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Survival Kit Discussion

khedrei

By khedrei
in Miscellaneous Aviation Talk

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khedrei Community Regular

khedrei

Posted
Posted (edited)

So I am pretty new here, and to airplane ownership.  I recently flew my Mooney VFR from the Toronto area where I live out to Millinocket Maine for a white water rafting trip for the weekend.  First let me say that the trip went perfectly smoothly and we had a great time.  In fact I don't think it could have gone much better than it did.  There was a stretch of about an hour where we didn't see any roads, houses, or towns.  It was summer time, I had a first aid kit, and my basic personal clothing and some food and water.  But I did not have a real survival kit.  This was my first trip of this length to this remote of an area.  My friend who flew with me asked what would happen if we went down.  I figured it would likely take days to be found, especially with my older 121.5 ELT.  It got me really thinking about the need for a survival kit.

I did a search here, and I did find a few people talking about this a little bit, but nothing that actually went into detail about it.  By that I mean a detailed list, pictures, and prices of what is really needed, what is optional, and what should change based on time of year and the geographical area being flown in.  Maybe as a group we can come to some sort of general consensus of appropriate gear or equipment for the various levels of preparedness that you would like to have based on your skillset and personality as well as the area of the country and season you are flying in.  Perhaps if there is lots of comments and interest a moderator can make this thread sticky and I, or someone else can continually modify the various lists and update pricing with suggestions of where to buy things.

Aircraft Spruce sells some pre made first aid kits and survival kits of varying degrees of quality, and intensity.  I decided to make my own.  Partially because I thought it could do it cheaper, but partly because I felt that some of the things listed in their kits were not necessary, and they left things out that I would like to have.  Also, some items seemed of cheaper quality, or so I can only assume based on the cost of the kit and the pictures.  I don't think I saved much as far as cost, but I was able to shop around at various stores and customize it the way I wanted.  I will list in point form what I have included in my kit, which would be more of a 3 season kit where temperatures would generally be above +10 Celsius during the day and above 0 Celsius overnight.  Obviously there would be a need for additional clothing and outerwear for colder temperatures.

The first aid kit I picked apart from a larger kit that I had in my house repacked it nicely.  I didn't feel the need to keep 100 band-aids, and 20 Gauze pads etc.  I made it a bit smaller and I believe it would suit 2-4 people very well.  The survival portion is aimed more for 2 people given certain individual use items I packed only two of, but these could be increased and the rest of the kit is sufficient to sustain 4 people for at least 48 hours.  I have also included a couple pictures.

First Aid Kit

  • 2 triangular bandages

  • 2 abdominal pads

  • 2 large gauze pads

  • 2 small gauze pads

  • 1 role self-adhesive gauze bandage

  • 1 role conforming bandage

  • 1 role medical tape

  • 2 pressure bandages

  • 10 benzalkonium-chloride wipes

  • 10 large Band-Aids

  • 10 small Band-Aids

  • 1 pack antibiotic ointment

  • 1 pair vinyl gloves

  • 1 bio bag

  • 1 emergency blanket

  • 10 safety pins

  • 1 Ziplock bag

    Survival Kit

  • Pellican 1400 heavy duty waterproof case

  • 3600 calories food rations (not in picture, but it is on order from Amazon)

  • 50 water purification tablets

  • 2 sheets of paper & 1 pencil

  • 1 sunscreen

  • 1 bug spray

  • 1 lip balm

  • 1 dental floss

  • 2 paper coffee filters (to pre-filter water)

  • 1 wind-up flashlight

  • 1 stick-on LED flashing beacon

  • 1 whistle

  • 1 thermometer

  • 1 Leatherman multi tool

  • 1 manual chain saw (essentially a rope/wire saw)

  • 1 roll duct tape

  • 3 sewing needles & thread

  • 1 fire starter kit & tinder

  • 1 match case & strike anywhere matches

  • 30 feet parachute cord with tinder inside

  • 2 pairs of hand warmers

  • 2 pairs of feet warmers

  • 1 pen flare launcher & 6 mini flares

  • 2 large stationary flares (the ones cops use on the road - burn for 10-15 minutes)

