Advice on first steps after buying an older J?

[BlueSky247]

Hey Guys,

 

I'm the one that has put in an offer on that 78J in the classifieds. That is pending the annual and inspection being completed without any major issues. Yes, a mooney-savvy person will be looking it over.

 

Assuming everything goes through on this one, I'm planning what to start doing on it. Thankfully, it has a gns430waas and a gtx335, so at least that side of things is ok. However the remaining nav/com is all old and it's all steam gauges. (And yes, I know it is always better to buy a plane with the panel you want already installed, but the history on this plane is worth more than that to me.)

 

The mission for this plane will be lots of trips around the CONUS, so I'll be putting appropriate emergency gear in the baggage hold. Helps cruise speed as well, right? 

 

I have made several A&P contacts locally so owner-assisted work for minor stuff shouldn't be a problem.

 

I am thinking I will start with exterior LED's. I really like the idea of the brightness improvements as well as making life easier on the alternator. 

 

Long term, the plan is to give it a year to sort out any squawks and then plan on a panel upgrade along with the ap.

 

Any suggestions or thoughts you guys have would be greatly appreciated. Both for "easy win" lower cost items as well as long term big ticket items.

 

P.S. Long term, I might do the ifd440 slide in depending on if the dynon ap approval goes through before then. Will also start that reserves fund for the next engine refresh, would really like to go with the 390 but we'll see. It will also need a repaint eventually and I'm leaning towards adding the wingtips, dropping the towel rack and moving antennas out there at the same time.

 

[MikeOH]

I was lucky that I bought mine equipped just fine for my needs...adding shoulder harnesses and an LED landing light have been my only 'upgrades' in nearly seven years.  Yes, I'm a certified CB

IMHO, I'd suggest you just fly it as-is for a year and see what needs fixing before worrying about spendy upgrades.

[Pinecone]

MicroKit Landing Height System.  Gives altitude callouts 200 feet and below.  Also gives you a "Check Gear" call if you get to 200 feet with the gear switch in the up position.

Check your belts and harnesses.  Mine were original from 1986.  Inertial reel for pilot is nice.

LED landing and taxi lights first, then strobe/nav.

JPI 830 or 900 for better engine instruments and data logging.  Really nice is the fuel remaining at destination.

These are what I did in the first 6 months of owning my plane.

FYI, survival kit in baggage compartment.  Best is on your body, second is close at hand to grab on your way out.  Baggage compartment may not be accessible as you get out due to things like fire.

[EricJ]

+1 to just fly it and see what you think you need.    If you modify it to your tastes and priorities you can make it a great airplane for you.    Plus then you'll find what actually needs attention and what doesn't.

 

[BlueSky247]

Love the sound of that landing height system. Thanks!
 

How about the speed brakes? Worth adding those at some point? I’ll be having major work done at Cole when the time comes so maybe I’ll batch some things for them. 

[MikeOH]

21 minutes ago, BlueSky247 said:

Love the sound of that landing height system. Thanks!
 

How about the speed brakes? Worth adding those at some point? I’ll be having major work done at Cole when the time comes so maybe I’ll batch some things for them. 

They were installed on my plane when I bought it, but I do NOT think I would spend the money to add them.  They can be handy when ATC slam-dunks you, but beyond that they just make up for poor descent planning, IMHO

IOW, the juice ain't worth the sqeeze.

[ArtVandelay]

Love the sound of that landing height system. Thanks!
 
How about the speed brakes? Worth adding those at some point? I’ll be having major work done at Cole when the time comes so maybe I’ll batch some things for them. 

I have them and I use them. When asked to keep your speed up, when slam dunked or even when coming over a mountain range and you need to get down quickly. I think they will cost 12-15 AMUs, so would wait to see how often you wish you had them.

[toto]

11 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

And yes, I know it is always better to buy a plane with the panel you want already installed

This might be true from a dollars and cents perspective, but I disagree pretty strongly that it’s the better outcome. Everyone makes decisions on their panel upgrades, and when you buy the upgraded panel, those decisions have already been made. Some of these are pretty serious compromises that would cost as much to undo as they would cost to do in the first place, and you’ll just have to live with it (or pay half again as much as you would have paid for the run-out panel).

