Dream Panel?

[Glenn]

11 minutes ago, sailon said:

I notice lots of STEC 50s in this thread.  I have an STEC 50 coupled to a GTN650.  I notice on RNAV approaches, that I am constantly overshooting (i.e., not turning fast enough) the 90 degree turn.  With GPSS steering, (forgot to mention I have Aspen glass), this puzzles me.  Is the STEC 50 or the GTN mis set?  I am entering the approach at 120 kts.  Too fast?  Thoughts?

A

You may be too fast for this segment of the approach.  The autopilot is generally limited to no more than 40 degrees or so of bank.  As your speed increases the amount of bank necessary for a standard rate turn increases as does the distance necessary to accomplish the turn.  Try a little slower.  It may work.  Please note that I am not a CFI nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

[ArtVandelay]

I notice lots of STEC 50s in this thread.  I have an STEC 50 coupled to a GTN650.  I notice on RNAV approaches, that I am constantly overshooting (i.e., not turning fast enough) the 90 degree turn.  With GPSS steering, (forgot to mention I have Aspen glass), this puzzles me.  Is the STEC 50 or the GTN mis set?  I am entering the approach at 120 kts.  Too fast?  Thoughts?

A

I have the STEC GPSS box, I overshoot a little, I am back on track within seconds, I slow down as soon as I hit the IF, by the time I make the T turn I try to be close to 100 knots, so I can be stabilized when I start the LPV GS descent. I can't get down and slow down at the same time. Are you making a standard rate turn?

[Browncbr1]

2 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I have a single Aspen, no subscriptions. (No terrain or charts)

My NAV2, a  KX 155, is coupled to the Aspen and can be selected as the input which in turn can become GPSS to the STEC50. In the pic the Aspen is using the GPS to steer with the two (out of range) VORs as RMIs but any of the 3 could be selected for CDI.

Don't know about the Brittain interface to the Aspen.

 

So, is your aspen the Evo 1000 vfr version that's about $5k?  and it's legal to fly IFR as primary?

and can you load it with terrain one time and it will continue to display terrain even if it is out of date?

[M20F-1968]

If it is helpful for you, I have a panel which I originally made using steam gauges and a King HSI to go into my F.  I was installed in the F for a ferry flight back in 2009 but then taken out as I changed the avionics to  Garmin glass.  I have the panel which I will not use.  It may save you a bunch of time and money.  I have some pictures I can send you with it

installed in the airplane with avionics.

John Breda

john.breda@gmail.com

[Jerry 5TJ]

There are some vendors starting to offer 'traditional' round instruments but with solid state internal workings in place of the old gyros and servos.   It should soon be possible to replace the "basic six" with all new electronic gauges.  If you wished to do so.

If I still had my 1964 "E" model, what would be my dream panel?   Probably G500, ESI500, GTX750 with remote transponder and audio, GDL88, WX500 Stormscope, and an Aera 660 on the yoke, plus some kind of GEM, and an STEC autopilot. All of that would just barely fit into the little panel on that plane.  I'd rip out the vacuum system (the 1964's retractable step does not need vacuum) and all existing instruments, except for the kerosene compass, I suppose.

Or I'd buy a four-decades-newer Ovation with about that same panel.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

4 hours ago, sailon said:

I notice lots of STEC 50s in this thread.  I have an STEC 50 coupled to a GTN650.  I notice on RNAV approaches, that I am constantly overshooting (i.e., not turning fast enough) the 90 degree turn.  With GPSS steering, (forgot to mention I have Aspen glass), this puzzles me.  Is the STEC 50 or the GTN mis set?  I am entering the approach at 120 kts.  Too fast?  Thoughts?

A

I have not experienced that. (STEC50, GTN 750, Aspen 1000 for GPSS). I don't think it should be speed related.

[Bob_Belville]

3 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

 

So, is your aspen the Evo 1000 vfr version that's about $5k?  and it's legal to fly IFR as primary?

and can you load it with terrain one time and it will continue to display terrain even if it is out of date?

No, I have the 1000 Pro. But the NAVDATA is in the GPS (in my case GTN750) not the Aspen. The Aspen functions as a HSI. (It does have a backup GPS which only comes into play upon ship power loss.)

An HSI does not display terrain. Neither does the Aspen PFD. (SV is an option.) Marauder, and others, who have a second Aspen have a MFD as well as a PDF. 

http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/evolution-2000

It is not necessary to have electronic approach plates, current or otherwise. You can have your paper charts or view on your phone or tablet. You do need to have current NAVDATA which is the data bases from Garmin, Jeppesen, or Seattle, etc.

[sailon]

7 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I have the STEC GPSS box, I overshoot a little, I am back on track within seconds, I slow down as soon as I hit the IF, by the time I make the T turn I try to be close to 100 knots, so I can be stabilized when I start the LPV GS descent. I can't get down and slow down at the same time. Are you making a standard rate turn?