  • 1 compass with signal mirror

  • 1 emergency double size sleeping bag

  • 2 bug head nets

  • 1 large tarp (I have ordered a cheap emergency shelter/tent as well which will not fit in the kit but I can bring in colder temperatures)

  • 2 large garbage bags (can be used for rain ponchos)

  • aluminum foil

  • 1 Ziplock bag

 

The total cost for this entire kit is in the neighborhood of $500 Canadian including our 13% sales tax.  Before having a heart attack, note that 50% of that is made up of 3 items.  Some of which you might already have.  The most expensive part of the kit was the Pelican 1400 case which cost $109 + tax.  The smaller cases are significantly cheaper so if you can cram it into a Pellican 1100 or 1200 case you can get away with just over half of that for the case.  Another option is a 20L dry-sack like they use in rafting or canoeing.  Obviously it's soft, but you can buy one for $30 or so.  The other big ticket item was the tarp.  I spent $65 + tax on a large, very durable and very compact tarp that can be used as a shelter.  Obviously the ones from home depot for $6 work great but could never fit into this case with any room to spare.  The Leatherman Multi Tool is worth about $60-$70 which I had already, but estimated it in the total cost.  Of course you can get away with less depending on the type of tool you are looking for.  I had this one so I threw it in.  Some of the items I scrounged up from around the house like the sewing kit, the large contractor grade black garbage bags and aluminum foil.  I bought a good chunk of this stuff from MEC which is a great outdoor adventure store here in Canada similar to a Dick's in the U.S. 

 

***Edit  Almost forgot, it weighs in at about 12.5 lbs.

 

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Edited by khedrei
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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

Don't forget to search the same topic... for various lists provided by various Mooney pilots ...  from different areas of the globe...

Best regards,

-a-

 

yvesg Mentor

yvesg

Posted
Posted

khedrei, I don’t want to spoil your motivation to build such a kit, however my opinion is that if you stay south of the mid 40 degrees parallel , the odds of needing you kit are very very... did I say very? low...

For your flight to Maine from Toronto, you can stay with ATC all the way if you fly high enough if you do this VFR. If you have 121.5, there are a multitude of airlines going over your path and they all listen to guard. 

I have been doing a flight from Ottawa to Casey Quebec 1.5 hours a few times where I am at least 30 minutes without ATC contact and even there my wife keeps telling me she can see cottages all around lakes.... if I get an engine failure around there I would ditch in a lake near a cottage (mountaineous so no straight roads to land on) and possibly find human beings around.

If you plan to go way north of Canada where there is no controlled airspace at all then it is a different story.

Yves

Ned Gravel Grand Master

Ned Gravel

Posted
Posted

Khedri:

My friend from across the Ottawa river and I do not necessarily agree on this.  I have lived in the bush as part of my earlier career and I grew up in North Bay (about 3.5 hours north of you on Hwy 11 by car).  

My first emergency addition was a current ELT to replace the 121.5.  Best emergency investment you can make.  Until then, get a SPOT or a personal locator beacon.  With 121.5, it will take at least five hours for the folks from the Rescue Coordination Center (in Trenton, or Halifax, or the ones west of Ontario) to coordinate a mission to find you (not a lot of resolution from 2 satellite passes in 6 hours - if that even works any more).  On a 406 MHz device, it will take 20 minutes to locate you and dispatch a crew to the location.  From then on, it is just a matter of being found - they already have a good idea of your location.

Second, if you do not have it, get some training in how to use the stuff you have purchased.  It may mean restocking some items you may use.  If you already know and have lived in the bush in winter, there is not much you need to learn.  I helped mount some training here at our flying club about 11 years ago and we spent the night in the bush, with only the things in our survival kits.  Two pics attached.  Mine is the pack in the middle (ie: meant for schlepping around leaving my hands free).  You can see that some folks brought more than they would ever load into their plane (sheeesh).

Third, the best advice you will get from anyone is to not move from the crash site.  Lotsa reasons for that.  The site is more visible than you are.  The ELT is there.  If you can enhance the site's visibility with a signalling mirror, flares, fluorescent tape, a fire, or some way of writing something in the snow or on the ground that can be seen from a distance, it will help.  Our club runs civil air search and rescue (CASARA) exercises about four times a year.  The US equivalent is the civil air patrol (CAP).  Both organisations are dedicated to helping the system find you.  Both are part of the system to find you.  

