I really messed up... misjudged winds and tried to land in the wrong direction...

[Oscar Avalle]

Sometimes you mess up... and I have to admit that in this video I am not at my best... I flew to a recently paved airport and wanted to be among the first ones to land there. However when I got there I noticed that the windsock was missing. I relied on the winds at 1,200 feet and decided to land based on my gut feeling. Well, I WAS WRONG! The winds were coming from exaclty the opposite direction. I bounced and had to go around... You train for it, but seldom you have to do it for real... this time it was for real. Additionally, there were some trees at the end of the runway that looked much taller than they really were...

Hope you enjoy it... and don't be to tough on me... I already chuwed myself up...

Oscar

 

[201er]

That’s some FOD on that runway! You sure that’s a good idea regardless of the wind direction?? 

[redbaron1982]

Good call on going around! Don't forget to retract the landing gear! Remember: power, right rudder, trim down, gear up, take off flaps

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Sometimes you mess up... and I have to admit that in this video I am not at my best... I flew to a recently paved airport and wanted to be among the first ones to land there. However when I got there I noticed that the windsock was missing. I relied on the winds at 1,200 feet and decided to land based on my gut feeling. Well, I WAS WRONG! The winds were coming from exaclty the opposite direction. I bounced and had to go around... You train for it, but seldom you have to do it for real... this time it was for real. Additionally, there were some trees at the end of the runway that looked much taller than they really were...

Hope you enjoy it... and don't be to tough on me... I already chuwed myself up...

Oscar

 

Thanks for sharing!  Beautiful place there, plane too!

[Oscar Avalle]

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name="[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]er" userid="[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]"] That’s some FOD on that runway! You sure that’s a good idea regardless of the wind direction?? [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]

Actually, it is what you get and this is a brand new recently paved runway. They still need to paint the numbers and markings. Once you fly around here your standards have to adjust.

But I agree there was a lot of FOD. But at least no dogs, chicken, goats or people…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[201Steve]

All that water around you, a great reference for wind speed and direction. One of the benefits of training seaplane. 

[dkkim73]

10 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Thanks for sharing!  Beautiful place there, plane too!

Yeah that looks like a challenging strip and a nice destination! 

[N201MKTurbo]

Once back in '85 I flew to Lander WY for work. For some reason I had to fly over to Riverton and then back to Lander. It isn't very far. When I got back to Lander I tried to land on the same runway I left on. Well, as I was flaring I noticed I was 3/4 of the way to the end and moving very fast. I went around and actually looked at the windsock. The wind had shifted 180 degrees and picked up. I haven't made that mistake since.

[Danb]

18 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

Sometimes you mess up... and I have to admit that in this video I am not at my best... I flew to a recently paved airport and wanted to be among the first ones to land there. However when I got there I noticed that the windsock was missing. I relied on the winds at 1,200 feet and decided to land based on my gut feeling. Well, I WAS WRONG! The winds were coming from exaclty the opposite direction. I bounced and had to go around... You train for it, but seldom you have to do it for real... this time it was for real. Additionally, there were some trees at the end of the runway that looked much taller than they really were...

Hope you enjoy it... and don't be to tough on me... I already chuwed myself up...

Oscar

 

Beautiful country, good job recognizing before next bounce did I mention beautiful 

[Echo]

I did four touch and go landings when we had a 55 degree day in Dec.  overcast at 1600. I left gear down. My plane climbs great initially with gear down. 

[Hank]

Great video, Oscar! You could produce videos as a side gig!

One quick question, since we both fly similar C models (minus your glorious panel ). I believe we can learn from each other, and I noticed your procedures have one significant difference from mine--when we lower the gear.

I lower my gear on downwind, abeam my intended point of landing, and with a throttle reduction it initiates my descent to the runway. On your first attempt, you lowered your gear early on the upwind leg, and the second time I could not spot the field. 

This post inspired me to review my Owners Manual, and it gives no guidance on lowering the gear other than below 120 mph. I must have picked up my habit from my Mooney Transition Instructor lo these many years ago, but my memory is not very clear on that (although my C was also my introduction to complex airplanes, so I had no previous habits).

So I'm just curious, what is your "signal" to lower the gear, and where did you learn that?

[201er]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I lower my gear on downwind, abeam my intended point of landing, and with a throttle reduction it initiates my descent to the runway.

I didn't know there was any other way coming in from a downwind. Increased risk of forgetting if not for the reminder that abeam numbers gear comes down.

