Sophie

Hi, Wanted to provide everyone who gave such great advice a quick update. I've seen some sad Mooney's, had some close calls on some great planes and missed out. Tomorrow I'm hopeful that she'll be the one I fly home. Yes the avionics are a bit on the older side and the panel could use a small amount of configuration, but she's been the pride and joy of an owner and seems to be very well maintained and the price allows me to get into an M20F at a decent price point and do some flying before I go for my instrument rating. During the negotiation, preparing for the pre buy and the final inspection I've had the benefit of this groups help and I just wanted to say thanks. If this isn't the plane I'll keep looking until I find the right one but I know all of the things to look for and the cost to resolve certain issues. I'll update the group on the outcome.

Hey Bob, Thanks for the insights. I've heard and read that the rubber pucks and bushings in the landing gear need to be done about every 15 years. The fuel tanks leaking seem to come up all the time and it appears that they are expensive to repair. How many hours do you have on your plane ?

Hi , Great points on mission and sharing the cost, it would be nice to have partners in the enterprise. I was going to advertise after getting the aircraft to do just that ... probably after I have my IFR rating so I'm a bit more experienced. I'm looking at an aircraft closely right now and I'm trying to figure out the difference between normal wear and tear and "deferred maintenance". I was wondering if anyone had a reference or could share their views on the frequency of rebuild/replacement in years or hours that should have or will take place on the following:- 1. Landing gear rebuild including pucks, bearings and replaceable parts 2. Brake master cylinders 3. Brake calipers and hoses 4. Starter 5. Fuel pump 6. Battery 7. Alternator 8. Exhaust system (i'm assuming this isn't done at TSMOH) 9. Air intake 10. Control rods and couplings for rear stabiliser and rudder 11. Fuel tank re-sealing 12. Aileron cables and bearings 13. Windscreen 14. Rear step vacuum unit Updating the avionics,over hauling the engine and hub/prop are pretty well tracked and managed but as I'm finding these additional items are REALLY important, potentially expensive but are subject to normal wear and tear. After all most of these are 40 to 60 year old aircraft. Is there a reference point for this list ? S

Hi Ken, Based on all of the advice I've received and my own research, here goes:- 1. Must have been a loved aircraft and not have any deferred maintenance. Ensure fuel tanks, landing gear/pucks, glass, prop have been attended to and any engine work is done properly. Ideally a minimal set of AD’s so that inspections are lower cost and not too frequent. If possible an engine and prop at mid time or less, along with the "B" hub to remove the prop AD. I'd prefer a two blade prop I think (lighter) as well as a light weight starter 2. Must have been hangared and have minimal corrosion and a well maintained paint job. 3. Although I’ll have to start lifting at the gym again … hahaha … I think I’d still prefer the J-Bar (removes the duke motor AD) and it's just simpler all round. 4. Must have some decent avionics with a useable/sensible panel for someone doing their IFR rating. Also serviceable and useful for someone who wants to fly around her home airport to explore the Pacific North West (4 - 5 hour trips) . This includes (somewhat in order) :- Autopilot (ideal if it has altitude hold) A good 6 pack instrument layout A solid GPS (430W or 530W) …and after reading about WAAS that would be awesome ! Good audio panel and high quality radios with a 4 place intercom ADS-B or an easy path to upgrade to ADS-B. I currently have a Stratus 2 and an iPad so I’d be leaning towards an Appareo. An engine monitor – but I could add that An HSI would also be great Not much need for a storm scope in Seattle ... it's just always cloudy and/or raining :-) .. but for cross country it might be nice 5. It would be great if it had some of the speed mods. Especially if they looked good and also give a noticeable improvement in performance, after all who doesn’t want to be in a great looking mooney that flies fast. 6. A tanks block/engine heater, it gets cold here in Seattle 7. It would be great if it had a fold down rear seat (especially if it’s an “C” or “E”) and over the shoulder belts/harness, an interior that is neat and tidy with very clear glass all around 8. It would be nice if it had upgraded insulation, together with a noise cancelling headset the ride would be lovely Thanks to everyone who helped me to figure out this list, hopefully it's evolved the right way. Sophie

Hi KLRDMD and Rocket Based on all of the great advice I've received it's a hard decision that is probably dependent on the planes available (C, E or F ... I'm shying away from the G since it really is a bit slower) . I'm leaning towards the "F" because it just gives you more options with friends and family. I'm haven't found a plane ... yet ... that has it all, which is not surprising because they are treasured friends for their pilot owners. Due to this forum I'm equipped with the right questions to reduce the number of wild goose chases and make more educated decisions and I thank you all from my newbie heart for that. I've organized to kick off my IFR rating in April and it would be much more economic ... and fun to do it in my own plane .. my CFI thinks so too (he fly's a mooney (E) as well). It will be really neat to get the endorsement(s) associated with the model of plane at the same time as I do my IFR. As I've discovered, you'll never save money by being an aviator but you can certainly find ways to spend it less voraciously :-). Sophie

Hey Browncbr1 we have a really great lady ATC here at KRNT, her annunciation is super clear and she does a great job at keeping everyone organized. I'm glad your controllers have kept you safe ! Aviation even here in the big city (Seattle- KRNT) sure has a great community feeling. It 's very welcoming and as well being an incredibly fun sport I am personally thrilled that my tax dollars support a fantastic infrastructure that I get to enjoy on a regular basis. The advice on the J's and the K's has been great ... maybe that's my next jump in a few years. For the time being, I think I'll have my hands full with my first Mooney (C, E or F).

