New (lady) member - Considering an M20G

[Sophie]

Hey, 

Hope you guys don't mind us ladies sharing your passion for flying Mooney's. I've really learned a lot from this forum and also the MPA. I've found a sweet looking 1968 M20G with manual gear that I'm considering moving ahead with. Apart from fuel bladders, corrosion, general maintenance ... any tips regarding things to look at with the M20G ?

Thx 

  

[1964-M20E]

Sophie

Welcome aboard we accept any aviators out there especially ones with an affinity for Mooney airplanes.

Post some pics of the plane along with the stats.

 

first off make sure you get a good pre-purchase inspection done by a good mechanic that you trust and that knows Mooneys

Tell us a little about yourself.

1. do you have your private pilot license yet?
2. how many years have you been flying?
3. do you have your instrument rating?
4. how many hours do you have?
5. what is your flight mission?
6. what part of the country do you live?

 

 

[Marauder]

Well, its about time we have another lady on this site! We have a few ladies who own Mooneys but most of the time it is us crotchety men who are contributing to the site.

I would encourage you to do a thorough review of the avionics not only from a performance perspective, but also for your flying requirements. It is often overlooked and can be a real wallet buster if you need to do an upgrade or repair avionics. 

I'm sure you found the VRef sites. If not, let us know and we can pull up the links. It will help get you in the ballpark for what the plane is valued at. Depending on your budget and who/what you will be flying around, if the G doesn't work out, a C/E or F may be found that does. 

[Sophie]

1964-M20E and Marauder 

Thanks or the +ve encouragement and introduction. 

About me .. 

- I have my Australian PPL (many years ago) and lived in Vermont for the first 16 years after coming home to the USA in my 30's . I decided to go through the normal training to get my private pilot's license and was fortunate to get a great instructor who is a mooney owner. I'm pretty close to being done, one more cross country and I'm ready for my FAA check ride. At that point I should be past 100 hours total. I've always loved mooney's ... they are such a nice piece of engineering (can you tell I'm the daughter of an engineer ... who spent way to much time helping in the garage with her Dad). As a software engineer I'm pretty comfortable with technical things and I really love great engineering.

- My husband and I moved to Seattle about a year ago, he's a lapsed pilot :-(.  After getting to see the Pacific North West and all that is on offer I decided that I should get back into flying (I learn't in Australia when I was single) and see some of the sights. 

- My mission ... that was a hard thing to pin down... but I think I've figured it out. I'd like to get an instrument rating using a plane that I know, really explore the Pacific Northwest and get involved with the flying community. I'd like to be able to throw a bicycle (wheels removed) in the back of the plane and visit different communities, maybe even get along to various fly in's and plane/camp from time to time. The idea of back country flying is interesting but I think I'm a few hundred hours away from having the skills needed. So while I'm building up the time, and having fun, I'd like to be in an economical, reliable plane that can be serviced and keeps it's value. I have flip flopped between a Cessna 182 or 182RG and a mooney M20F or G  since they both have range and a reasonable payload ... yes us ladies always pack too much !

- There are a few mooney's on the market that seem to represent good value. From all of the reading I've done (thanks to many of you) I know the pre purchase inspection is critical.  In addition I read a really good article M20F - Aircraft Evaluation Report . I figure that if I can pickup a loved mooney in the late 30's to 40's with plenty of engine time that needs some updates to it's avionics I will have done well. So there it is ... hopefully I answered your questions and I'd look forward to any advice.

Sophie 

 

 

 

[mooneygirl]

Welcome to the Mooney Family.  I am sure that you will be very wise in choosing the right airplane.  I believe you mentioned that you joined MAPA [www.mooneypilots.com]  They have a good magazine and classified ads as well.

Additionally please make sure that you have a thorough pre-buy inspection at a MOONEY SERVICE CENTER. There is one in Troutdale, OR and Albany, OR.  The Johnson bar [manual gear] is a piece of cake once you get the muscle memory and speeds correct. 

All the best

 

 

[Hank]

Welcome from another engineer! I love my C, have taken it as far as Cody, WY and all over the Appalachians without problem, other than a little mountain wave in W. NC once. It handles most turbulence well, although the Southwest has the reputation for both more and rougher turbulence than I've been in.

There are some tricks to running a carbureted Mooney, far different from how our injected brethren run their E, F and J models. 

Hope your purchase goes smoothly, and that you have lots of fun afterwards! 

[milotron]

Welcome the board and the pacific northwest.  Another engineer ( and cyclist! ) saying hello, but from north of the border.  We also have funny accents.

