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I'm off for the dreaded 44709 check ride tomorrow!

RocketAviator

By RocketAviator
in General Mooney Talk

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RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

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It sounds to me like he is trying to leave you a out by letting you go back through your logs and verify. Surely you must have accidentally left something on at some point or perhaps extremely long runups.

The pipes would have been looked at as the engine was reinstalled, but they wouldn't have necessary made the log entry for the AD.

I hope so, I am working on it.

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RocketAviator
RocketAviator

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into servi

Marauder
Marauder

And they want to know why the pilot population is diminishing... Just reading this thread is making me sick.

jaylw314
jaylw314

While it's concerning that we haven't heard the process being approached like a training and remediation opportunity, which is supposed to be the approach of the new-fangled FAA, I would hardly call a

RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

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Fishing expedition.  Investigation over a gear up landing turns into a separate matter over an AD.   OK, here's something. The FAA's own AC 43-9 says tach time is only an approximation of time in service.   Read this:

 

"8.
RECORDING TACHOMETERS.
a. Time-in-service recording devices sense such things as electrical power on, oil pressure, wheels on the ground, etc. ,and from these conditions provide an indication of time-in-service. With the exception of those that sense aircraft lift-off and touchdown,the indications are approximate.
 
b. Some owners and operators mistakenly believe these  devices may be used in lieu of keeeing time-in-service in the maintenance record. While they are of great assistance in arriving at the time-in-service, such instruments, alone, do not meet the requirements of section 91.417.
For example, when the device fails and requires change, it is necessary to enter time-in-service and the instrument reading at the change. Otherwise, record continuity is lost. "

 

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/cfb1221d9b8038b9862569c40075c77f/$FILE/AC43-9C.pdf

 

I can totally see how a conscientious and cautious safe pilot takes extra time to taxi out and do a good warmup period and runup (none of which is time-in-service), then crusies at maximum RPM (Such as 2625) even though he has a 2300 RPM recording tachometer.  The tach time recorded can exceed the actual flight time. Want more proof? I have a log sheet from my plane where the tach time EXCEEDS the hobbs time.  Lacee, PM me, this isn't over.

 

Byron

Byron,

Understand, will check out your link.  The FAA guys also gave me the following to look up.... maybe trying to help out a little, who knows!

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=14:1.0.1.1.1.0.1.1&idno=14

Time in service, with respect to maintenance time records, means the time from the moment an aircraft leaves the surface of the earth until it touches it at the next point of landing.

 

I just completed a complete recreation of the in service log backed up by my log book entries, flightaware history and a partial backup from my Garmin 696 (until I sold the darn thing a few weeks back...) in any case it looks like I can support an in service position of less than the 50 hrs which the AD requires, according to the rule above with backup!  However the more I am into this the more I just want to say take this mess, it is just not worth all the fight!

 

Staying in ABQ tonight, considering going to see the Maintenance FSDO tomorrow if he will see me and show him what I have worked up and see if I can get a read on his thoughts.  Also waiting on Counsel to advise.

 

I have had enough for the night, I'm done for the night.   Give me a call tomorrow on my cell if you like. 

Thanks again for all your support,

Lacee

mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

Posted
Posted

Yes they knew from the beginning there was a CFI it as in the original report and the FSDO mentioned it again today.  And yes I filled a NASA safety report.

 

I can only hope for his sake they are not approaching this like the IRS would. Going thru to build a case against him.

Danb Grand Master

Danb

Posted
Posted

Lacee,  Unbelievable  hope you the best I do IRS work and hopefully they are not approaching this like an audit, seems like they are..My advice to clients are to be cool say as little as possible since usually you hang yourself with you own rope, if you go to the  maint. FSDO say as little as possible keep cool and let them know you are a responsible individual and will supply any req'd info., and pleasantly get out of dodge....seriously good luck...Dan

TWinter Veteran

TWinter

Posted
Posted

I agree..very disappointed in the direction this investigation is headed. Very hard to enjoy and promote GA when it appears that "they" are fishing for problems and not looking for case closure. Would be nice to see them work with us and find a satisfactory conclusion and closure of the incident instead of working against us. 

  • Like 1
aaronk25 Veteran

aaronk25

Posted
Posted

So sorry to hear this, Lacee.

Note to self. If ever in this situation, take check ride in rental aircraft.

Jim

Ya except the same happened to me bit it was in willmar air service rental 201, post Bruce jagger. Showed up to my 709 wheels up ride but I failed to check the registration prior to showing up (I know stupid move) and all it had in it was a pink temporary certificate from 4 years ago.

The fsdo people took me into a room and chewed my ass for a hour and made me wait another hour just to tell me because I had a good attitude that they weren't going to do any enforcement action however I needed to get a ferry permit to fly plane back and had to have a mechanic drive 45mins to issue the ferry permit.

