Mice vs wing spars…prevention?

[takair]

There are a few threads regarding corrosion.  Many potential causes.  I know mouse urine is corrosive.  Does anybody know if  Corrosion X or ACF 50 neutralize the urine?  What about droppings?  If it does not neutralize the mess, is it possible that it actually promotes migration of the urine or puts the droppings in a solution that actually gets to more places in the airframe?  Odd question, I know.  Droppings are relatively easy to find and vacuum out, but it seems urine is near impossible to find and clean.  I am a fan of the products, but the thought popped into my head.

Stretch question….what about when mixed with TKS?

[carusoam]

Well…

Lets consider for a moment… the waste product chemicals…. Of various animals

 

1) Critters of the land… typically have Urea in there kidney’s waste streams… a weak base.

2) Critters of the air… Uric acid… doubles as a crummy paint oxidizer/remover…. A weak acid.

3) Fish pee… Amonia… only a handful of Mooneys have been known to have lived underwater, and it was only temporary…. 
 

Then consider how CorrosionX works….

1) It is a coating

2) It is hydrophobic

3) It is good at keeping moisture away from metal surfaces using surface tension… moisture beads up and runs off of it…

4) Expect CX to be good at preventing mouse pee from contacting the metal initially… but, if left in pools over and over… CX is an imperfect coating…. And can be penetrated give time….

 

When it comes to cleaning metals… the FDA gives some guidance for cleaning and passivating metal surfaces…

I believe passivation is a process to leave nothing behind that can aid in oxidization of the metal, or cause issues later on…. The materials and procedures will be metal specific… including stainless steels…. Because at the molecular level… oxygen molecules have a hard time knowing the whole thing is stainless steel… and small granules of the metal may not be as stainless as the whole…

 

For the animal waste products… they are kind of water soluble… and soap and water are a good first aid….

There are probably some good products, and procedures written about this challenge…. And cleaning products might be found at a pet store…

Clean, passivate, coat…    

I bet the guy with airplane museum experience has battled this issue before….  Wait for Skip to stop by….  
 

PP thoughts only, not a zoologist….

Best regards,

-a-

[takair]

Good info Anthony.  I’m almost sure I have never had a fish invasion problem.  Birds and mice are suspect though.  I should add, I am mainly wondering about residual byproducts.  In other words…many if not most… aircraft have had residents at some point.  Does the urine have corrosive effects indefinitely?  Many places where the critters reside are not easily inspected or reached for cleaning….especially in the wings.  What do the corrosion inhibitors do when applied post invasion?  I suspect there is not a good answer.  

[carusoam]

Rob,

It basically comes down to a good cleaning when it gets found…

The urea and uric acids can crystallize and stay around for a really long time….

Whenever moisture is available, these things can get Back to work….again.

Putting a coating on top of it won’t help enough…. As the stuff will be in intimate contact with the metal…. Similar to painting over a dirty surface….

 

So… I think CorrosionX is good… just not perfect…

Sounds like a good question to ask the CorrosionX guys… they may have proven that this stuff works better than we think…. 

 

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

Don’t forget to keep your rat socks in good condition.

[LANCECASPER]

50 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

Don’t forget to keep your rat socks in good condition.

I think knitting them little socks makes them feel at home and you'll never get rid of them. Before long they'll want little sweaters, hats and mittens. Oh . . . .  hang on. . . .  that's not the rat socks we're talking about . . .  nevermind 

[GeeBee]

Vermin control is vital in a hangar. First you have to get rid of them, then you have to prevent them.

First is eradication. Our local shelters provide "working cats". These are cats too mean to adopt out. For a nominal fee they will drop them off at night and pick them up in the morning. About a week of that and your mice are gone and the cats get to live out their lives hunting. A lot of businesses use these cats at night. Just make sure you cover your windows so they don't scratch them.

Prevention comes in the form of those little houses with bait, but don't place them inside. Put them outside so they are not lured inside. Any mice that approach the hangar will go for the easy meal first.

Finally you have to get all hangar tenants to agree....no food left in the hangars or the planes.

We don't have any mice at my hangar!

[ArtVandelay]

Mice? We have rats, they’ve put traps out in front of the hangar, but I hope they don’t die in my hangar.

[takair]

I agree on prevention and I don’t actually have a problem at the moment, but when I’ve had to leave the airplane outside on some occasions, it is amazing how fast critters can move in.  Cleaning all areas they may have gone is virtually impossible. This became obvious on a plane I am restoring.  I removed the metal leading edge due to damage.  The inside was not accessible without removal.  The entire spar and leading edge had significant evidence of mouse tenants.  Lucky for me, the spar is wooden in this airplane and no damage….but it made me wonder about our Mooney’s.  There are many areas that are marginally accessible….thus my question on alternative ways to neutralize what can’t be seen.  The multiple reports of spar cap corrosion had me thinking further….

