Looking for Advice G1000 vs GTN

[co2bruce]

Looking  for anybody who has experience with both. We now have a GTN and are looking at newer planes with G1000 (waas). Are we giving up too much functionality going to the older avionics? Will we be sorry? Any advice is welcomed?

[markejackson02]

Make sure the G1000 is certified for LPV approaches.  I believe some of the earlier versions of the software were not.

[ArtVandelay]

Check if ADSB supported....

[FBCK]

I think most would say buy an airplane without it as the G1000 is part of the airplane and can not be removed.  With the steam panel you can drop in what ever you please, be it a G500 or Aspen or even some of the new none certified stuff like the Skyview HDX or Garman 3x, when they get STCed.  A lot more options.

[MIm20c]

I talked with the dynon and Garmin booth.  I think the stc choices are limiting with certain planes and options. For instance if you are looking for a FIKI I don't think you can use a non tso'd product. 

The g1000, g500, and aspen units are all old technology but they are massively better than the steam gauges they replace. In my opinion all three units will provide upgrade options for a cost, how much is anyones guess. 

[exM20K]

GFC700 was a big driver in my decision, and that is G1000-only.  It is a vastly superior AFCS to anything else out there.  I am also very familia with the G1000, having flown behind that system for nearly 10 years, and I like the system a lot: it's intuitive, capable, and keeps the cockpit&spaniel clutter under control  

 

However, if Garmin's new autopilot will play nicely with a G500/GNS750 setup,  that could be the better setup.  G500, while smaller, has twice the pixel density of the G1000, so it is easier to read.  And since this panel mount stuff can be swapped out, you're not locked in forever to G1000.

The G1000 Mooneys have a much shorter panel, and I really like this feature, especially on final and landing.

If an Acclaim is what you're after, then obviously there's no choice other than G1000. Ovations and Bravo offer some choice, though the G1000/Bravo won't allow GFC700, so you're left with the inferior S-Tec.  The economics of retrofit vs. OEM are a little more tricky.  G1000 is known and will retain value less normal depreciation. How much of an $80,000 panel will you recover in resale on a less expensive plane?  Maybe half? 

[Txbyker]

Bruce,

I went from a GTN650 and Aspen combo in my M20J to a G-1000/STEC combo in the M20R.  The touch screen is nice and I got pretty good at it in the J.  I must admit, I do like pressing the buttons sometimes on the G-1000 but again sometime long for the touch screen.  I guess its not that big of a deal to me as of right now.  I don't know what Garmin/Mooney/Beech/Cirrus etc are going to do about upgrading the G-1000.  A bunch of us on here petitioned enough and have WAAS now and ADSB In/Out on the STEC so I would no longer be afraid of that one.  I wish they would bring us the FlightStream.  The NXi is out but not certified for the past of course unless you have a King Air.  I heard that Garmin more or less couldn't keep making the G-1000 due to component shortages and came out with the new NXi.

Perhaps there is more in moving to the G-1000 than just the avionics.  I am not sure what your M20S has onboard but a lot of the G-1000's come with O2 and Air Conditioning as you probably know.

Russ

[smccray]

Up to now, G1000 aircraft seem to sell at a premium to non-g1000 aircraft.  The planes tend to be newer, but looking at prices near the change-over to glass, G1000 planes seem to be more expensive on average.  There's a thread on beechtalk talking about a $60K cost to upgrade a G1000 plane to the latest and greatest G1000 NXI avionics.  That's about your only upgrade path to a G1000 plane, assuming that the type certificate holder offers the upgrade.

I don't believe the G1000 price premium will continue.  As the G1000 gets longer in the tooth, I expect it to become a problem.  There have been discussions that the G1000 on the type certificate will be a problem upgrading avionics; I don't expect that to be an issue upgrading.  If an owner whats to rip out the G1000 and install a Dynon system for example, I would bet money that it will be feasible.  However, you're still looking at a big check for a panel makeover.  I don't think it's a big deal either way, only to say that if you look at a 2004 Ovation with steam gauges, a 2005 ovation with the stec autopilot, a 2007 ovation with GFC700, or a 2008 with a WAAS G1000, I would expect the differentiation in the price point to compress over time.

The jury is still out on the impact of the Dynon HDX on the used aircraft market, but I expect we'll see an acceleration in in the adoption of glass panels, and an increase in the value of comparably less equipped aircraft as the cost to do a full retrofit including the autopilot is dramatically reduced.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, smccray said:

Up to now, G1000 aircraft seem to sell at a premium to non-g1000 aircraft.  The planes tend to be newer, but looking at prices near the change-over to glass, G1000 planes seem to be more expensive on average.  There's a thread on beechtalk talking about a $60K cost to upgrade a G1000 plane to the latest and greatest G1000 NXI avionics.  That's about your only upgrade path to a G1000 plane, assuming that the type certificate holder offers the upgrade.