Believe so.  Need to confirm.  I have had ATC instruct me to keep speed up over 150 kts when I flew a K model. Generally, I can slow down after I make the turn to hit Vfe and Vle.  Shouldn't the GPS time the turn based upon your speed and a standard rate turn?

 

 

Edited July 9, 2016 by sailon
Clarification

[carusoam]

check your GPS for it's turn anticipation skills and how to turn the function on.

My KLN 90B lights an annunciator, the pilot has to initiate the turn.  Works well.  Otherwise, it overshoots...

best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, sailon said: I notice lots of STEC 50s in this thread.  I have an STEC 50 coupled to a GTN650.  I notice on RNAV approaches, that I am constantly overshooting (i.e., not turning fast enough) the 90 degree turn.  With GPSS steering, (forgot to mention I have Aspen glass), this puzzles me.  Is the STEC 50 or the GTN mis set?  I am entering the approach at 120 kts.  Too fast?  Thoughts?

A

I have not experienced that. (STEC50, GTN 750, Aspen 1000 for GPSS). I don't think it should be speed related.

I notice lots of STEC 50s in this thread.  I have an STEC 50 coupled to a GTN650.  I notice on RNAV approaches, that I am constantly overshooting (i.e., not turning fast enough) the 90 degree turn.  With GPSS steering, (forgot to mention I have Aspen glass), this puzzles me.  Is the STEC 50 or the GTN mis set?  I am entering the approach at 120 kts.  Too fast?  Thoughts?

A

Check out the tail end of the video below. It shows an 80° intercept of an LPV approach at 100 knots. It flew through it a little. One thing that may be happening is the wind correction. If it is gusty, it may have miscalculated the intercept.

The other thing to check is if the STEC is In soft capture mode. If it is (most likely because you are in close to the approach course) it will not command a full standard rate turn. If you try to intercept at a higher speed and with a high intercept angle, it will fly through it a little. This is denoted by the NAV, CAP and SOFT lights illuminated.

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[carusoam]

The power of MS is impressive.

-a-

[Discus]

OK, lots of good info here, guys.  So, being "old school" I have no desire for an autopilot to fly an approach for me (follow a glide slope) but I do want to sit and munch on chips, and have it track a GPS/VOR/Localizer course.  Is the Stech 30 the one for me?  any reason to get more?

 

(Edit) I have included a pic of my current panel)

Edited July 9, 2016 by Discus

[Andy95W]

S-TEC 30, hands down.  You can pay a lot more for marginally more capability, but the 30 does exactly what you need it to do: an extra set of hands when you need to look at a chart or you need to keep from getting fatigued.  And it will track a localizer or GPS course while you handle the glide slope or descent to MDA.

And the biggest plus: if you lose your vacuum pump, it still works!  No more partial panel nightmares.

[Marauder]

OK, lots of good info here, guys.  So, being "old school" I have no desire for an autopilot to fly an approach for me (follow a glide slope) but I do want to sit and munch on chips, and have it track a GPS/VOR/Localizer course.  Is the Stech 30 the one for me?  any reason to get more?

 

(Edit) I have included a pic of my current panel)

The STEC 30 with altitude hold will do what you want. Just make certain you plan on staying "old school". Cruiser on this site upgraded his 30 to a 55X and I know the Piper guy next to me at my airport has buyer's remorse for his 30 because he wanted vertical climbs and descents after seeing it on my 60-2.

Upgrading after the install is expensive.

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[ArtVandelay]

OK, lots of good info here, guys.  So, being "old school" I have no desire for an autopilot to fly an approach for me (follow a glide slope) but I do want to sit and munch on chips, and have it track a GPS/VOR/Localizer course.  Is the Stech 30 the one for me?  any reason to get more?  

(Edit) I have included a pic of my current panel)

The STEC 30 with altitude hold will do what you want. Just make certain you plan on staying "old school". Cruiser on this site upgraded his 30 to a 55X and I know the Piper guy next to me at my airport has buyer's remorse for his 30 because he wanted vertical climbs and descents after seeing it on my 60-2.

Upgrading after the install is expensive.

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Does 60-2 capture glide slopes as well?

It seems to me that a 30/50 to 60 upgrade should be an easy upgrade, unlike 55 is fits in the same hole. Assuming you already have electric trim, GPSS I would expect labor to take less than 10 hrs. If they're going to have that attitude, it makes the DFC90 even more desirable when it ever gets approved.

[Marauder]

OK, lots of good info here, guys.  So, being "old school" I have no desire for an autopilot to fly an approach for me (follow a glide slope) but I do want to sit and munch on chips, and have it track a GPS/VOR/Localizer course.  Is the Stech 30 the one for me?  any reason to get more?   (Edit) I have included a pic of my current panel)

The STEC 30 with altitude hold will do what you want. Just make certain you plan on staying "old school". Cruiser on this site upgraded his 30 to a 55X and I know the Piper guy next to me at my airport has buyer's remorse for his 30 because he wanted vertical climbs and descents after seeing it on my 60-2. Upgrading after the install is expensive.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Does 60-2 capture glide slopes as well?