[RobertGary1]

Park outside. Mice are a hanger problem. They don't like the cold wet ramp.

[takair]

28 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Park outside. Mice are a hanger problem. They don't like the cold wet ramp.

I had the opposite problem when I had to have the plane outside a few years ago…..but the tie downs were near grass.  Birds and mice loved it.  

[Guest]

Mix a bowl of flour, sugar and plaster of Paris and leave it in the hangar.  Once ingested the plaster sets up in their gut killing them. And it’s not toxic to anything that might eat them when they’re dead.

Clarence

[LANCECASPER]

8 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Mix a bowl of flour, sugar and plaster of Paris and leave it in the hangar.  Once ingested the plaster sets up in their gut killing them. And it’s not toxic to anything that might eat them when they’re dead.

Clarence

If that works on humans . . . I am guessing we'll have a new episode of Forensic Files  . . .  "his difficult-to-deal-with airplane partner was found dead after eating cookie dough that had been left in the hangar refrigerator . . .  an internet history search showed that the other partner had been viewing Mooneyspace earlier that day . . .  was it just a case of severe bowel blockage or was it murrrrrrrder? (fade to theme music then commercial) "

[FoxMike]

Our hangar  is 40' from a grass strip which harbors many mice.  A couple of years ago we had a bumper crop of mice and it was not long till a good many of them took up residence in the hangar.  All seven of the units facing the grass strip could not empty the traps fast enough.  One day I noticed a hawk siting on a nearby hangar.  Late in the afternoon the hawk would make a low pass over the grass strip and after several weeks the not a mouse could be found.  

[LANCECASPER]

2 minutes ago, FoxMike said:

Late in the afternoon the hawk would make a low pass over the grass strip and after several weeks the not a mouse could be found.  

Not a creature was stirring, not even a mouse.

[MikeOH]

Here ya go 

 

[201Steve]

14 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Mix a bowl of flour, sugar and plaster of Paris and leave it in the hangar.  Once ingested the plaster sets up in their gut killing them. And it’s not toxic to anything that might eat them when they’re dead.

Clarence

What if he dies inside your wing? 

[LANCECASPER]

19 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

What if he dies inside your wing? 

Clarence then sells you an STC for the Mouse Charlie Weight.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, 201Steve said:

What if he dies inside your wing? 

Found during the next inspection.

Clarence

[RoundTwo]

I swear by these mouse rollers.

https://www.amazon.com/Adad-trap-Rolling-Transparent-Bucket-Roller/dp/B07ZPCW6QS/ref=asc_df_B07ZPCW6QS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=533225162126&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4536755733881263637&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9010866&hvtargid=pla-1575180349192&psc=1

I keep one in my garage and they work extremely well. Before getting one, we had mice in all of our vehicles. Non-toxic and you never have to check it. Your nose will let you know when someone failed their swimming test.

R2

[Browncbr1]

I don’t intentionally leave bait for critters that could draw them in from far away.  I would rather them stay far away to begin with.   About once a month, I spray peppermint oil around the hangar.   Note, peppermint oil is corrosive to aluminum, so don’t spray it in your wings.  Instead, spray acf50.    

Edited February 11, 2022 by Browncbr1

[A64Pilot]

Glue traps have worked well for me. Put them against the wall as the buggers run up against a wall for some reason.

Also denying access, my C-140 the only way they can get in is through the tailwheel, so I put it on a 5 gl plastic bucket turned upside down, they can’t climb the plastic.

That doesn’t help a Mooney, maybe plastic collars around the gear? Or maybe glue traps around the gear?

[NotarPilot]

On 2/10/2022 at 3:57 AM, M20Doc said:

Mix a bowl of flour, sugar and plaster of Paris and leave it in the hangar.  Once ingested the plaster sets up in their gut killing them. And it’s not toxic to anything that might eat them when they’re dead.

Clarence

How many parts of each?

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, NotarPilot said:

How many parts of each?

I’m not sure of the ratio, my wife found it on the internet.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

On 2/9/2022 at 10:32 AM, takair said:

I agree on prevention and I don’t actually have a problem at the moment, but when I’ve had to leave the airplane outside on some occasions, it is amazing how fast critters can move in.  Cleaning all areas they may have gone is virtually impossible. This became obvious on a plane I am restoring.  I removed the metal leading edge due to damage.  The inside was not accessible without removal.  The entire spar and leading edge had significant evidence of mouse tenants.  Lucky for me, the spar is wooden in this airplane and no damage….but it made me wonder about our Mooney’s.  There are many areas that are marginally accessible….thus my question on alternative ways to neutralize what can’t be seen.  The multiple reports of spar cap corrosion had me thinking further….

That's why Al designed it with wet wings. The tank weeps make for natural fumigators.