I don't believe the G1000 price premium will continue.  As the G1000 gets longer in the tooth, I expect it to become a problem.  There have been discussions that the G1000 on the type certificate will be a problem upgrading avionics; I don't expect that to be an issue upgrading.  If an owner whats to rip out the G1000 and install a Dynon system for example, I would bet money that it will be feasible.  However, you're still looking at a big check for a panel makeover.  I don't think it's a big deal either way, only to say that if you look at a 2004 Ovation with steam gauges, a 2005 ovation with the stec autopilot, a 2007 ovation with GFC700, or a 2008 with a WAAS G1000, I would expect the differentiation in the price point to compress over time.

The jury is still out on the impact of the Dynon HDX on the used aircraft market, but I expect we'll see an acceleration in in the adoption of glass panels, and an increase in the value of comparably less equipped aircraft as the cost to do a full retrofit including the autopilot is dramatically reduced.

If I remember correctly the G1000 is part of the type certificate for the GX Bravos and Ovations and for all Acclaims and can't be altered. It would be hard to argue that taking it out is a minor alteration. Upgrading it eventually to an Nxi might be a possibility. On another thread (I think on Beechtalk) they mentioned that Garmin is coming out with one last software update for the G1000, but that's it. There have been some amazing deals on G1000 aircraft but you would really have to think it through and consider what may happen down the road if there aren't any more components for sale and Mooney hasn't spent the Mooney to certify the Nxi retrofit. In the meantime I'm sure the G1000 has a lot of capability.

[smccray]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

If I remember correctly the G1000 is part of the type certificate for the GX Bravos and Ovations and for all Acclaims and can't be altered. It would be hard to argue that taking it out is a minor alteration. Upgrading it eventually to an Nxi might be a possibility. On another thread (I think on Beechtalk) they mentioned that Garmin is coming out with one last software update for the G1000, but that's it. There have been some amazing deals on G1000 aircraft but you would really have to think it through and consider what may happen down the road if there aren't any more components for sale and Mooney hasn't spent the Mooney to certify the Nxi retrofit. In the meantime I'm sure the G1000 has a lot of capability.

Agree- definitely not a minor mod, but someone will develop an STC at some point.  Over the next 3 I wouldn't worry much about the G1000 aircraft; 10 years from now I would be a little concerned.  Somewhere in between... I don't know.

[Danb]

Many of us G1000 guys continuously have our balls broken having such outdated stuff. Yes you can have WAAS, yes Adsb, big screens our planes have been discounted for having to install these items. I obviously prefer the G1000, many like Mr Kaye takes every chance to belittle the ships with that equipment aboard. Since we've fought for WAAS and Adsb, it took awhile but it's available. 

Adsb for around $7000, WAAS not sure Rick can chime in say $15- 20,000 your set. Also try to purchase one with it equipped. I have to assume those with the 750 and 650's, G-500, engine monitor's, great autopilots, Adsb  what am I missing probably spent over the $25,000 I mentioned above.

By the way I think those with G500 , Aspens Garmin GPS's are awesome, my statement is not intended to say anything bad about those flying with other systems. There great, my buddies Chris's panel is truly awesome.

 I just get tired of those putting down the GX planes in our fleet.

I my opinion all Mooney's are great awesome planes.

End of tirade

[Godfather]

When I was plane shopping back in 2003 one of my top contenders was a new 182 with the g1000.  I made the right choice with an almost new Mooney and have never regretted it. However, buying new or almost new sets you for a solid kick in the balls every time someone says your plane is only worth x dollars. I just put a smile on my face and remember all the places I've traveled and the people I spent time with. 

[smccray]

2 hours ago, Danb said:

Many of us G1000 guys continuously have our balls broken having such outdated stuff. Yes you can have WAAS, yes Adsb, big screens our planes have been discounted for having to install these items. I obviously prefer the G1000, many like Mr Kaye takes every chance to belittle the ships with that equipment aboard. Since we've fought for WAAS and Adsb, it took awhile but it's available. 

Adsb for around $7000, WAAS not sure Rick can chime in say $15- 20,000 your set. Also try to purchase one with it equipped. I have to assume those with the 750 and 650's, G-500, engine monitor's, great autopilots, Adsb  what am I missing probably spent over the $25,000 I mentioned above.

By the way I think those with G500 , Aspens Garmin GPS's are awesome, my statement is not intended to say anything bad about those flying with other systems. There great, my buddies Chris's panel is truly awesome.

 I just get tired of those putting down the GX planes in our fleet.

I my opinion all Mooney's are great awesome planes.

End of tirade

If anything I have said is interpreted as putting down any airplane of any kind that's not my intent.  There isn't an airplane that exists doesn't have some limitation/tradeoff; there also isn't an airplane anywhere that doesn't have the panel getting older.  Every plane has its relative benefits and weaknesses.  Integrated panels are fantastic in their capability- arguably better than anything else on the planet.  I flew right seat with a friend flying a TBM850 into the DFW area- it was almost cheating how easy it was to manage the airplane.  Down side with G1000 avionics is that it's an integrated system as it ages; it's not possible upgrade in stages.

My choice- I plan on going with the Dynon system which will set me up for the same problem as that system ages.  10 years newer hardware/systems than the G1000, but it will have it's challenges in the future as well.