Instrument rating in a week

[Jamie]

Ok, I admit up front I'm frustrated with how long it's taking to get the 10 hours of dual I need to be solo in my new Mooney (between work schedules and the #$%@#$ weather...). I'm sure that colors the following.

 

But.

 

I've been extrapolating the current rate (hours / week.... and weeks / hour seems more appropriate) and it'll take approximately forever to get an instrument rating. Worse, the time between lessons is affecting retention, which sets me back even further. And this is just for private pilot stuff in the new plane.

 

So I was wondering if anyone had any experience with one of those accelerated IFR courses. You know... they come to you, you do it in your plane, you take a week or so off from work and this is all you do. I figure if I prepared before the course and maybe even had some instruction then the course would be a quick way to finish up AND learn more. I think if I do this right, doing it all at once might make me more proficient than dragging it out over 3-6 months.

 

Thoughts?

[DrBill]

I did mine in 6 weeks flying 6hr/week or more. Got the written out of the way (which I believe is required for the FAST TRACK TOO), then found an instructor who would fly every weekday at 0700 or earlier. The second day was IMC and off we went. Weather did not bother us again. Luckily the Tstorms are mostly in the afternoon so mornings were rain and fog and low clouds. I really enjoyed it and got a LOT of actual IMC durin those weeks.

Bill

[rainman]

I used the King DVD set to study for and pass the written, then after some frustrating starts and stops at my home base, I went to Accelerated Flight Training at Long Beach in California. My instructor Marcel, did a great job and arranged for a local examiner. It was intense, but I passed and really learned a ton. The advise I was given after that was to use the system as much as possible. That's not the time to be learning your airplane. If you're not comfortable with your Mooney, consider using their Cessna. My 2 cents on my experience for last summer. Ray

[201er]

First of all I think it's a good idea to get a bunch of VFR and VFR cross country experience before even attempting the instrument rating. It's hard enough flying the plane as it is, that's gotta be second nature when you're in the soup. Next, if I remember correctly, you're required to have 50 hours of cross country to even qualify for an instrument rating (and in reality I think 100-200 is a better amount). Lastly, this stuff is so hard, it just takes time to sink in. Sometimes you need a little time off and a break from it. To do it in a single week, or even month for that matter, is practically suicide. Really. Either you blow up from the pressure/difficulty doing it. Or you pass the rating but don't have the long term practice to really know what you're doing. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me. You need time to learn weather and flying first and then when you do attempt the instrument training, you need time to let it sink in. What's the point of rushing it?

[FloridaMan]

I'm assuming the original poster is talking about the 10 hours of dual for insurance, not PPL stuff. 

 

I did mine in a month immediately after finishing my PPL. My thoughts are that you should get your IFR certs ASAP, but keep *very* conservative minimums. 3000ft ceilings, punch through a cloud here or there, continue to shoot approaches and execute holds to stay current. I had my IFR rating for 3 years and around 400 hours before shooting my first approach down to minimums in actual. The training is invaluable if, say, you're flying and you get a sprinkle of rain that ends up with the sky descending onto you and you find yourself in inadvertent IMC. Or, at night, if the same things happen. I've found that here in FL it can be reported VMC all over the state, but when you cross over the unpopulated areas with no reporting over swampland, you can find yourself in IMC (JFK Jr. weather) with only seconds of warning. The "standard rate 180 degree turn" they teach you in your PPL to get out of weather is also highly likely to induce "pilot's vertigo" or "the leans" where you feel like you're in a spiraling descend when you roll out of the turn. That whole thing where you're taught to "trust your instruments" gets a whole new meaning when your senses are actively telling you that you're not doing what your instruments say you are. 

 

My thoughts are also that night flying over unpopulated areas is instrument flying. 

 

I found that flying the Mooney "under the hood" was much more difficult than the DA40 I got my instrument rating in. Things happen a lot faster and you've got to stay on top of your scan. 

