took off on the good tank while my passengers waited on the ground, flew over the field, switched tanks and flew aggressive turns and banks, switched back to the known good one, landed and sumped again, then picked up my passengers and went home, taking off on the tank that had not been contaminated. The cause was a line guy at KEYW improperly installing a fuel cap. 

I posted in another thread. Smell your fuel and verify the color. Had I not noticed the absence of the avgas smell, I might not have caught it. 

[Yetti]

This was an interesting point I learned while parking overnight away.  The Gatts jar has a bigger plunger which works great on the tanks sump.  But when I used the little cup that came with the plane, I was able to sump the fuel selector with the little cup and not having to get inside and pull the ring.  The little cup has a smaller diameter plunger.  

[Guitarmaster]

This was after several cups sumped from mine. I sumped it til it was all blue while shaking the wing between sumps, started on the other tank and then made several hard S turns for a mile down a taxiway and then got another few ounces of water out. I took off on the good tank while my passengers waited on the ground, flew over the field, switched tanks and flew aggressive turns and banks, switched back to the known good one, landed and sumped again, then picked up my passengers and went home, taking off on the tank that had not been contaminated. The cause was a line guy at KEYW improperly installing a fuel cap. 
I posted in another thread. Smell your fuel and verify the color. Had I not noticed the absence of the avgas smell, I might not have caught it. 

Actually, the reason I smell the fuel is because of your thread! The first cup out of the airplane had no smell.
I love these message boards for the simple fact that information sharing is so much faster and makes Aviation so much safer!

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[Shadrach]

15 hours ago, Guitarmaster said:

The seals are six-months old so I doubt it was from the seals.  The caps were seated properly so I kind of doubt that amount of water would get in due to rain.  
The plane was on the ramp for about 24 hours.  There was a thunderstorm that passed over, but I don't know if that was before or after the plane was fueled.
I am sure it occurred on the ramp.  The plane resides in a hanger at my house and has not been rained on for months.

Did you replace the inner O-rings as well?  I’d be very concerned if this came from a fuel truck/farm.  That being said, the likelyhood of that amount of water making into the pick up is pretty unlikely. I’m glad you you checked it though.

I always sump my tanks...fear of sabatoge. 

[Guitarmaster]

Yes, I always changing both rings.

Did you replace the inner O-rings as well?  I’d be very concerned if this came from a fuel truck/farm.  That being said, the likelyhood of that amount of water making into the pick up is pretty unlikely. I’m glad you you checked it though.
I always sump my tanks...fear of sabatoge. 

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[Bartman]

The cause was a line guy at KEYW improperly installing a fuel cap. 

This has been my experience as well.  My fuel cap o-rings are changed on a regular basis. That includes both the outer and more importantly the inner one must be changed at the same time, yearly at annual. I bought 10 of each hanging on the wall.  As Lance posted above the inner one is usually the one that causes my problem for a cap that is properly seated. The cap basically forms a cup for water to sit and it leaks down around the shaft. In the past the line guys manhandled the cap and being cocked sideways makes it hard to remove. I've had to get a screwdriver to pry the lever up to reseat the cap. Since then if I am away from home and on the ramp I began insisting on getting fuel as I arrive and unload bags to install the caps myself.  I also take that opportunity to discuss turning radius on the Mooney with the line guys. 

[Bartman]

Maybe a good idea to just carry some wide painters tape and cover each cap when parked on the ramp and rain expected.  I think I'll do that this weekend. 

[Raptor05121]

As much as I hate my smaller-capacity 48gal tanks with the thermos-style caps, it seems they are more impervious to water ingress than the flush-fitting design. The thermos cap sits atop a stainless-steel neck that rises above, and the entire "valley" below the fuel door has a drain going through the wing where water escapes. Ever since I resealed my tanks, I've never had water or material in my sumps, even after being parked out in days of continuous Florida rain

[gsxrpilot]

Since I fly a K with the damn filler neck and flapper, it just never works to put in a fuel order and head to the hotel or restaurant. It will be +/- 10 gal when I return. So I almost always am there to supervise fueling and I ALWAYS install the caps myself. I know just how tight they should be and anything else is on crooked.

In 700+ Mooney hours between two airplanes, I've never sump'd water out of the tanks.