Insurance creep

[carusoam]

Time in type... 100hrs is good... more may be better...

IR... is good...

Recent training helps... MAPA training...

Things that helped lower my rate in the past... while using that other company... aka falcon.

Best regards,

-a-

[steingar]

16 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

USAIG is different than AIG.

AIG - American International Group

USAIG - United States Aircraft Insurance Group.  Which involves Berkshire Hathaway.

Parker, thank you.  

[Parker_Woodruff]

14 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I don't know, Parker, I've had my plane for 10 years and I've got 800 hours in it and the lowest rate with 100k subllimits is $2700. I think they're rating my other partner on this which has 1000 hours but no instrument rating but still. its a bad year.

Non-instrument rated pilot on your policy brings less carriers willing to quote.  Your $1MM smooth with Old Republic was likely due to a good broker calling in a favor for you.

[Parker_Woodruff]

15 hours ago, PT20J said:

@Parker_Woodruff can you suggest the actions any of us might take to be considered a better risk?

Skip

If you're talking about from a rating perspective, it depends on the insurance company.

Regardless of insurance...

- Annual IPC for instrument rated pilots (USAIG offers a discount for this)

- Starr gives discounts for completing a complete phase of the WINGS program within the previous 12 months.

- Annual instrument training for VFR-only pilots

- Fly with a CFI who knows your make/model once or twice per year.

- Fly a good amount of hours per year.  When I worked for an insurance carrier they let us use the company airplane (C182) but they wanted us to fly at least 90 hours per year.

[Marauder]

15 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

If you're talking about from a rating perspective, it depends on the insurance company.

Regardless of insurance...

- Annual IPC for instrument rated pilots (USAIG offers a discount for this)

- Starr gives discounts for completing a complete phase of the WINGS program within the previous 12 months.

- Annual instrument training for VFR-only pilots

- Fly with a CFI who knows your make/model once or twice per year.

- Fly a good amount of hours per year.  When I worked for an insurance carrier they let us use the company airplane (C182) but they wanted us to fly at least 90 hours per year.

Thanks for sharing this Parker. I have been with USAIG for a long time (maybe 25+ years). I never was asked on the annual application form for whether I had an IPC or anything time with an instructor. How do I get this information to USAIG if I am working through a broker like Falcon?

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Thanks for sharing this Parker. I have been with USAIG for a long time (maybe 25+ years). I never was asked on the annual application form for whether I had an IPC or anything time with an instructor. How do I get this information to USAIG if I am working through a broker like Falcon?

If their renewal application doesn't ask if you've received an IPC in the last 12 months, make sure to let them know.  Also, confirm with them they checked that box in USAIG's quoting system before binding your renewal.

[larrynimmo]

I started shopping today...I spoke with Avemco and there price for 1m,100k,100k 135k hull is $2,650.

66yo...no incidents670hrs, ifr rated..upcoming biannual and 3rd class before date of policy

they wanted to know my airframe and engine hours as well as a listing of my avionics.  They didn’t seem to care that I added a landing height system.

they never asked me my hours for past 12 months...

my current policy with bwi/ old republic is $1924...but am expecting it will go up....if it goes up much, I may well go with Avemco as they seem to take care of older reliable pilots...

[RobertGary1]

On 1/21/2021 at 9:13 AM, Parker_Woodruff said:

If their renewal application doesn't ask if you've received an IPC in the last 12 months, make sure to let them know.  Also, confirm with them they checked that box in USAIG's quoting system before binding your renewal.

Can you max out? I'm on phase 12 of Wings, get IPCs every year (these things are part of being a CAP check pilot examiner). But my agent says I'm already maxed out on discounts and getting the min rate. I even asked about getting my ATP and he said it wouldn't affect me.

 

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

16 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Can you max out? I'm on phase 12 of Wings, get IPCs every year (these things are part of being a CAP check pilot examiner). But my agent says I'm already maxed out on discounts and getting the min rate. I even asked about getting my ATP and he said it wouldn't affect me.

 

-Robert

ATP 99% of the time won't help you for a SE piston aircraft.  I don't know what carrier you're with, so I don't know if you're maxed out on discounts.  It's all carrier dependent.  But each carrier has a set number of discounts they give...

[RobertGary1]

58 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

ATP 99% of the time won't help you for a SE piston aircraft.  I don't know what carrier you're with, so I don't know if you're maxed out on discounts.  It's all carrier dependent.  But each carrier has a set number of discounts they give...

Random question but I carry two separate policies. Maybe they can never be combined. One allows discounts, the other is fixed price.

1) My Mooney policy for personal use.

2) Renters policy to include experimental gliders with CAP endorsement and flight instructor liability for gliders and SE.

Is it typical most people carry two policies? #2 has a small discount for Wings but otherwise doesn't care about hours, experience.

-Robert

[Parker_Woodruff]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

Random question but I carry two separate policies. Maybe they can never be combined. One allows discounts, the other is fixed price.

1) My Mooney policy for personal use.

