Flat tire on landing

[T. Peterson]

55 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I had a left main fail just after touchdown while making an expedited and unplanned landing at a small airport due to an ill passenger. It was a Sunday afternoon and only about 50nm from my home drome. I had a mutual acquaintance who connected me with a mechanic that operated on field. He was out of town but was king enough to give me access to his shop. There happened to be an old 201 sitting on the tarmac that not flown in years but was under the mechanic’s tutelage. All the tires were full of air and in good shape. With his permission…Adapt and over come indeed. I returned and reinstalled the borrowed wheel within 48hrs

 

That’s what I’m talk’in about!! Oorah!!

[EricJ]

This looks nicer than the one I have, but this is the sort of thing that's available now.   Less than two pounds!

https://www.amazon.com/Digital-Compressor-Portable-Inflator-Light/dp/B07YC12FW1

 

[Marauder]

I kind of like the CO₂ idea. Who's got a favorite?

I carry this while cycling.



A lot of the road bike versions will use the 12 gram CO2 cartridge. This one can use 16, 20 or 25 gram cartridges. I opted for the larger cartridge version because inevitability prevails and I find the second hole in the tube after I used up the 12 gram cartridge.

Just need to make sure which cartridge type you are ordering (threaded versus non threaded). The compatible cartridges are listed in the description.

Never thought to see if it will fill an airplane tire. But if it will put enough gas in the tire, this is the way to go.


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[PT20J]

Anyone know how many CO2 cartridges it takes to fill an airplane tire?

[Jpravi8tor]

my favorite new tool is my Ryobi hand held compressor 

[A64Pilot]

7 hours ago, PT20J said:

Anyone know how many CO2 cartridges it takes to fill an airplane tire?

I wouldn’t think more than two, I believe there are bigger ones for mountain bikes, I was a roadie so don’t know for sure. They aren’t bb gun cartridges those are unthreaded and are 12 grams of gas, bike cartridges are either 16 or 20 grams and threaded. I had to look that up 

Apparently they can use unthreaded now, mine was real simple, connect it to the tire and screw in the cartridge, that pierced it and it all went into the tube. Seems of course they have gotten fancy now and I’m sure take up a whole lot more room.

Of course I carried a frame pump too, it’s best use was to smack the dog that was trying to eat your foot.

https://www.genuineinnovations.com/blogs/learn-about-our-tech/everything-you-need-to-know-about-co2-inflation-for-bike-tires

But other than a very rare incident like mine without a spare tube and tools to change it what good does an inflator do? Better carry two tubes one for the front tire.

Do you also carry a bottle jack and piece of pipe?

[Shadrach]

12 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I wouldn’t think more than two, I believe there are bigger ones for mountain bikes, I was a roadie so don’t know for sure. They aren’t bb gun cartridges those are unthreaded and are 12 grams of gas, bike cartridges are either 16 or 20 grams and threaded. I had to look that up 

Apparently they can use unthreaded now, mine was real simple, connect it to the tire and screw in the cartridge, that pierced it and it all went into the tube. Seems of course they have gotten fancy now and I’m sure take up a whole lot more room.

Of course I carried a frame pump too, it’s best use was to smack the dog that was trying to eat your foot.

https://www.genuineinnovations.com/blogs/learn-about-our-tech/everything-you-need-to-know-about-co2-inflation-for-bike-tires

But other than a very rare incident like mine without a spare tube and tools to change it what good does an inflator do? Better carry two tubes one for the front tire.

Do you also carry a bottle jack and piece of pipe?

The jack and pipe were the only Items I borrowed (other than the wheel). I had all the tools need on board. Pretty sure if needed that I could lift a wing using a “bent back” squat thrust outbound of the tank. Just need a helper to slid spacers under the gear at the axle. 

[jlunseth]

20 hours ago, Marauder said:

A lot of the road bike versions will use the 12 gram CO2 cartridge. This one can use 16, 20 or 25 gram cartridges. I opted for the larger cartridge version because inevitability prevails and I find the second hole in the tube after I used up the 12 gram cartridge.
 