The only other consideration is what to do if you are injured.  If injured you will have to understand that stopping the bleeding, keeping warm, and treating for shock are your three most important activities. You have a good first aid kit, but I would also get a little handbook called the SAS Survivor's guide.  See https://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/books/book-review-sas-survival-handbook-third-edition-by-john-lofty-wiseman/2014/12/23/0c9d3e8c-8476-11e4-a702-fa31ff4ae98e_story.html?utm_term=.4bc51f7ae485.  Full of little hints on what to look for and how to make use of things we might not consider readily available - even when injured - without turning into a survivalist. 

There is one other member of Mooneyspace that flies a Bravo from Newfoundland to Edmonton.  You can imaging the country he crosses if you look at the great circle nav routes this involves.  He carries a "brown bear" / "white bear" discourager.  Not a bad idea if flying in the mostly uncontrolled airspace of our great white north - but not really necessary at all in the US or within controlled airspace.

I think you are doing the right thing for the right reasons.  Good luck.

 

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  • Like 2
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted

I agree with Ned on the survival pack. i carry one with me on any cross country. Even in the northeast of the states, there have been planes not located for hours and even overnight. Sitting in the woods overnight at the freezing level can be lethal. 

I didn't notice any tools in your pack. I carry a Bowie type knife and a military style collapsible shovel. If you need to build a shelter, you will want those with you.

khedrei Community Regular

khedrei

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Thanks for the detailed response Ned.  I know North Bay and Northern Ontario very well.  I have been for multi day back country canoe trips and I run freight trains for our national railway into North Bay and Sudbury so I know that there is a whole lot of nothing up there.  I haven't been up there a lot in my airplane but plan to do some trips at some point.

I have to disagree with the suggestion that it is not needed in this area of the country.  I live around the 43'rd parallel (North Bay being around 46 I think) and we had the temperature drop below freezing on the 1st of September this year.  Even on my trip to Maine, I was in contact with ATC for all of it, but there were times I had to drop below a cloud deck and he said he would likely not see me below 4000 feet.  We did part of it at 3500.  If it takes even 24 hours to locate me the money spent will be more than worth it.  I spent $400 on the kit, the rest of it I had.  I don't want to be the person who suffers or even dies because he spent $400 on a new LED strobe for his Mooney but failed to keep an adequate survival kit.

For tools, I have a Leatherman Multi-tool in there which is a good quality tool with multiple knives, saws, and pliars and many other tools.  I also have a rope/chain pull saw.  No shovel though.

Thanks for the advice on the Pellican case.  I think I might just do that.  I was trying to think about ways I could attach ropes to the case if needed to drag in the water while swimming.  That drysack is exactly what I was thinking of as an alternative option if one didn't want to spend the money on the case.  I think it may be a better idea anyway and will reduce the overall cost of the pack.

Edited by khedrei
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Seth Grand Master

Seth

Posted
Posted

I may have missed it, but also purchase a 406 PLB - personal location beacon.  

 

I am equipped with a 121.5 ELt but within reach in the cockpit is a 406 pearsonal locator beacon both to use should I survive and am conscious and also will still be there as a backup once I replace my 121.5 ELT with a 406 ELT.

Plus I can take it sailing, on hikes, skiing, etc . . . Anywhere “off” road.

-Seth

  • Like 1
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khedrei Community Regular

khedrei

Posted
  • Author
Posted

On the topic of the PLB's, is there such thing as a device that can be registered to a person (as opposed to a vessel) which has no subscription fees but which also has the function of the "I'm ok" messaging that Spot device has?

carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

Somebody had gone through the options recently of costs vs capabilities while Trying to select a personal locator...

I couldn't find it immediately, but this is what I turned up via search...

https://mooneyspace.com/search/?&q=spot personal locator&item=24068&sortby=relevancy

Keep up the good work and sharing what you find.

Thanks to KPaul... the link he gave automatically and thoughtfully supports the smile campaign for downed Mooney pilots....  :)

Best regards,

-a-

  • Like 1
Robert C. Experienced

Robert C.