It seems to me that a 30/50 to 60 upgrade should be an easy upgrade, unlike 55 is fits in the same hole. Assuming you already have electric trim, GPSS I would expect labor to take less than 10 hrs. If they're going to have that attitude, it makes the DFC90 even more desirable when it ever gets approved.

The 60-2 will capture and track a glideslope. I have electric trim, it was an option. The guy I mentioned above attempted to do exactly that. He first approached STEC to see if they would do a trade-in in his 2 month old STEC 30. They would, but only offered $1500 for the entire system. And they gave him no price break on the 55X he wanted to replace it with (hence my warning above about being certain what you bought).

I am curious how Cruiser pulled it off. Since he is re-using the servos and only has the computer for sale. STEC has a great product but they can be hard to deal with to obtain the paperwork to certify the system.

I spoke to STEC when a member on this site purchased a 60-2 off of the Internet. STEC required the components be returned so they could test and re-certify each component before issuing another STC at a cost. The final cost was staggering.

I would love to make the jump to the DFC 90. It has a lot to offer in additional features.

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[ArtVandelay]

The only problem with the 6" wide format is I would have to move the AP control to the right stack, where right now it's right in front of me, Marauder I think you would have the same problem. I would definitely need to add a disconnect switch, and I guess the Aspen controls the GPSS, but anything else requires a reach.

[Marauder]

4 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

The only problem with the 6" wide format is I would have to move the AP control to the right stack, where right now it's right in front of me, Marauder I think you would have the same problem. I would definitely need to add a disconnect switch, and I guess the Aspen controls the GPSS, but anything else requires a reach.

I looked into upgrading to the 55 and later to the 55X (just for the altitude pre-select) but was told by two shops the 60-2 has a better computer and tracks better than either of the 55 products. Not sure it is true, but they both didn't think it was worthwhile upgrading. When I heard about the possibility of the DFC90, I drop all thoughts of upgrading with another STEC.

In our planes, it would require some moving around of stuff to keep it in the center stack.

[Browncbr1]

If you go with stec, be damn sure you get what you will stay with.  The secondary market is almost nothing because of the rediculous stc transfer and required yellow tagging from stec.  

Edited July 9, 2016 by Browncbr1

[sailon]

1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

I fly ifr nearly always and the one thing my KFC150 does not have but i would love is vertical speed control and altitiude preselect.   If when choosing an autopilot you can afford it, SERIOUSLY consider adding this capability, it will make your life so much eaiser and almost airliner like.  

Note the KFC150 does fly a glideslope and i love this feature also and would not be without.  The other feature i would not be without is a flight director, if you can get one, get one.  You can then handfly everything but the AI tells you what to do, it makes hand approaches a lot easier.

Actually the KFC 150 does have a crude vertical speed capability.  Depress and Hold the down button and it will maintain a nice 500 ft per minute descent.  Used one on the 252 I fly occasionally.

[DXB]

15 hours ago, Discus said:

OK, lots of good info here, guys.  So, being "old school" I have no desire for an autopilot to fly an approach for me (follow a glide slope) but I do want to sit and munch on chips, and have it track a GPS/VOR/Localizer course.  Is the Stech 30 the one for me?  any reason to get more?

The STEC 30 will definitely do those things with excellence, and hold altitude (AKA Chip Eating Mode).  It will also hold a set heading and let you manually change that heading in flight while still engaged.  Or it will simply hold wings level or at a particular bank angle, if that's all you want.  It will not do anything more. The price jump up to a more capable autopilot would have been at least an additional 10K. As someone with no autopilot experience previously, the STEC-30 w/ GPSS seemed amazing after getting it installed.  

[PTK]

1 hour ago, sailon said:

Actually the KFC 150 does have a crude vertical speed capability.  Depress and Hold the down button and it will maintain a nice 500 ft per minute descent.  Used one on the 252 I fly occasionally.

That's right. When the ALT mode is on the vertical trim switch adjusts ALTITUDE at a maximum rate of 500 fpm.

When ALT mode is off the vertical trim switch adjusts PITCH at just under 1 deg/sec. (0.7 as per POH.)

[Danb]

Marauder stated stec is hard to deal with:

thats an understatement yrs ago I had multiple problems with my 55X, computer and servos. It took almost 2 yrs and 5-6 visits and shipments to stec for them to corrects problems with there computer board and servos. They held me hostage at one point. Excellent product when working a nightmare when they have difficulty diagnosing and repair/replacing there equipment.

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, Danb said:

Marauder stated stec is hard to deal with:

thats an understatement yrs ago I had multiple problems with my 55X, computer and servos. It took almost 2 yrs and 5-6 visits and shipments to stec for them to corrects problems with there computer board and servos. They held me hostage at one point. Excellent product when working a nightmare when they have difficulty diagnosing and repair/replacing there equipment.

I'm hoping things have changed with the ownership change.

[Danb]

All has been good, off to Longview next week, hoping for No surprises