A lot of this stuff is very subjective, and every plane I’ve been in with a panel that was upgraded at high cost by someone else leaves me scratching my head over one thing or another. Why did they put the AP control head here instead of there? Why did they burn so much real estate on a DME or an old Stormscope? Why did they combine Aspen with Garmin? Whatever .. lots of things that were probably perfect for the owner/pilot but that I would have done differently myself. 

[Pinecone]

I have a 252, so speed brakes are standard equipment.

I like having them and would probably put them on if the plane did not have them.  But they are one of the fly it and see if you want to spend the money for them.  I do use them, but they are around 8AMU plus install

[Z W]

Speed brakes are nice, but I find myself trying to fly so that they aren't needed even though I have them.  The rumble of the air over their wings once they're up, combined with an ear-popping descent, can make some passengers uncomfortable.  I'm pretty sure I would not add them to a plane that didn't have them, for what they cost, both to install and maintain. But they are a nice tool to have.

I think the first thing I would do with a new-to-me plane is fully de-cowl it, open up the tailcone, remove the interior and carpet, and fully clean and detail everything.  Then, once it's all cleaned and degreased, I would inspect and lubricate everything that moves - engine control cables, pushrods, cowl flap cables / motors, heim joints, push rods, hinges, retractable step, etc., with Tri-flow or another proper lubricant. 

Along the way I would look for any loose or broken wires, corroded electrical connections, signs of chafing in linkages, exhaust leaks, missing hardware, rusted hardware, brake fluid leaks, oil leaks, old / stiff / cracked hoses, scat tubing with holes in it, or similar items.  Anything that looks bad, and any hoses that look like they haven't been replaced in a decade, would probably get replaced, either by me if it's within the scope of owner maintenance, or by a shop if not.  Just because an item is airworthy and passed annual doesn't mean you want to keep flying it until failure.  

Some people think this is what shops do at prebuy and at each annual.  That's what I thought at first too.  The reality is most often something else, in my experience. A lot of that list is not required for an annual, and most owners don't want to pay what it costs to do this every year, so it does not get done. They check the required items and sign it off. The rest is on the owner.

It's best to get to know your own equipment, and keep it clean, so problems are easy to spot and easier to fix.  Good time to stock your hangar up with plane-cleaning supplies, lubricants, and degreasers.  Also some good portable shop lights and flash lights.

[Paul Thomas]

9 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

Love the sound of that landing height system. Thanks!
 

How about the speed brakes? Worth adding those at some point? I’ll be having major work done at Cole when the time comes so maybe I’ll batch some things for them. 

I bought my J earlier this year; I don't have speed brakes and I'm glad that I don't. To me, they are equal to less useful load and more maintenance for something I may potentially find useful at some point. I haven't found slowing down the airplane difficult.

[anthonydesmet]

19 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

I am thinking I will start with exterior LED's. I really like the idea of the brightness improvements as well as making life easier on the alternator. 

This is a perfect plan. If this is your first ownership experience you will enjoy it much more by keeping some money in the bank the first year or two for any surprises.  Out of your pre-buy you will have a list of squawks that aren’t critical but over time might be. Try and fix every item on that list at oil changes or as time permits that first year and make your Mooney as mechanically tight and perfect as you can. Then at your first annual you will have no surprises and neither will your wallet.  Then after that first annual start treating yourself with some little upgrades as a reward to yourself for flying and maintaining the most mechanically sound Mooney in the fleet.

[BlueSky247]

@Z W That's a great idea on the overall cleaning and lubing, inspect wires, etc. Beauty! Tyvm. I will probably have to build a hangar, but you better believe that will be J1 as soon as I get in it.

[ArtVandelay]

I bought my J earlier this year; I don't have speed brakes and I'm glad that I don't. To me, they are equal to less useful load and more maintenance for something I may potentially find useful at some point. I haven't found slowing down the airplane difficult.

Js have limitations on their engines (rpm/mp), so you are restricted in what engine settings.
They’re only like 12lbs.
I occasionally find them convenient, could I do without them, sure. Of course I could do without modern avionics too, but they are nice to have.
A personal plane is a luxury, speed brakes are just another luxury.