Posted
Posted

and the FAA's contribution:

I Will Survive!

Do you have what it takes to survive a forced landing or aircraft accident? Little things can make a big difference in increasing your odds of a successful rescue. Have a look at our #FlySafe topic of the month flyer for October (https://1.usa.gov/2xOV2MU) which focuses on general aviation survival techniques.

The article has a good list of items.

During the Mooney Summit the topic of survival kits came up in 2 presentations.

Dan noted that after the crash he couldn't find anything. It was distributed all over the plane and the countryside. If you're not wearing it, don't count on having it or finding it.

Andrew and Dan both noted the importance of having PLBs and a strobe. Both noted having the rescue helicopter flying over them and not seeing them. A strobe would have been picked up and accelerated their rescues.

Robert

  • Like 2
Ned Gravel Grand Master

Ned Gravel

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, khedrei said:

I have to disagree with the suggestion that it is not needed in this area of the country.

Khedri: 

Sorry, misunderstanding here.  I think the survival kit is needed where you fly.  I carry mine when flying to Rocktown from Ottawa. Or to North Bay, or Timmins.  

I was just suggesting that a firearm might not.  (Bear persuader)

MB65E Grand Master

MB65E

Posted
Posted

Great stuff guys!! Additionally, if it helps- I have coffee, TP, pen/paper, PLB, cliff bars, and whistle  in my kit! My plan is to be relaxing comfortably drinking coffee and offer some to the helicopter crew if needed. 

Aircraft spruce sells a crash kit Charlie that I've purchased for a few clients. I thought it had good value. 350ish etc. pretty good warm fuzzy. 

I'm still looking for some nice American or German steel knives. Everything now seems to me made in China. 

Office Depot sells a 10 man office survival kit. It has some water packs, rations, lights, survival stuff.  I've gotten a few of them and modified them with some real survival stuff. They are a bit big for the m20, so I modified them more with a smaller backpack. Our work SMS program had some guidelines for a Emergency response plan. In the ERP, there is a crash scene list for a kit that had some good stuff in it. 

I just re packed out first aid kit for the Citation... it sucks!! That's my Next project..

Good friend at the airport grew up in the ID back country. We continue to geek out on these things. 

Be Safe,

-Matt 

  • Like 1
MB65E Grand Master

MB65E

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, khedrei said:

On the topic of the PLB's, is there such thing as a device that can be registered to a person (as opposed to a vessel) which has no subscription fees but which also has the function of the "I'm ok" messaging that Spot device has?

Yes, but I have not seen the I'm ok option with the PLb. 

I like the ARC PLBs. They fit in your pocket. 

I still have 2 spots, but I'm beginning to think they are more of a marketing thing. However, i do like their tracking functions while in route. 

-Matt

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted
19 hours ago, khedrei said:

 I spent $400 on the kit, the rest of it I had.  I don't want to be the person who suffers or even dies because he spent $400 on a new LED strobe for his Mooney but failed to keep an adequate survival kit.

 

Well said!

Clarence

Cyril Gibb Experienced

Cyril Gibb

Posted
Posted

I regularly fly over inhospitable areas.  If I had to choose between spending my money on a well equipped survival kit and a 406 ELT, I’d go for the ELT.

If you’re injured, you probably can’t take full advantage of a survival kit.  Getting help is the most urgent requirement.  If you’re not injured, other than than water, warmth and dryness, you don’t need much equipment.  The average person can be just fine (although hungry) for at least a week with no food. Unfortunately, if you’re not found in a few days, you’re probably not going to be found.  Getting help is again the most urgent requirement.  

I have a 406 ELT that I’d activate immediately on the way down, in addition to 7700.  Even if the ELT was pranged, there should be enough time for the 406 satellites to register a location.  For a 121.5 ELT, airliners may hear it, but there’d be no way to locate the signal source within 100s of miles.  If I were conscious and able to get a view of the sky, I carry an InReach satellite thingy with an SOS feature that provides a GPS location within a few feet.  Soak torn out upholstery in engine oil to get an impresssive smoke signal going.