[skykrawler]

On 1/10/2025 at 12:27 AM, redbaron1982 said:

Good call on going around! Don't forget to retract the landing gear! Remember: power, right rudder, trim down, gear up, take off flaps

Respectfully disagree with that order.    The flaps should be changed BEFORE the gear is raised.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, skykrawler said:

Respectfully disagree with that order.    The flaps should be changed BEFORE the gear is raised.

Mooney, @redbaron1982, @Oscar Avalle and I all agree that GEAR comes first.

[Skates97]

10 hours ago, Hank said:

I lower my gear on downwind, abeam my intended point of landing, and with a throttle reduction it initiates my descent to the runway.

If I'm flying a standard pattern I'm 15" to get down to my gear speed of 120mph, gear down abeam intended point of landing and reduce throttle to 13" which initiates my descent.

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Mooney, @redbaron1982, @Oscar Avalle and I all agree that GEAR comes first.

Agree, gear first on a go around, just like when you take off. Gear up, then flaps.

[skykrawler]

 

A  go-around is not a take-off.  If it was a landing then the airplane was likely configured with full flaps.

A go-around is prior to touch down.

A go around, baulked or rejected landing sequence should be full power, flaps to take-off, positive rate - trim, gear up.  Clear of obstacles, raise flaps.

If you practice gear up before flaps you leave open the very distinct possibility of sinking back to the runway, particularly in the worst case of accidently raising the flaps all the way.

Choosing to raise the gear later and concentrating on the aircraft flight path is never a bad idea.  Go ask your flight instructor.

This is the M20J poh.....

 

Edited Sunday at 01:19 PM by skykrawler

[Oscar Avalle]

On 1/10/2025 at 8:10 AM, 201Steve said:

All that water around you, a great reference for wind speed and direction. One of the benefits of training seaplane. 

Absolutely. I messed up great. There were many things that could and should have guided me... but I got tunnel vision and thought that I was right... Well I wasn't.... 

[Oscar Avalle]

23 hours ago, Hank said:

Great video, Oscar! You could produce videos as a side gig!

One quick question, since we both fly similar C models (minus your glorious panel ). I believe we can learn from each other, and I noticed your procedures have one significant difference from mine--when we lower the gear.

I lower my gear on downwind, abeam my intended point of landing, and with a throttle reduction it initiates my descent to the runway. On your first attempt, you lowered your gear early on the upwind leg, and the second time I could not spot the field. 

This post inspired me to review my Owners Manual, and it gives no guidance on lowering the gear other than below 120 mph. I must have picked up my habit from my Mooney Transition Instructor lo these many years ago, but my memory is not very clear on that (although my C was also my introduction to complex airplanes, so I had no previous habits).

So I'm just curious, what is your "signal" to lower the gear, and where did you learn that?

Good question... (not about the video... I believe I have a lot to learn... but I have fun reviewing and trying to put something together that is entertaining). 

When do I lower the gear? It depends, I don't have a specific moment when I do it. When I am VFR I lower the gear when I am about to enter the pattern and once I slow down below 120 mph. When I am on an IFR approach I do it once I cross the FAF. But for sure before I turn base my gear is down. 

Having said that, I remember that I was told to do a GUMPs on downwind abean the numbers, but I prefer to do it earlier... If something is wrong, I prefer to know it asap. 

BTW... my M20C has now a IO-360... 200 HP injected engine... but it is still a M20C

[Oscar Avalle]

3 hours ago, skykrawler said:

 

A  go-around is not a take-off.  If it was a landing then the airplane was likely configured with full flaps.

A go-around is prior to touch down.

A go around, baulked or rejected landing sequence should be full power, flaps to take-off, positive rate - trim, gear up.  Clear of obstacles, raise flaps.

If you practice gear up before flaps you leave open the very distinct possibility of sinking back to the runway, particularly in the worst case of accidently raising the flaps all the way.

Choosing to raise the gear later and concentrating on the aircraft flight path is never a bad idea.  Go ask your flight instructor.

This is the M20J poh.....

 

One lesson learned out of all that... train for go arounds... Don't assume that you will know what you have to do. Once I noticed that I was bouncing I thought I have to initiate a go around. Full power, mixture rich and prop forward. PItch to 76... but then you see the trees!!! and they come towards you!!! fast... I actually diviated a bid... You have to stay cool... not easy.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, skykrawler said:

 

A  go-around is not a take-off.  If it was a landing then the airplane was likely configured with full flaps.

A go-around is prior to touch down.

A go around, baulked or rejected landing sequence should be full power, flaps to take-off, positive rate - trim, gear up.  Clear of obstacles, raise flaps.

