Mooney crash ADS

[Parker_Woodruff]

9 hours ago, WSMD said:

Hello all,

Neither of us lost conscience, the handle fell off inside and I was unable to open the door.  Someone came up to the window and we told him to pull outer latch and they got us out. 

We are so glad you both got out!

While I don't know if the door mechanism inside was completely fine before impact, this should be a great reminder to owners - if the door latch isn't behaving right - get it fixed before flight!

Thanks for the write-up!

[WSMD]

Thank you all!  We're trying to find the people that helped at the scene, we want to personally Thank them.  The handle was working fine.  He had the interior redone a few years ago.  All he wanted was a new headliner that was cracked and he went to pick it up from Longview and they had done all the inside.  It was TERRIBLE!!! They drilled holes that cracked new liner and didn't even use them, just screwed it in a different place, didn't even use matching screws.  Almost like whatever they could find in the shop.  They glued the few instruction plates back on and allowed the glue to drip out.  They didn't even reinstall the curtains, just shoved them in a bag and handed them to him after they took the payment!! DO NOT USE ANY of the companies in Longview, TX.  All are a bunch of hacks/ crooks.

[Niko182]

3 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

We are so glad you both got out!

While I don't know if the door mechanism inside was completely fine before impact, this should be a great reminder to owners - if the door latch isn't behaving right - get it fixed before flight!

Thanks for the write-up!

I make sure in every passenger briefing that if there is any sort of emergency, to open the door inflight before touching down so I dont need to worry about not being able to open it.

[EricJ]

35 minutes ago, Niko182 said:

I make sure in every passenger briefing that if there is any sort of emergency, to open the door inflight before touching down so I dont need to worry about not being able to open it.

I show passengers how to open it and latch it open in the event of an off-airport landing.   

[Sue Bon]

Not being able to open the door must have been absolutely terrifying. I can't even imagine it.

I'm so, so glad that there were people there willing and able to help you out. Thank you for your updates. All the best to both of you for a full recovery.

[Ibra]

On 12/16/2022 at 6:40 PM, Niko182 said:

I make sure in every passenger briefing that if there is any sort of emergency, to open the door inflight before touching down so I dont need to worry about not being able to open it

My Mooney co-owner in UK had an EFATO at 150ft (likely water in fuel) 15 years ago, he flew it straight into the adjacent farm, survived the impact but end up stuck, he likely did not have time to open door in flight and could not force the cockpit door after impact…

He showed me two additional tricks: the good news Mooney has bag door that can be opened (or blow up) from inside, he will go for that back bag door again but with his age he added an extra insurance: small hammer in his seat pocket 

Edited December 18, 2022 by Ibra

[hammdo]

Our C’s don’t have that baggage door feature but the hammer is good!

-Don

[DCarlton]

4 hours ago, hammdo said:

Our C’s don’t have that baggage door feature but the hammer is good!

-Don

Any idea how hard it is to break the plexiglass with a hammer?  Would be interesting to try it on an old window.  I also lock my baggage door before flight to keep it secure in flight.  Not sure if that’s the best idea. 

[hammdo]

Plex is pretty tough but can be cracked. I don’t lock my baggage door since ours is less likely to open if it’s fully locked. I’d like to retro fit the handle to unlock from inside though at some point - if it’s still out there…

-Don

[Pinecone]

In the USAF, each airplane has a canopy breaker tool.  It will go through a pressurized fighter canopy.  So no problem with GA windows.

 

 

[Ibra]

9 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I also lock my baggage door before flight to keep it secure in flight.  Not sure if that’s the best idea. 

Actually, you can open bag door from the inside even when it's locked by key from outside, I don't have picture or drawing at hand but there is a latch with an emergency safety pin inside (make sure that safety pin is in place and secured outside reach of back pax hands or bag staps)

 

Edit: I saw in the next post that the inside handle is not always installed in Mooneys

Edited December 19, 2022 by Ibra

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, hammdo said:

I don’t lock my baggage door since ours is less likely to open if it’s fully locked. I’d like to retro fit the handle to unlock from inside though at some point - if it’s still out there…

-Don

Hello, Don @hammdo-

I did exactly the mod you’re talking about to my M20C about 5 years ago.  It works very well and should be relatively easy for your mechanic to do as a minor alteration.  And as you noted, the baggage door has to be unlocked.