The west coast is a beautiful area to fly, but really need the IFR if you want to get anywhere. Do you see yourself heading east over the mountains much?  Maybe consider a turbo?

Lots of great spots to fly to and cycling destinations on Vancouver Island. Go north to Port Hardy with an amazing sushi place walking distance from the airport ( not open on Sundays, ask me how I know this...)

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard, Sophie.

I hope you like to write.

Are you building a giant chart of planes, attributes and prices?

my graph was simple...  horsepower to weight ratio vs. price.  I ran out of money before I got to the end of the graph... 

Go Engineers!

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 7, 2017 by carusoam

[Yetti]

And that is the thing with gineers....  talk about things...   Business majors just get things done because we are burning daylight.   Unless there are other factors like great deal, great avionics or great engine on this plane...  Gs are slow  Compared to other Mooneys... Faster than other brands....

[carusoam]

Even Turtle couldn't be satisfied with a G...  he went F. 

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 7, 2017 by carusoam

[AlexLev]

I love my J-bar G. You mentioned you want to throw a folding bike in the back, you definitely could do that with this plane, but there's only one that may fit in through the baggage door (let me know if you want me to try and dig out the link).

Does part of me wish I had an F? I don't know. Maybe. An extra hundred pounds of UL would surely be nice, but I do like the simplicity of a carburated plane and the 180hp engine. Cheaper to overhaul than an F!

If you find one that's well maintained, don't avoid it just cuz it's a G ;). If you want some tips on what to look for on pre-buy, @DXBhelped me out a ton with the process! I would just rehash his advice. As far as speed: I plan around 136knots or so with my G. I flew it from Buffalo to Raleigh and then to Charleston a few weekends ago and it was fast enough for me.

Edited March 7, 2017 by AlexLev

[Cyril Gibb]

5 hours ago, Sophie said:

I'd like to be able to throw a bicycle (wheels removed) in the back of the plane and visit different communities, maybe even get along to various fly in's and plane/camp from time to time.

When we travel, we almost always take our road bikes.  At first we just removed the front wheels and tossed them in over the back seats.  Now we remove the rear seats for traveling and can carry our bikes and car camping gear comfortably (with both wheels removed).  If you're wilderness camping of course, no bikes but you'd need the extra equipment space anyway.  Sigh, if only we could figure out a way to carry a canoe.....  we rent that from the local outfitter.

[3914N]

Welcome! I am a G owner myself and absolutely love it. 

I think I'm about 5-7 knots slower than a 'C or 'F. That doesn't bother me too much... I'm still doing 135 ktas on 9 gph. I love having the extra space for passengers and luggage, and I don't mind the carburetor. 

I'm happy to answer any G-specific questions you might have. 

[Conrad]

There exists documentation of a minor modification to allow the rear seats to fold down. You definitely want to look into it! Look here: 

You want to be the caretaker of a true piece of engineering, so I predict you will definitely end up buying a J bar Mooney. There's no alternative!

[Nokomis449]

I've owned my particular 1968 G twice now - I let her get away once, but never again.  You cannot find better speed and economy for the money.  It's a great IFR platform and with a few speed mods (read engineering tweaks) it's a 145KT speedster.  I love the manual gear and flaps.  It's the only bird certified by the FAA withOUT an emergency gear extension system - it's THAT foolproof.  Maintenance is simple and affordable, and the O-360 is bulletproof.  Mine just went over TBO with no signs of aging; the AI says keep running it until we see metal in the oil or compression issues.  Your biggest expense may be in upgrading the avionics if they are dated, so pay as much attention to the panel as you do the A & P.

Good luck!

[Bob - S50]

Sophie,

Welcome to the Pacific NW.  Our plane is based at Auburn, WA (S50).  Where do you plan to keep yours?

In regards to the earlier reference to turbos, you probably don't need one (our Mooney is NA too).  7500' VFR is plenty high enough to cross on V2/ Interstate 90.  You can make it all the way to the flatland at 9500' VFR if the winds aren't blowing hard enough to make it turbulent.  You can even make it all the way to California at 7500' or even lower by following Interstate 5 or the coast.

Bob

[1964-M20E]

12 hours ago, Yetti said:

And that is the thing with gineers....  talk about things...   Business majors just get things done because we are burning daylight.   Unless there are other factors like great deal, great avionics or great engine on this plane...  Gs are slow  Compared to other Mooneys... Faster than other brands....