[carusoam]

I used American Flyers for that situation... They have multiple locations. And a web site...

Used a month or so for realistic approach. A few times per week.

Best regards,

-a-

[Nopo]

Call Bill Zalesky. Instrumentratings.com. You will thank me for the advice. He's the best. My 0.02.

[dcrogers11]

I'm scheduled to do the accelerated IFR course with PIC (Professional Instrument Courses) in October.  I think it is a good plan although I've had concerns about the amount of information and flying done in a short time and the retention of that information and experience.  I've got a lot of cross country time and have about 15 hours under the hood when I started my IFR training.  With my busy schedule, this just seemed to fit what my plans were. PIC says that they have a high first time pass rate percentage (I think 90%) so I think its going to be a good fit for me.  I hope it works out for you.  

 

Don

[bd32322]

I'm assuming the original poster is talking about the 10 hours of dual for insurance, not PPL stuff. 

 

I did mine in a month immediately after finishing my PPL. My thoughts are that you should get your IFR certs ASAP, but keep *very* conservative minimums. 3000ft ceilings, punch through a cloud here or there, continue to shoot approaches and execute holds to stay current. I had my IFR rating for 3 years and around 400 hours before shooting my first approach down to minimums in actual. The training is invaluable if, say, you're flying and you get a sprinkle of rain that ends up with the sky descending onto you and you find yourself in inadvertent IMC. Or, at night, if the same things happen. I've found that here in FL it can be reported VMC all over the state, but when you cross over the unpopulated areas with no reporting over swampland, you can find yourself in IMC (JFK Jr. weather) with only seconds of warning. The "standard rate 180 degree turn" they teach you in your PPL to get out of weather is also highly likely to induce "pilot's vertigo" or "the leans" where you feel like you're in a spiraling descend when you roll out of the turn. That whole thing where you're taught to "trust your instruments" gets a whole new meaning when your senses are actively telling you that you're not doing what your instruments say you are. 

 

My thoughts are also that night flying over unpopulated areas is instrument flying. 

 

I found that flying the Mooney "under the hood" was much more difficult than the DA40 I got my instrument rating in. Things happen a lot faster and you've got to stay on top of your scan. 

I agree .. Get the instrument rating ASAP. I dont see a need for more cross country experience before learning a completely orthogonal set of skills (flying by instruments) that will make literally save your life some day if you do any real cross country.

[bd32322]

As for accelerated training .. I highly recommend it. Like the OP mentioned, retention is key. However, my instrument training wasnt quite that accelerated. I took 6-8 weeks and tried to fly as often as I could - which turned out to be about 4 -5 das a week. Retention was excellent and the learning much less frustrating than what it could have been.

I am not completely sure about a really compressed schedule like 2 weeks. Maybe it will be overwhelming?

[rbridges]

I know nothing about the accelerated courses, but you're 100% correct.  You need to practice your instrument training on a consistent basis.  Otherwise, you spend time relearning stuff.  Going twice a week, it still took me 5 months.  

[N33GG]

The purpose of instrument training is to learn new skills to safely exercise new privileges. There are no awards for being the fastest to get your instrument rating. While I know the total immersion approach is fast and gets your rating, the process of flying instruments involves a broad array of situations that requires time to cover thoroughly. If you do the accelerated program, you will likely have a few voids that need additional training before you jump in to complex IMC. Getting a rating is great, but it is no substitute for experience.