[BlueSky247]

Welp, my loadout could stand to lose 12lbs from on top of the pilot's seat, so I'm sure that will all even out eventually. 

 

Heaven forbid, if I had to have the tanks resealed, would that be a good time to install these to combine labor?

[Stephan Kablitz]

Hello BlueSky247,

We all fly behind one single engine and you should make sure you see bad things coming before they actually happen.

So I can strongly second the recommendation to install an engine monitor. With temperature readings on all cylinders and measured fuel flow you can adjust performance parameters precisely. If you want to run specific power settings, the injection system must be as balanced as possible and you will never know if that is the case without those sensors. If you find out it is not balanced (which is a game of luck) you should get GAMIjectors.

Despite all the dark themed emails they mass produce, I have found Savvy Aviation to be a great resource. You can upload the data from your engine monitor and they will alert you to trends. You should get yourself a borescope (or make sure your mechanic has one and know how to use it) and regularly upload borescope images, which they will analyse as well.

You should send oil samples to Blackstone to build a history to also be alerted to trends from that angle.

Most other trouble with some part or system of the aircraft will not be nearly so severe in consequence as losing the Olympic Fire in flight.

[BlueSky247]

@Stephan Kablitz That's a great idea, thank you. Yes, an engine monitor is absolutely on the short list, even though that will sting a bit on the install cost. Not just for the safety and data collection as you mentioned, but for me - I just can't fathom wanting to lean by sound or feel when we have much better ways to do that.

[KSMooniac]

An engine monitor should be the very first upgrade if not already present.  You can go cheap with a used system, although installation labor (or effort if DIY) will be nearly the same as a new one.  The knowledge on how to use/interpret should also be considered, and there is no better resource than the Advanced Pilot Seminar (APS) that is still available as an online-only option I believe.

My plane came with the JPI EDM-700 and it did everything that is required for a full picture, but I chose to upgrade to the primary-replacement EDM-900 when I overhauled my engine.  I also removed all of my old engine instruments.  The EDM-900 is a perfect upgrade for any Mooney as it can fit in many places without too much difficulty.

[Yetti]

New hoses call PH hoses in Tulsa  get the fancy brown ones

Aero LED

Rebuild Fuel Servo if has not been done

If you want an engine monitor, then go ahead and do a 7" screen Dynon EMS  on the co pilot side.

That's a quick $15K

You are welcome.

 

 

[Pinecone]

One thing to think of, Oshkosh is about 3 weeks away.  And many vendors have deals.

I did my harnesses (inertial reel), JPI830, landing/taxi LEDs, LHS< and a few other things using Oshkosh deals

[BlueSky247]

Yes, indeed! I was really hoping to be able to leverage that but the timing is not looking great on my end. Not even sure I'll make it out this year. 

[Pinecone]

I did not go, most vendors honor their Oshkosh prices for orders.

I had purchased my plane, but had not yet seen it in person and was ordering things.

 

[BlueSky247]

Sweet! So what's the best way to find out the show prices? Osh have a special site up during the event?

 

[A64Pilot]

Unless you have lots of money burning a hole in your pocket I’d strongly suggest you don’t buy anything for awhile beyond nickel and dime stuff.

Two things, it’s not uncommon at all for the first annual to be way more expensive than expected no matter how clean the pre-buy was. 

Secondly it’s not at all uncommon for the first six months or so for a lot of things to break as it’s most probable that your use rate will be higher than it’s last couple of years

[jetdriven]

I would save your cash for the first year make make sure you don’t have to cough up 50 grand for an engine for example. That’s what happened to us, and lots of others. One client of mine had the engine avionic shop changes oil at the end of a $50,000 upgrade and then the filter was full of metal so then he was in it for 100k. Our event kind of blew up our order of priorities, we had a 1200 hour Engine and planned on flying past TBO but the Engine didn’t go along with that plan. Then the paint went.  Then all of our analog radios and gyros quit working, the adsb mandate took effect too. So the interior ended up being last, which was 14 years after we bought the airplane. And by the time we get ready to factor that out, it’s 30 grand. But paint jobs are 30 grand too