The fsdo also wanted to see paperwork that showed where I could remove one rear seat put of the plane, as willmar had it out because they transport ferry props in it.

That was my experience with dupage FSDO near Chicago.

RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

Posted
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Posted

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into service after the incident. used Byron's & others tips & copied all the applicable FAA regs, called the flight Services Director this morning, requested a meeting, submitted my information and they accepted it, so i am done...everything settled. Headed home, glad to have this mess behind me!

Thanks again for everyones great support,

Fly safe

Sorry typed from phone....

Thanks again all!

  • Like 9
RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into service after the incident. used Byron's & others tips & copied all the applicable FAA regs, called the flight Services Director this morning, requested a meeting, submitted my information and they accepted it, so i am done...everything settled. Headed home, glad to have this mess behind me!

Thanks again for everyones great support,

Fly safe

Sorry typed from phone....

Thanks again all!

  • Like 2
Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into service after the incident. used Byron's & others tips & copied all the applicable FAA regs, called the flight Services Director this morning, requested a meeting, submitted my information and they accepted it, so i am done...everything settled. Headed home, glad to have this mess behind me!

Thanks again for everyones great support,

Fly safe

Sorry typed from phone....

Thanks again all!

 

 

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into service after the incident. used Byron's & others tips & copied all the applicable FAA regs, called the flight Services Director this morning, requested a meeting, submitted my information and they accepted it, so i am done...everything settled. Headed home, glad to have this mess behind me!

Thanks again for everyones great support,

Fly safe

Sorry typed from phone....

Thanks again all!

 

 

Good to hear! But it sounds like you picked up a stuttering problem!

mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

Posted
Posted

Whoo hoo, stayed up until 4 a.m. This morning, reviewed all my flight time and all my maintenance information. recreated a complete in service log from the time the aircraft was put back into service after the incident. used Byron's & others tips & copied all the applicable FAA regs, called the flight Services Director this morning, requested a meeting, submitted my information and they accepted it, so i am done...everything settled. Headed home, glad to have this mess behind me!

Thanks again for everyones great support,

Fly safe

Sorry typed from phone....

Thanks again all!

 

 

Great News, Lacee! Congrats!

  • Like 1
N33GG Mentor

N33GG

Posted
Posted

Congrats!  Now shake it off and get back in the air.

 

But be aware that they will likely keep this on file for 5 years, and you really don't want to get to see them again any time soon.

 

I went through one of these check rides many years ago for riding in the right seat as a CFII/MEI and had the VERY EXPERIENCED pilot in the left seat pull the gear up after landing, instead of the flaps (in fact, he had already raised the flaps, and we were taxiing).  He walked away clean, and the FAA dumped on me as the CFI.  Reading this thread brings back a lot of painful memories.

 

Again, glad you got through it OK!

mike_elliott Grand Master

mike_elliott

Posted
Posted

Congrats!  Now shake it off and get back in the air.

 

But be aware that they will likely keep this on file for 5 years, and you really don't want to get to see them again any time soon.

 

I went through one of these check rides many years ago for riding in the right seat as a CFII/MEI and had the VERY EXPERIENCED pilot in the left seat pull the gear up after landing, instead of the flaps (in fact, he had already raised the flaps, and we were taxiing).  He walked away clean, and the FAA dumped on me as the CFI.  Reading this thread brings back a lot of painful memories.

 

Again, glad you got through it OK!

 

Im glad YOUR OK N6719N! Still instructing? I know a number of instructors who said "it aint worth it" because of things like insurance repercussions, FAA actions, lawsuits, etc. I'm pretty picky now because of it all, and I have not experienced the dark side of anything yet.

  • Like 1
RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Good to hear! But it sounds like you picked up a stuttering problem!

Hey now there Marauder after all of this I feel very fortunate to have not pic picked picked picked u.....up more than a little studddddering p.pppproblme.

 

Sorry must have had an IO problem... (idiot operator that is)

  • Like 1
RocketAviator Mentor

RocketAviator

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Congrats!  Now shake it off and get back in the air.

 

But be aware that they will likely keep this on file for 5 years, and you really don't want to get to see them again any time soon.

 

I went through one of these check rides many years ago for riding in the right seat as a CFII/MEI and had the VERY EXPERIENCED pilot in the left seat pull the gear up after landing, instead of the flaps (in fact, he had already raised the flaps, and we were taxiing).  He walked away clean, and the FAA dumped on me as the CFI.  Reading this thread brings back a lot of painful memories.

 

Again, glad you got through it OK!

Agreed, lets move on and thanks!

PTK Grand Master

PTK

Posted
Posted

Great job Lacee! I had every confidence this would turn out ok!

The good folks at the FAA may not be very popular when stressful things like this happen, but at the end of the day they're just doing their job.

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