Been there done that. Or I find the tiny piece of metal lodged in the tire that is puncturing the tube. I carry two or three cartridges and a spare tube, no point in bothering with patching, there will be another hole somewhere.

[Shadrach]

20 hours ago, PT20J said:

Anyone know how many CO2 cartridges it takes to fill an airplane tire?

CO2 is still a good option for bicycles but compact double action pumps work well and are probably a wash weight wise. For motor vehicles, portable compressors have come a long way. Small, light and efficient in terms of energy used and output volume. I carry one in each of my cars and they’re small enough to stow in a sidewall compartment or next to a spare. 

[DonMuncy]

13 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I wouldn’t think more than two,

Is there any chance, one could over-inflate a tire enough to present a problem with these cartridges?

[N201MKTurbo]

As I said before I use the BB gun cartridges. You can keep one in the inflator, just don't screw the bottom on enough to puncture it. And I usually keep at least two more in my tiny seat pack. The seat pack holds the tube, inflator, cartridges, tire irons, Allen wrenches and my phone. One bb gun cartridge would put enough "air" in the tire to taxi, two would probably make it flyable. Next landing gear inspection, I'll try to remember and I will do an experiment and see how many it takes.

One 12gm BB gun cartridge will make my road bike (22mm) tires hard.

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Is there any chance, one could over-inflate a tire enough to present a problem with these cartridges?

Probably not. I would suggest getting an inflator with a valve. The smallest inflators don't have a valve.

[A64Pilot]

7 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Is there any chance, one could over-inflate a tire enough to present a problem with these cartridges?

I doubt it, I’m sure a tire will hold well over 100 PSI. Not saying fly like that but I’m sure it could hold it, then you let a little out.

There is no concern of having liquid CO2 in a tire that would build pressure as it warmed up. Pressure in one of the little cartridges is over 800 PSI and liquid, boiling off is of course why they get so cold.

[Hank]

10 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

There is no concern of having liquid CO2 in a tire that would build pressure as it warmed up. Pressure in one of the little cartridges is over 800 PSI and liquid, boiling off is of course why they get so cold.

They get cold due to rapid expansion of the gas. The greater the drop in pressure, the more temperature drop there is, so says the Ideal Gas Law. PV/T is a constant. Boiling off liquid CO2 is where the gas comes from.

[EricJ]

5 hours ago, Hank said:

They get cold due to rapid expansion of the gas. The greater the drop in pressure, the more temperature drop there is, so says the Ideal Gas Law. PV/T is a constant. Boiling off liquid CO2 is where the gas comes from.

Yes, if those things had liquid CO2 in them you'd have permanent skin damage from touching the canister.

[Pinecone]

No,  CO2 can be a liquid at room temperature, if the pressure is high enough.

But as it turns to a gas, it gets really cold.
 

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

No,  CO2 can be a liquid at room temperature, if the pressure is high enough.

Yeah, the vapor pressure is not what I thought, and supercritical by 90F.   

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

But as it turns to a gas, it gets really cold.

Yeah, that's expected, even just for decompression of the gas.

[A64Pilot]

On 12/21/2022 at 11:04 AM, EricJ said:

Yes, if those things had liquid CO2 in them you'd have permanent skin damage from touching the canister.

They do have liquid CO2 in them if not there would be very little gas, very high pressure like 800ish PSI keeps it liquid at room temp.

The primary cooling comes from the phase change of liquid to a gas, just like a vapor cycle airconditioner, some from gas expansion I guess but most is the phase change.

You don’t want to be holding a bare cartridge in your hand when it’s suddenly allowed to boil off. You’ll only do that once. Only took me once to learn. 

[PT20J]

I bought a CO₂ tire inflator and some spare cartridges

I deflated the nose wheel tire. It took two cartridges to get the pressure up to 25 psi. The nose wheel is supposed to be inflated to 49 psi, but I could have taxied it on 25. So, to fully inflate a main tire might require 4 or 5 cartridges.