2) Renters policy to include experimental gliders with CAP endorsement and flight instructor liability for gliders and SE.

Is it typical most people carry two policies? #2 has a small discount for Wings but otherwise doesn't care about hours, experience.

-Robert

Can't get the CFI non-owned on your personal policy.  The non-owned coverage to include gliders is possible.

[David Lloyd]

After a 60% jump last May, I got a letter for the insurance company last week warning of a substantial increase on renewal.

At some point, enough will be enough.

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Can't get the CFI non-owned on your personal policy.  The non-owned coverage to include gliders is possible.

I've found you have to dig into the non-owned policies closely. Many require at least one engine. Many do not cover experimental, etc.

[MooneyMitch]

48 minutes ago, David Lloyd said:

After a 60% jump last May, I got a letter for the insurance company last week warning of a substantial increase on renewal.

At some point, enough will be enough.

Very disturbing!

[Parker_Woodruff]

51 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I've found you have to dig into the non-owned policies closely. Many require at least one engine. Many do not cover experimental, etc.

And on the other hand, some will let you fly something up to 40 seats...

[ZuluZulu]

On 1/20/2021 at 5:10 PM, Parker_Woodruff said:

come back next year with 100 RG and I bet you're in the low $2000s or better.

Would you predict a similar reduction for "Pilot Pete"?

Pilot Pete in 2020: 34, 150 TT, PP only (no IFR), 1.1 COMP/RG, 1.1 M20P.  Premium: $3700 on $160k hull

Pilot Pete in 2021: 35, ~280+ TT, PP (hopefully w/IR before renewal due in July), 132.1 COMP/RG, 132.1 M20P

[Parker_Woodruff]

3 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Would you predict a similar reduction for "Pilot Pete"?

Pilot Pete in 2020: 34, 150 TT, PP only (no IFR), 1.1 COMP/RG, 1.1 M20P.  Premium: $3700 on $160k hull

Pilot Pete in 2021: 35, ~280+ TT, PP (hopefully w/IR before renewal due in July), 132.1 COMP/RG, 132.1 M20P

You'll probably get a reduction, but not as much as the other guy since he was already up at 600+ total time.

At today's rates, you'd be in the low $2000s with 500 total time, instrument rated, and 100+ retract.

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, David Lloyd said:

After a 60% jump last May, I got a letter for the insurance company last week warning of a substantial increase on renewal.

At some point, enough will be enough.

I’ve already decided if they bump my rates again this year I’m going liability only or selling the C and sticking with a partnership in the other. 

[RobertGary1]

I know a lot of fbos that have gone to liability only and have renters and CFIs carry insurance for Hull. Obviously there is a hole there but it’s a measured risk. 

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, RobertGary1 said:

I know a lot of fbos that have gone to liability only and have renters and CFIs carry insurance for Hull. Obviously there is a hole there but it’s a measured risk. 

Local FBO did this. Worked fine until someone stole a plane and crashed it.

[Ron McBride]

On 10/7/2020 at 9:10 PM, MikeOH said:

Those situations are what the override was for.

Would eliminating gear-ups offset the few situations you describe?

What's the data show for those Arrows?  Anyone know how many Arrows with the auto-extend have landed gear up?  I'll bet it's NONE. (Mechanical failures excepted)

I think it failed to 'catch-on' because 'real' pilots didn't like a decision being made for them.  Even though the system was better at it than they were! 

I watched an Arrow land at Orange County airport, gear up until very short final. One made it down, 2 up.  Bent plane after the ground loop. 
 

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I know a lot of fbos that have gone to liability only and have renters and CFIs carry insurance for Hull. Obviously there is a hole there but it’s a measured risk. 

Problem here is if you add up all the people who buy a liability policy to rent at the company, it's more expensive than it is if the flight school simply bought the policy themselves and raised the rate to cover it. That's the 80 different people have to buy a $400 policy a year,  thats 32K. Yes, I always wondered, if a flight school is too cheap to insure their own airplanes what else are they skipping out on? dual magneto overhauls? inspections?  Maintenance?

Edited February 19, 2021 by jetdriven

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, Ron McBride said:

I watched an Arrow land at Orange County airport, gear up until very short final. One made it down, 2 up.  Bent plane after the ground loop. 
 

Do you know if it had the auto-extend installed? And, was it disabled?

[Parker_Woodruff]

7 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

. Yes, I always wondered, if a flight school is too cheap to insure their own airplanes what else are they skipping out on? dual magneto overhauls? inspections?  Maintenance?

I get the same uninsured flight school calling in South Florida every year right as a hurricane is threatening. They claim to have no loss history but I know people whose records about them indicate otherwise. 
 

They’re always wanting me to lie to insurance companies about the true details on their risk. You’d think they’d stop, but it’s likely they’ll call again around August.

They just expect some young guy with a business startup to eat their problems. 

[Ron McBride]

10 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Do you know if it had the auto-extend installed? And, was it disabled?

I don’t know for sure, it was probably 1972, auto-extend was popular then.   If pilot realized gear was up, he should have gone around.