Nothing really against you bizniss majors but without us engineers all you can do is buy and sell things.  Engineers make things happen, they design buildings, space vehicles, planes, trains, automobiles, ships, water systems, sewer systems, electrical power systems so when you turn on the light switch at your house the lights come on and when you need to go to the grocery the car is there and the roads are there and the meat does not spoil at the grocery store before you get there.  Without engineers modern life would pale in comparison to what we have today.  Think about life in the mid 1600's and even then though most likely not called engineers people like engineers were working to improve things.

Oh and if you didn't get it already I'm an engineer too. 

JMHO 

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

Hi Sophie,

Welcome to our little group. I'll echo what @Bob - S50 says. I live in Texas, but my wife and I were in the NorthWest last summer with our M20C. We flew Napa - Seattle - Kalispell, MT with lots of little excursions along the way. We had no problem at all in our 180hp M20C. Full disclosure though, I have sold the C and now fly a turbo 252. That was more for Colorado flying though.

On another note, as some others have mentioned, upgrading avionics can get very expensive very quickly. Most of us would agree that it's much cheaper to buy the plane with the avionics you want, rather than upgrade later. My calculations are that for every $1 spent up front on the right airplane, you'll save $4 in upgrade costs. Having said that, some of us are always upgrading avionics regardless. 

If I might make one suggestion though, don't buy a Mooney without a good autopilot. It is very expensive to add one later, but something you'll undoubtedly want especially with an Instrument rating one day.  So look for a Mooney that has one already. The purchase price won't be any different.

Just my $0.02 and glad to have you aboard.

[bonal]

+1 on the auto pilot even for VFR flights its real nice to have.  When on my first flight with my CFI in my just purchased Mooney i asked my instructor whats that he said its your auto pilot...cool 

[Nokomis449]

Here's an old article about the G model from MooneyPilots.com...

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/M20G Evaluation/M20G_Eval.htm

[jamesm]

Hello Sophie,

Welcome to Mooney Space and the PNW. There is a very active group on Facebook (Flight's Above Pacific Northwest aka FATPNW )  and several  us have Mooney's of different vintages and many different models also many  friendly Aviatrix in the group,   and  Who knows someone in the  may encourage  the Husband to get current again.  :-)

http://www.flightsabove.org/

 A lot Mooney knowledge  here on this site as you have already mentioned, all the  best in your Mooney  search and your  instrument flight training.

 James '67C

RNT

[TonyK]

Welcome,  I am new around here as well and I have found everyone to be quite cheery and helpful.  What part of Vermont are you from.  I am located on the southern end of Lake Champlain. 

 

Tony

[Sophie]

Hi TonyK, 

Nice to meet you. I lived in Vermont for about 16 years in the Burlington area ... have moved to Seattle now. I really do miss those lovely Green Mountains. I've spent many an hour cycling through Vermont ... some of my fondest memories !

Sophie 

 

[Sophie]

Hi, 

Based on some further research and the feedback provided by this group I'm broadening my view to include M20E, F and J. There was an extremely useful write up on how to make the rear seat fold down ... Thanks ... so the useful payload for a bicycle is no longer an issue ... yay !!! Thanks.

I have spotted a M20J that has some new avionics (Garmin 530) BUT it's missing an autopilot (previously it had wing leveling but that has been removed). I gather retro fitting an autopilot is a major, major expense ... correct ? In addition there is some minor weep (at the top of the wing) about a 2inch patch from the starboard tank ... is this a stay way clear plane ?

I've already learned a ton from this group ... thank-you for all of the contributors

Sophie  

 

[carusoam]

Leaks at the top of the wing are usually at a rivet.  Easy fix.  Leaks at the bottom are much trickier to find the source...

Pick a Mooney, any Mooney...

Speed

efficiency

four people

factory built

All manual to all electric

all steam gauges to all digital displays

fly in everything from VMC to low IMC (nav/com with ILS)

perfect for local flights and long X-countries

great for all pilots from new to experienced, from young to old, short to tall...

select a power source from carbureted to fuel injected, normally aspirated to turbocharged or Turbo normalized.

As far as auto pilots go, a simple wing leveler is a great extra hand when you need one.  The Mooney ones last for ever and are well supported.  New installations are complex and expensive.  Check to see if the plane you are looking at has the hardware still in it. There is a new lower cost digital AP that is getting a lot of interest as it is just coming to market...

These statements are intended to help a searcher find the details they need to define their mission...

 

Enjoy your search, as much as I have so far...

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 8, 2017 by carusoam