[triple8s]

I have been flying since 1996 took a very long time to get my PPL and this was largely do to my lack of funds and a wife which had more important things for me to do on all my days off and after worktime. In 1999 I got rid of her and got my PPL, took me 4 CfI's.  Instructors, there are instructors that have a rating and there are those that are actually teachers, I have been through 5 instructors over the last 17 years and I have to say the last one taught me there is a HUGE difference. John, my last one, he is mid to late 60's, has flown all his life in south Florida then in the Navy. Flew off of carriers and over southeast Asia, from there he was instructor for the Navy. He knows how to teach. After he got out of the Navy he went to work for Eastern Airlines, this guy is the real deal, he is a hard ass too. When I finished my instrument checkride the DPE told me that was a very good check ride. So to make a long story short, choose an instructor wisely, there is a difference, and imerse yourself in the material. Soon as you are ready for the written get it out of the way. Try to be ready for the check ride with in a month or two after the written. If you wait too long between you'll forget some of the material when check ride come around. I took my training in a C172 because things happen fast in the Mooney and also at the time I didnt have really good equipment in my bird and John has good equipment. Simulators, John is a BIG believer in them he makes less money when they are used but I have seen what a difference they make, when you are in a SIM and something comes up we hit the pause button and talk about it. You cant hit pause in the plane. I really cant imagine learning something so important from anyone else, I would really scrutinize my next CFI if I ever had to choose a new one. John is so different, everything is...checklist, proceedure, by the book. After preflight and run up he teaches to do the IFR preflight using the "walk across the audio panel" method, I had never heard this before. I wish I had learned my primary instruction from him.  

 Another thing I did, I bought a flight sim for home. I can plan a flight, fly the plan and shoot the approaches. I have done this before taking trips and I did it before my IFR checkride. I have the yoke, radio panel, throttle quadrant, rudder pedals, and instrument panel. This for me is very valuable because you retain the frequencies (some of them) and IMHO if you dont almost know the frequencies and altitudes for the approach before you fly it? You wont have time to look at the chart and fly the plane, especially a Mooney, things happen fast. a Flight SIM at home will help you here. After you get your ticket you can use the SIM to fly the trips before you actually go, I even printed out the flight plan and took it with me on the actual flight. I have rambled on enough I guess I just cant say enough about the importance of the instructor, a good one will prepare you a bad one will give you a license to go out and get you and or your family and friends killed.

[PTK]

Alot of good points made here.

Imagine yourself Jamie that you took an accelerated instruments training and two weeks from now you have your ticket. What do you do? In other words how much better will your instrument skills be from today? (The answer is not "i'll file ifr when vfr") And if you can't find time to train today how will you find the time to stay current?

Imo instruments should not and cannot be rushed. The purpose is defeated. If I could have it my way i would restructure pilot training. I truly believe that it's backwards the way we have it presently. I would institute IFR and eliminate vfr. All pilots would be and should be instrument pilots because instrument flying is what we do. It has to be as someone said, second nature and the central focus. Not an afterthought that we do quickly just to get it out of the way.

What I would do is I'd rearrange my schedule and find some time, a few hours each week to dedicate to instruments. Find a competent instructor who can work with you and most importantly will fly with you in actual. I wouldn't rush this just to get the ticket.

[gjkirsch]

I went to sheble aviation for a 10 day course almost 20 years ago.  I only needed to take a week off work since they work 7 days a week.  The biggest mistake I made was going in early summer were you could only fly in the morning because of the heat and termals that developed by noon and made it pratically impossible to hold altitude.  At the time, they would train you in either your plane or theirs. 

 

 

http://shebleaviation.com/

[201er]

You wont have time to look at the chart and fly the plane, especially a Mooney, things happen fast. a Flight SIM at home will help you here. After you get your ticket you can use the SIM to fly the trips before you actually go, I even printed out the flight plan and took it with me on the actual flight.

No offense, but this does not sound like good advice to me. First off, you can slow down a Mooney when flying approaches (or in trouble) to give yourself more time to think. You can fly a stable approach at 90 knots if you prepare for it and slow down ahead of time! But when it comes to not having time to look at the chart and requiring extensive approach preparation ahead of time, I can see this getting someone in trouble when things don't go as planned. Wx is bad or airport is closed after accident, need to divert to an airport 5 miles away, only 1 minute enroute to prepare for new approach, gotta get on it, not much fuel left, etc. I don't think it's a bad idea to play with the sim when you are learning and before you actually start doing the real stuff. But by the time you're doing the real stuff, you should be able to pull out an approach chart you've never seen before in your life and fly that approach right there and then!

