What do you think of this crazy J??

[BodyshopDave]

Hello Mooneyspace. 

I’m looking at buying a J. This one in particular caught my eye and was hoping to see what the experts here thought. I know it had a gear-up around 4 years ago and has been flown regularly since then. Useful load is in the upper 800s. I’m awaiting logs to be sent. 

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/23277325/1987-mooney-m20j-201

[Danb]

Kinda pricey but a beauty, when having your ppi make sure the repair was properly done

[flyboy0681]

165 knots on 10 gallons? With three blades?

 

Based on what I have seen in the marketplace recently, this is priced reasonably based on its equipment and factory overhaul. Funky autopilot combination however.

[Bug Smasher]

NIIIICE!

[KSMooniac]

Looks nice, seems like the price is too high (trying to recover all upgrade costs?) and I don't believe 165 KTAS at 10 GPH.

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[BodyshopDave]

19 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

165 knots on 10 gallons? With three blades?

 

Based on what I have seen in the marketplace recently, this is priced reasonably based on its equipment and factory overhaul. Funky autopilot combination however.

Yeah. I thought that sounded a little high too...it’ll do what it’ll do right?

I saw that regarding the autopilot too.  Not ideal, but I assume it would work ok. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by BodyshopDave

[BodyshopDave]

13 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

Looks nice, seems like the price is too high (trying to recover all upgrade costs?) and I don't believe 165 KTAS at 10 GPH.

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Agreed. It is expensive. It seems like there isn’t much else in the market right now that has a low time engine with decent avionics.

[Hank]

Loaded, overpriced and overstated on speed. Don't think I've heard anyone else mention 165 knots for a J in cruise, although WOT/Full Rich should be a different story . . .

It's obviously his baby, and that is undoubtedly contributing to the (high) price.

Never hurts to make an offer, though. When I bought my house in '15, I thought my offer was low enough to get a counter. So did my realtor and the listing realtor. We were all surprised when it was accepted overnight. so be ready, you never can tell!

First, though, I would run it through a couple of evalutors like AOPA and the one in every copy of The Mooney Flyer.

Happy hunting!

[Rmag]

If it is squawk free, low time engine reman, lower time airframe, newer paint and interior, with a modern panel, I can see some people buying around his price.  I'd ask for a little more info on the autopilot.  Although he needs his airspeed indicator or fuel flow overhauled.  Its providing faulty readings... 

[jaylw314]

"your city may name a day in your honor with this one in your hangar"

Sheesh

2 minutes ago, Hank said:

Loaded, overpriced and overstated on speed.

I'd agree on all, although I don't think terribly overpriced.

[flyboy0681]

I still don't think it's terribly overpriced. Late last year when I thought the insurance company was going to total my '83 J, I started looking to see what clean and well equipped J's were selling for and concluded that a mid-1980's to early 90's platform with a well equipped steam gauge panel with a low time engine, recent paint and interior were selling between $130 - 135k.  Given the panel on this J, still think the price is in the ballpark based on what I had seen at the time, keeping in mind that only a sucker would pay the price that's actually being offered.

[Bartman]

I wish my J looked like this. 10 years younger and a very nice example of what can be done to an older airframe.  I'd like to see 165 kts, but I can only do 158-159 under optimal conditions, altitude, and max power.  Make an offer.  All they can do is say no, can't take your birthday away.

[mooniac15u]

What is the concern about the autopilot?  Is it because there are two parts listed? The STEC PSS-60 is a pitch control add-on for single axis autopilots like the KAP 100.  It can hold altitude, hold a constant rate of climb or descent, and track a glideslope.  I have one on my M20J that works together with my Century 21 AP.

[PTK]

Although I have no issue with the asking price it’s not appropriate for this airplane. For that kind of money I’d expect a Garmin G500 with a KAP/FC150, ADS-B in and NDH. Not a dead end Aspen with a patched up entry level auto pilot and the stigma of damage hx. 

Overpriced imo.

[Danb]

The stec 60pss is a nice addition to the current autopilot, $10-12K to add one.

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, Danb said:

The stec 60pss is a nice addition to the current autopilot, $10-12K to add one.

I guess my point was that this is a 1987 model year and the person who ordered it opted for a KAP 100 at a time when the KAP 150 was already a mature product. What was the difference in cost at the time?

[Danb]

Most likely.

[Marauder]

I’m with rmag’s on this. Take out all the avionics, undo the interior and paint job and you have yourself an $80k plane. The question that should be asked of the OP, is this plane worth $150k to you?

People have no idea how much all of these upgrades cost. I would rather spend a lot more on a plane that has healthy bones and is equipped nicely already. What are the other options? Moving up to an early Ovation or Bravo and still need to do updates. It’s not like Mooney is still making Js that have start of the industry avionics. As long as the plane’s value works out reasonably on the calculators, why are people resistant to pay more for something that is worth more?


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[PTK]

Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. 

[flyboy0681]

1 minute ago, PTK said:

Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. 

Add a factory reman and you are now in $150k territory. 

[Marauder]

Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. 

Yeah right. When do you install the 750/650 combo he has in the plane valued $30k? Or the $7k GTX-345 that is in the panel.

Like I said before, people are ignorant on these costs and your post proves.


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[pwnel]

2 minutes ago, PTK said:

Because you can take your hypothetical 80K $ airplane and put in a brand new G500txi, new paint and interior and be at 130K. 

Sorry, not a chance.  I wouldn't mess with autopilot either right now - too many new options will be STC'ed within the next few months.  GFC500 for example - although the Aspens is not going to work with that.  

[Marauder]

If it is squawk free, low time engine reman, lower time airframe, newer paint and interior, with a modern panel, I can see some people buying around his price.  I'd ask for a little more info on the autopilot.  Although he needs his airspeed indicator or fuel flow overhauled.  Its providing faulty readings... 

Dan - I know your shop is a full service avionics/paint/interior shop. Can you ball park the value of upgrades you see on this plane? Even if they are depreciated because of their age, he still has a ton invested in it.


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[PTK]

34 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Yeah right. When do you install the 750/650 combo he has in the plane valued $30k? Or the $7k GTX-345 that is in the panel.

Like I said before, people are ignorant on these costs and your post proves.


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Where do you see a GTX 345? And no avionics or interior can overcome the stigma of damage hx anymore than lipstick can help a pig.

I have no issue with the asking price. Just not reasonable in this  case. And I disagree with your assesnent that people are ignorant. They aren’t anymore ignorant than some sellers anyway. People want to see value for their money. 

If you hypothetically take away the damage hx how much should he be asking? 165k?! 170?!

[Marauder]

Where do you see a GTX 345? And no avionics or interior can overcome the stigma of damage hx anymore than lipstick can help a pig.

I have no issue with the asking price. Just not reasonable for this example. 

If you hypothetically take away the damage hx how much should he be asking? 165k?! 170?!

 

Calculated with the 330 in the panel. Did NOT include anything for the 3 bladed prop or if he did the mag conversion. Showed the AP as an Century or STEC since the only King shown on the calculator was the 200. Paint and interior both look to be in excellent condition.

 

He is in the ballpark. I certainly wouldn’t kick this Mooney out of bed for eating crackers.

 

 

 

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