My survival kit is the mandatory first aid kit, few space blankets, a woolen blanket, a folding camp saw, waterproof matches and a few litres of water.  I could also use the canopy cover as a tent if I had to.  Just keep warm, dry and hydrated.

DonMuncy Grand Master

DonMuncy

Posted
Posted

My bet is that any survival kit is going to be too heavy or take up too much space; until you really need it, and then it will be WAY too small.

DAVIDWH Proficient

DAVIDWH

Posted
Posted

My survival kit consists of flight following, two new box cutter knives (one in each side pocket) and two hatchets, again one  in each side pocket.

The box cutter knives are to cut loose the seat belts (Remember the pilot that crashed in a wooded area upside down and spent nearly 20 hours unable to free himself) and the hatchets are strictly for aircraft exit use.

Now, where is that I-Phone when I need it?

chrisk Veteran

chrisk

Posted
Posted

I put a kit together a few years ago.  The major items were: knife, fire starter, cigarette lighters, Mylar blankets, bandages with quick clot, signaling device (strong green laser), a "life straw" water filter, para cord, and pistol with 10 rounds.   I put all of this in a camel back bag.   Weighs in around 5 lbs or 6lbs.   If flying over the mountains, I make sure I have adequate clothing/coats in the plane for cold temperatures.  I also typically have some sort of water in the plane, but who knows if it would survive a crash.     I have a ELT with GPS, as well as a PLB.  The PLB is in my pilot bag and goes everywhere with me (including hiking).  The pistol also goes hiking with me, when in bear country.  I went with a laser signaling device (and charge the battery prior to my big trips).  I figure it will actually get the attention of a relatively high flying aircraft and at least generate a police report.  :)

As I recall, the relative order for survival is:  1) first aid, 2) shelter, 3) water, and 4) food.   In my mind, that means stop bleeding, be able to get out of the elements and make a fire, and find water if you can.  Food is very far down on the list.  I can easily live without eating for a week. 

 

DanM20C Mentor

DanM20C

Posted
Posted
On 10/7/2017 at 7:42 PM, Hyett6420 said:

Listening to Dan at the mooney summit, he of the famed Carbon Monoxide landing, he said that to be honest he was not in a fit stste after landing to even use a survival kit.  Which led nicely onto what i ALWAYS carry in my Mooney which is a liferaft with a self inflating canopy. All you need to do is get it out of the plane and tug the cord and bobs your uncle you have immediate shelter that you can just crawl into. So to me the most important  survival things are:-

  1.  Make sure im found quickly, a PLB
  2. get shelter quickly - liferaft
  3. get warmth quickly - mylar sleeping bags
  4. have water - 50ml water sachets are great for this
  5. fix me if broken - decent first aid kit.  Go to an ER unit and get them to help you put this together.  They will include sutures, not jist bandages.
  6. means of making fire - tampons, magnesium stick and a. Knife.  Also add fire lighters ina satchet.  

That will keep you alive for at least 5 days.  

Andrew

Andrew has converted my thinking on the lift raft with canopy.  It's brilliant.  Instant shelter. 

From my accident I learned the importance having things properly secured/stowed within reach of you.  If you find yourself stuck in your seat, PLB's, signaling devices, hand held radios, etc. won't be much help if they are stored nicely in a survival kit that you can't reach.  I suggest splitting the survival kit up to keep critical communication/signaling devices withing reach in the event you are unable to leave your seat.  If you have the ability to get out you can then grab the rest of the kit in the back.

Cheers,

Dan

  • Like 2
Ned Gravel Grand Master

Ned Gravel

Posted
Posted

Just as an aside, I also keep an ICON A6 in my flight bag with Li-Ion batteries fully charged, from the charger on my desk at home.  From this discussion, I have recognised that it might also serve as a method of requesting assistance on Guard or the frequency used by overflying aircraft.  Although I spent twenty years in the Signal Corps, I appear to have forgotten that cell phones are not the only way to speak live to another person while alone in the woods.

Thanks.

Piloto Grand Master

Piloto

Posted
Posted

In your survival kit don't forget a toilet paper roll. It is very handy for cleaning injuries and your rear exhaust. Specially when carrying small children.

José

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