Just checking a couple of other questions across the group. Can I get some opinions 1. Someone told me that the most common speed mods the upgraded single windshield on the "F" (remove the center bar) would effect the structural integrity of the plane. I'm having a bit of trouble believing it ... so I thought I'd get some opinions. I can't imagine the modification being allowed if there is a structural issue. 2. If I find a highly speed modified "E" or "F"... does that mean that you've got to very careful that I'm not pushing the structural integrity of the plane by being in the yellow on a frequent basis. 3. Non hangared M20J that still looks pretty good (bit at a lower price point) vs M20F or M20E that have been hangared. My inclination is the later ... the budget just won't stretch any further :-) for a perfect J. 4. This is definitely a naive question ... there are some less expensive M20K's out there with reasonably high time on them. Based on the research I've done ... the cost of running a M20K seems MUCH higher and although it's a beautiful bird, it just seems to be asking for trouble especially as a newbie. Do I have this correct ? MyNameisNobody asked why did I put (lady) in my title. Great question ! I've worked in technology for years and I've been lucky to develop a lot of skills working with many highly competent men and women. I appreciate and respect the different ways that men and women look and approach things. I guess it's my strange way of showing respect for the group, so that people providing advice so graciously, may know better where my question is coming from ... hopefully it wasn't inappropriate.

Haha .. well I am blonde and pretty strong but alas middle age is catching up. At least I can afford an awesome plane now and I'll feel younger :-) it may be $100 salad runs if I need to keep up with her

All of the feedback has been wonderful and especially since it's from the heart and helps anyone consider their strategy when thinking about the best plane for themselves .. thank-you. The number of really loved and well maintained Mooney's is pretty thin, in fact I'd prefer to buy through word of mouth but I'd also like to get started with my IFR training this year :-). All of the guidance so far is really helping me to eliminate the wild goose chases and ask all of the right questions. I've also found that the brokers tend to add a challenging communication layer on the truth, so being properly informed is key to breaking through the scattered BS. I'm now focused on looking for a well maintained Mooney, and in addition looking for one with limited AD's can help to make the aircraft more economical with respect to the annuals and regular (100/150/500) hour inspections. I gather the JBar removes a big one because it removes the need to inspect the duke motor/drive. In addition the prop seems to be another. Are there any other costly AD's that you think I should be looking out for ?

It turns out to not be WAAS. I'm reading up about the benefits of WAAS and the cost of the upgrade. Based on what you see on the instrument panel for it to NOT need an annunciator the left edge of the 430W can be no more than 11.8" from the pilot's primary view centerline. It that just a matter of measuring from the center line of the control column. For this of you that have WAAS ... it does seem to be a pretty nice feature ... is this mainly future proofing ? The FAA documentation makes it compelling in reality are the benefits that obvious (although I will pay through the nose for safety).

Hi Yetti, Great idea and feedback is very welcome. Here are the two "current" candidates 1. M20 C - http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20C+MARK+21&listing_id=2243241&s-type=aircraft 2. M20 F - http://www.trade-a-plane.com/search?category_level1=Single+Engine+Piston&make=MOONEY&model=M20F&listing_id=2206631&s-type=aircraft There are a couple of other likely contenders. I visited #1 today ... very nice, well maintained and documented. Started up very easily and sounded great, was a little surprised we couldn't take it for a fly because the owner was waiting for a new air worthiness cert from FAA. He didn't have it hangared with full tanks which seemed a little odd, The log book shows the right fuel cell was resealed and the fuel quantity sending unit was replaced by Don Gerbrandt (10/25/2012). There is an unusual stain on the carpet on the floor of the pilots footwell, you can see it in the pictures. I gather it happened prior to the current owner purchasing it. The installation of the Garmin was IFR and the instruments were really nicely laid out. Didn't appear to be any deferred maintenance, in fact the Garmin had just been refurbished when it was sent in to have it's battery replaced. Thoughts/views appreciated S

Hi, Thanks for all of the good guidance I think I've come across two planes that I'll move to the next stage with, can I ask for thoughts/views on both. Both have basic AP capability neither with altitude hold. Both have updated avionics with reasonably good 6 packs and both have 3 bladed props. 1. M20C - 1965 high $40s Electric gear with virtually no speed mods TT 2510 SMOH 1007 Garmin GNS 430 + HSI KX165 nav/comm KT76A transponder Dual PTT PS Engineering intercom EGT Century IIB Autopilot GT106A AR850 PS2000 2. M20F - 1972 mid $50's - Electric gear with limited (belly pan) speed mods TT 4934 SMOH 934 Garmin 300XL Moving Map King KX 155 KN 64 DME KT 76A Transponder Cell phone port Davtron M800 Clock Davtron M655 Brittain Autopilot Trying to weigh up the benefits of both. I'd love some opinions S

Hi All, Wow ... this feedback is really ... really appreciated. I helps me and others in future but it also means that I don't waste peoples time when they are trying to sell their pride and joy. Thank-you S

Thanks Hank ... is there a definitive place people use as the KBB of Mooney's. So far I've used VREF on AOPA ... any other sites that are useful ? -S

Hi Hank, Thanks for that insight I have come across some nice aircraft that have experienced a gear up landing and I wasn't sure how to view it. I also came across an aircraft the other day that had some tail damage and rather than going through the normal reporting and repair process they unbolted the tail section and bolted a new one on. An unorthodox but clever solution to perform a repair with "parts" ... too clever perhaps ? S