 

[Fly Boomer]

15 hours ago, Ibra said:

He showed me two additional tricks: the good news Mooney has bag door that can be opened (or blow up) from inside, he will go for that back bag door again but with his age he added an extra insurance: small hammer in his seat pocket 

That hammer idea may be a crap shoot.  I saw a video of a guy using one of those "glass break hammers" designed for cars to try to break the windscreens removed from several airplanes.  Some broke about as readily as glass, but others he couldn't break with any amount of pounding.  I wouldn't bet my life on the hammer.

Also, for anyone who leaves their baggage door unlocked in case of emergency, at least for the models listed, this solution appears to work even if the baggage door is locked from the outside:

https://www.mooney.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/SIM20-82.pdf

 

[Ibra]

31 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

That hammer idea may be a crap shoot.  I saw a video of a guy using one of those "glass break hammers" designed for cars to try to break the windscreens removed from several airplanes.  Some broke about as readily as glass, but others he couldn't break with any amount of pounding.  I wouldn't bet my life on the hammer.

Do you have a link on that video? I would be interested in windscreen models and breaking techniques 

Yes it may not be very trivial with hammer, one may have to finish it with his hands & legs from the inside (I can bet that baseball sticks from outside would work better )

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Ibra

[Fly Boomer]

30 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Do you have a link on that video? I would be keen on models and techniques 

Yes it may not be very trivial with hammer, one may have to finish it with his legs from the inside (I can bet that baseball sticks from outside would work better )

 

I don't have the video, but your mention of technique is important because it is difficult or perhaps impossible to apply the same force from inside as outside.

EDIT:  Found the video:

https://youtu.be/rxFRhJoCZTg

WARNING:  The guy who produced this video foes by "Just Plane Silly"

 

[jlunseth]

While I always instruct passengers about the emergency exit system (baggage door) I wouldn’t count on it. For the pilot it would mean climbing over the front and rear seats and probably removing the headrests to do it. The headrests are not hard to remove, they slide out, but remember this is an emergency, every fraction of a second counts. Then there is the fact that the door sits over the baggage well/compartment. And there may be passengers in the way such as kids who can’t be counted on to get that latch open. It would be a real job to make it out that door. Has anyone actually tried it? You would need to be a skinny gymnast. By far the best is to get the passenger door open before impact so it won’t jam in the frame.

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, hammdo said:

Plex is pretty tough but can be cracked. I don’t lock my baggage door since ours is less likely to open if it’s fully locked. I’d like to retro fit the handle to unlock from inside though at some point - if it’s still out there…

-Don

Definitely do-able.    I added an interior pull-cable to mine (an early J with no previous internal release), and it wasn't very hard to do.   An added benefit is that it's easy to look back and verify that it's completely latched because there's no slack on the pull.    Checking that is the first item on my pre-start checklist.

 

[201er]

Here's the video

 

 

[ArtVandelay]

Do you have a link on that video? I would be interested in windscreen models and breaking techniques 
Yes it may not be very trivial with hammer, one may have to finish it with his hands & legs from the inside (I can bet that baseball sticks from outside would work better )
 

I have the thicker glass and tried special hammer and stepping on it , no luck.

[Marc_B]

@201er Watching the videos of a guy hammering away on a window and I had visions of Norm Abram from New Yankee Workshop saying "There is no more important rule than to wear these...safety glasses." 

 

[201er]

18 minutes ago, Marc_B said:

@201er Watching the videos of a guy hammering away on a window and I had visions of Norm Abram from New Yankee Workshop saying "There is no more important rule than to wear these...safety glasses." 

You hear that? Everyone who is planning to keep a hammer in their cockpit, you better add safety glasses to that as well!

[Marc_B]

2 minutes ago, 201er said:

Everyone who is planning to keep a hammer in their cockpit, you better add safety glasses to that as well!

Ha! No, in an emergency do whatever it takes to save yourself and others.  But just trialing breaking plastic/glass in a controlled setting, no reason not to protect those eyes!

[Ibra]

36 minutes ago, 201er said:

Here's the video

Did you try one of these? not "aviation rated" but they do the job 

[ilovecornfields]

1 minute ago, Ibra said:

Did you try one of these? not "aviation rated" but they do the job 

Funny. That looks identical to my “pilot isolate” tool for the intercom.

[bonal]

Not for nothing, first wishing a speedy and complete recovery for the flyers.  Lots of discussion about breaking windows to evacuate I’m confused am I the only one that had it drilled into me from the beginning of my flight training that you should open the door when a forced off field landing is evident.

Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night