If you practice gear up before flaps you leave open the very distinct possibility of sinking back to the runway, particularly in the worst case of accidently raising the flaps all the way.

Choosing to raise the gear later and concentrating on the aircraft flight path is never a bad idea.  Go ask your flight instructor.

This is the M20J poh.....

 

That's not in my Owners Manual . . . which is also in mph rather than knots. Yes, I searched the pdf in addition to scrolling around.

[carusoam]

 Nothing like landing down-wind without warning…

it will happen one day.

 

So many flags, smoke, or water surfaces around…

but, if you remember all those… you will also be looking for the windsock that you may have not been able to find…. (My experience, not Oscar’s)

 

new rule of thumb… 

when expecting to land on the numbers, and you are now whizzing past the halfway point…

this is the sign to go around.

when you opt to land… you will be touching down long while going really fast…

some pilots try to apply brakes… not really effective at 75ias.

the runway starts getting much shorter…

then the decision resurfaces… try to take off, or fall off the end of the runway…?

 

I know of two Mooneys that left the ground, yet failed to fly… one a rented J, the other a Bravo…

we got the full story from the Bravo pilot…

the J driver isn’t talking to anyone…

 

from experience… I went out for a short flight to nowhere, came back to the same airport after a cold front came through…

wind swapped directions…

I had a great touch down…

the windsock was pointing my way…

I used up 2k’ of runway without touching down…

and had another 2k’ to go to get the binders on and slow down…

Simple error, I used all 4k’ that day…

do not repeat…!  
 

remember… there is a simple way to avoid this…

see my next post…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Avoiding landing down wind…

the @Piloto method…

I’m pretty sure I go this technique from José (?)

 

Part of that Gumps check…

Ground Speed…

1) if your ground speed isn’t a smaller number than your Air Speed… on final.

or…

2) Ground speed on downwind, should be higher than your airspeed…

 

Anyone with a GPS is able to verify this important detail…

this is a handy piece of information that didn’t come from primary training, and took years of being an MSer for including it in my flight bag of knowledge…

PP thoughts only not a CFI.

best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Great video Oscar!

little Oscar junior isn’t so little anymore!  

 

great conversation starter….

1) practicing go arounds is important…

2) every Mooney trimmed for landing, with flaps deployed…

3) WILL try to kill the pilot…

4) when full power is added…( without preparation, or practice, or good arm strength…)

 

5) Reason… the deployed flaps have moved the center of lift a bit forwards.

6) Full power makes the nose rise sharply…

7) be ready to hold the nose in place, while trimming, and cleaning up…

8) all Mooneys can climb with gear down, and flaps deployed, at MGTW…

9) electric gear is nice…

10) electric flaps better stop in the T/O position…

11) hydraulic flaps better be using the slow retract feature, not snapping into the full up position…

12) 310hp makes it more fun…

If you use full flaps, full up trim, and push in 100% bhp…

you can probably complete the first loop prior to getting the gear up…

 

Failed Mooney go around was the first accident study I read, before flying a Mooney… the victim was a CFI.

This is where Mooney specific transition training really shines!

there isn’t a check list short enough to read while this is going on…

Full power isn’t always the best answer for go arounds…

PP thoughts only, not a CFI…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

On the topic of leaving the gear up as long as possible…

my M20C experience included a lot of what if the engine dies here…

Which lead to leaving the gear up as late as possible…

 

With the Ovation…

gear down and T/O flaps occurs before getting into the traffic pattern…

The weight and speed and momentum of the slightly bigger bird, takes longer to react to changes…

brain off loading while looking for traffic… and multitasking at the highest level of the flight…

Still not a CFI…

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

9 hours ago, skykrawler said:

 

A  go-around is not a take-off.  If it was a landing then the airplane was likely configured with full flaps.

A go-around is prior to touch down.

A go around, baulked or rejected landing sequence should be full power, flaps to take-off, positive rate - trim, gear up.  Clear of obstacles, raise flaps.

If you practice gear up before flaps you leave open the very distinct possibility of sinking back to the runway, particularly in the worst case of accidently raising the flaps all the way.

Choosing to raise the gear later and concentrating on the aircraft flight path is never a bad idea.  Go ask your flight instructor.

This is the M20J poh.....

 

This is going to depend on what model/year you are flying. If you have hydraulic flaps there is a lever you push down and pump the flaps to lower. To raise you lift the lever which brings the flaps all the way up. Good luck trying to raise your flaps to takeoff position from full flaps.