 

When I practice approaches to stay current, I'll fly back to back approaches at nearby airports. Some of them I may look at in advance while others I pick as I'm doing another. This helps me prepare for the unexpected. You don't always get to fly the approach you briefed or practiced for. Just my four half pennies.

 

And as for mr dentist, are you nuts!? There are already a ton of guys who can't manage stick and rudder and crash in the pattern.... and you want to burden them with instrument flying first? You want to make it 3x times longer and harder to get PPL? Why put the cart before the horse? There are plenty of people who've flown exclusively VFR for many years without any problems. I agree that a healthier fear of IMC must be instilled in VFR pilots (and sometimes IFR pilots too!), but that doesn't mean you can't fly VFR and stay out of the soup just fine. Back when I was flying skyhawks, inadvertent flight into IMC was virtually impossible. I'd pick clear days and my "long" cross countries were only like 100 miles so the weather doesn't change any in that sort of distance. Since I've been flying the Mooney though, distances have drastically increased and it's not uncommon for me to fly through two or three different weather systems enroute. Just because it is prudent to be instrument rated in a Mooney (cirrus and other fast/complex planes for that matter), doesn't mean every piper cub and skyhawk beginner needs to prioritize that!

 

Hope to see you at Sky Manor around noon today for lunch and friendly chat

[Hank]

I went the traditional route, with an experienced CFII/airline pilot. Because my plan was to increase utilization of the plane, techniques and procedures were drilled to become second nature. I was already comfortable flying "in the system" with a couple hundred hours XC (ranging from my typical 300nm to 1300 nm each way). It takes time and practice to develop a good scan and learn which instrument to look at when. Rote memorization of which one is primary and secondary in which situation is not enough.

Most of the accelerated courses I've seen advertise themselves as "finish up" courses, and I think that may be a better, safer use than trying to knock out the whole thing from scratch in a couple of weeks.

[PTK]

...are you nuts!? There are already a ton of guys who can't manage stick and rudder and crash in the pattern.... and you want to burden them with instrument flying first?

Hope to see you at Sky Manor around noon today for lunch and friendly chat

Yes Mike. What's nuts is regarding instrument training as a "burden" and rushing through it for the sole purpose of getting the ticket. I'm not saying totally disregard basic training. I'm saying, at some early point of pilot training, the focus needs to shift to where it belongs, instrument training with all pilots graduating with an instrument ticket. We need to eliminate the vfr vs ifr pilot distinction. All will be instrument rated pilots.

What's nuts is the status quo. We allow this notion that jumping in the airplane is like jumping in a car. We allow vfr only with what, three hours hood time as protection against inadvertent imc? And then when some poor soul loses an airplane and lives are lost, we wonder what happened. As if some standard rate turns and some unusual attitudes is protection enough! Now that's nuts if you ask me!

I sent you text message yesterday.

[1964-M20E]

You say you are still working on the 10hrs to solo your Mooney.  Know your plane well before you start the instrument training.  This was my path and I had owned my Mooney for a little more than 1 year before I officially started and prior to that I had been out of flying for about 15 years.

 