Skip

[PeteMc]

48 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The nose wheel is supposed to be inflated to 49 psi, but I could have taxied it on 25. So, to fully inflate a main tire might require 4 or 5 cartridges.

I have a little Cig Lighter compressor I use to fill the tires.  Even from the smaller battery in the plane, it should have plenty of juice to fill a tire.

Of course if it's got a leak, then one of those Leak Fix canisters is your only bet.  But I'd replace the tube as soon as possible as the junk to seal the tube will also collect in a big clump and put the tire out of balance.

 

[jetdriven]

On 12/18/2022 at 1:03 PM, MooneyMitch said:

Ok, as I drift this thread further......................I just spoke to my dear friend Gary Anderson regarding the missing Mooney nose wheel story.

A friend of Gary's was flying over to Cameron Park for a visit.  Gary was on the ground watching as the F entered the pattern.  Gary noticed the nose wheel missing and via handheld, suggested his friend only do a fly-by for the missing wheel verification.  Yep, sure nuf, missing wheel assembly.  The F model decided to return to Livermore [his home base] for the landing.  Gary followed along in his Mooney for moral support.  LVK tower was alerted and response crews were dispatched.  The landing was uneventful as the bearing race had remained on the axle and functioned as a wheel upon touchdown.  Gary says no sparks were seen, no prop strike either.  No damage to the airplane.

Later a neighbor in the Cameron Park area found the wheel and it was returned to the F model owner. 

Gary doesn't recall, but obviously a mechanic had left the cotter pin and probably the axle nut off during some maintenance ! 

Another lucky day Mooney story !

There must have been more than the cotter pin left off as the wheel bearings are retained by a dust washer stack and a snap ring.  And the outer wheel bearing can't fit through the wheel to stay on the axle if the wheel comes off. 

[RobertGary1]

On 12/18/2022 at 2:50 PM, PT20J said:

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry a pump. Unless it was a blowout, you could pump it up enough to get to a tie down.

Yea I have a small 12 v pump  I carry in the back. 

[Pinecone]

I would get something like these:

https://www.amazon.com/Makita-DMP180ZX-Lithium-Ion-Cordless-Inflator/dp/B085DV34VC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=35IULSLCQ08EW&keywords=air+compressor+makita&qid=1672926807&sprefix=air+compressor+makita%2Caps%2C72&sr=8-5

https://www.amazon.com/Ryobi-18-Volt-ONE-Power-Inflator/dp/B07F88XL24/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1I36T2ITZ0SOM&keywords=air+compressor+ryobi&qid=1672926865&sprefix=air+compressor+ryobi%2Caps%2C63&sr=8-3

https://www.amazon.com/AUTDER-Inflator-Compressor-Portable-Cigarette/dp/B09JFPN1NP/ref=sr_1_12?crid=3TJPW0YEBUPEB&keywords=air+compressor+milwaukee&qid=1672926887&sprefix=air+compressor+milwaukee%2Caps%2C67&sr=8-12&ufe=app_do%3Aamzn1.fos.18ed3cb5-28d5-4975-8bc7-93deae8f9840

I wish MIlwaukee made a smaller and lighter one, then I could use the battery from my Sidewinder.

 

 

[MooneyMitch]

17 hours ago, jetdriven said:

There must have been more than the cotter pin left off as the wheel bearings are retained by a dust washer stack and a snap ring.  And the outer wheel bearing can't fit through the wheel to stay on the axle if the wheel comes off. 

Yep, agree.   With all of this, the fellow was super lucky all turned out positively.

[kortopates]

I bought a CO₂ tire inflator and some spare cartridges

I deflated the nose wheel tire. It took two cartridges to get the pressure up to 25 psi. The nose wheel is supposed to be inflated to 49 psi, but I could have taxied it on 25. So, to fully inflate a main tire might require 4 or 5 cartridges.
Skip

Make sure to use the larger cartridges meant for Fat Tires used on mountain bikes. I forget sizes but they’re much larger than ones intended for road bikes.


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