1. Start by studying the approach plates and low altitude enroute charts and learning what all the symbols mean.
2. Use radio navigation (VOR, GPS and ADF if you have it) and low altitude charts for VFR flying keeping the VFR charts handy as well
3. Do not rely solely on GPS
4. Go out and fly approaches at non towered airports on your own in VFR conditions.  Do several short cross country flights and shoot an approach to each in VFR.
5. Use a good home computer flight simulator to see how approaches work again this gets you knowing what to expect.  Fly the approaches to airports you will visit
6. Get used to setting the plane up for the approach by your self in VFR conditions. It will be different when practicing with ATC and a tower doing multiple approaches in one session but you will know how to set up your plane’s avionics for the approach and you will know how the gauges react.
7. Learn you aircraft power settings for approaches
8. Get one of the video courses and start watching it whenever you have the chance and watch it multiple times
9. Get several books in IR procedures, maneuvers etc and start reading about it
10. After several months with the above 7 steps find an instructor and start training
11. Make a commitment to do the training and let only real necessities distract you from that training.  Tell your family you are training educating yourself whatever and that you may not be fully available for other things during that time.
12. Go to the instructor prepared for IR training and it will go easier and faster.  Help him help you.
13. You need to know your airplane like a pianist knows the keyboard on a piano.  Do not expect the instructor to know how your plane operates or how to set up the GPS for an approach.
14. Radio communications with ATC in the IFR environment will be different in the information ATC is relaying to you and what you are relaying back to ATC as opposed to VFR flight following or Class B operations.
15. Get in the air with the instructor and start flying after about 10 hours dual begin studying in earnest for the written and take the written after about 30 hours of IR training.  This works for me because I can relate practical experience with the book work.
16. Set a goal of how long you want to take to get your IR.  Mine was 5 months factoring in work and other activities.  It took me 6 months so I was not far off.

[triple8s]

I agree, partly, however I am not advocating flying the approach by memory and without a plate open and on the board, just that you should know the intended approach, then if you need to divert you arent trying to read the missed approach proceedure while flipping to the alternate plate and making all the changes to the plan. I am saying EVERYTHING that can be done to prepare outside of the airplane, before take-off will only reduce the workload even if you do have to go to the alternate. And the sim? Well, like them or not, for me, if I can fly the approach, in realtime weather or weather of my choosing, practice system failures, or almost any scenario you could face all without risk. Anyhow there are many choices out there for training and.....the most important thing IMHO is to choose an instructor that IS a teacher. That was the point I wanted to get across, dont let the dollar or time decide for you, get a good one.

[pirate]

Many years ago I did the 10 day American Flyers IFR course, I strongly recommend them.

I believe they now have a 5 day course.

[PTK]

Many years ago I did the 10 day American Flyers IFR course, I strongly recommend them.

I believe they now have a 5 day course.

Soon there'll be a 2 day Saturday & Sunday course. The Weekend Flyers! Who knows maybe even an app to go on the iPad:

"IFR ticket from the comfort of your own home!"

[chrisk]

Like the origional poster, I had too many demands with work and home life.   I took weeks off and left town.   10 days into it, I was taking my check ride.  Being away from home (and work) was great for focus, but it did put pressure on me to do well with the check ride.  I was also very happy with the experiences gained.  I ended up with about 20 hours of real IMC and got to experience ice a few times.

 

For advice, get the written test done before you put the effort/time into "in the air" training.

[danb35]

I note that all of the nay-sayers on the immersion-type courses appear to people who haven't taken one.  I'd suggest the OP take that into account when considering their remarks about such courses.

[bd32322]

I agree, partly, however I am not advocating flying the approach by memory and without a plate open and on the board, just that you should know the intended approach, then if you need to divert you arent trying to read the missed approach proceedure while flipping to the alternate plate and making all the changes to the plan. I am saying EVERYTHING that can be done to prepare outside of the airplane, before take-off will only reduce the workload even if you do have to go to the alternate. And the sim? Well, like them or not, for me, if I can fly the approach, in realtime weather or weather of my choosing, practice system failures, or almost any scenario you could face all without risk. Anyhow there are many choices out there for training and.....the most important thing IMHO is to choose an instructor that IS a teacher. That was the point I wanted to get across, dont let the dollar or time decide for you, get a good one.

I have to agree about the sim! Yes, like 201er mentions, one should be able to take any approach chart and fly it then and there. But that should not be the first and only way.

It makes a lot of sense to pre-brief the approaches at home and what better way than a sim. Most of the time it turns out to be mundane but sometimes not.