Crushed by winds.... what was your worst?

[wcb]

This Saturday from Houston to Raleih NC I thought I was being crushed with headwinds of about 30+ kts.  Then on Sunday I found out was being crushed felt like.   I true out in a reasonable cruise setting of 158/159 kts (with RayJay turbo I can dial it up a little but like to keep MP reasonable).   So here it is according the the Avidyne IFD 540 I am getting my standard 160ish TAS and my ground speed at one point hung around the 90 to 100 kts level as low as 88.  We check for all the other flight levels and all levels were just getting crushed.  The only way around it would have been to scud run and I am not a scud runner.  Thoughts?  What is your worst crushing?

[SantosDumont]

I've had that before coming back from San Diego to Vegas.  It was night and it was kind of unnerving.  Could have been worse though.  Could have been in a 172 doing 40 kts ground speed.

[wcb]

6 minutes ago, SantosDumont said:

I've had that before coming back from San Diego to Vegas.  It was night and it was kind of unnerving.  Could have been worse though.  Could have been in a 172 doing 40 kts ground speed.

I have hovered a 152.  Slow flight training into a 40kts'ish head wind.

[Immelman]

30 minutes ago, wcb said:

 Thoughts?  What is your worst crushing?

205 knots on the nose last winter. Boston to the west coast.

[Ibra]

Above +30kts winds your may surprisingly notice that ground speed is no longer true airspeed + wind speed, unless everything is smooth like silk

The obvious reasons are turbulence, wind-sheer and vertical updrafts/waves air movements (how to "efficiently" fly along these: same pitch? same IAS? same AoA? but rule of thumbs are slow in turbulence, fast in sink, slow in updraft)

Less obvious relates to aircraft aerodynamics: drag/power are non-linear (convex curves of speed): speed you get grows with power but not as much as one thinks, so when power vary around some average value, average speed is less than the speed at that average power (or when speed vary around some value, average drag is higher than drag at average speed, something you can blame on a Danish guy named Johan Jensen...)

My worst was 20kts GS in a C172 !

In a Mooney, I recall around 50kts but I had to slow down not to lose my teeth

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Ibra

[rbridges]

I remember what got me into a mooney.  I was flying back from Hilton Head Island in a cherokee 180.  I remember my ground speed was in the upper-60's.   I knew it was time for a retrac at that point.

[steingar]

Yesterday I go the shit kicked out of me.  Just a local flight to a watering hole to kick off the rust.  Half hour out and ten minutes back.  Turbulent as could be, my ground speed on the way out was about 80 knots.  I had been thinking I ought not to do the flight, but the long period of inactivity (haven't flown since Christmas) and uncertainty of future VFR weather made me go for it.  Got kicked around hard, and could barely keep the airplane lined up with the runway.  Did manage a textbook crosswind landing, hurray me.

Coming home I got way behind the airplane.  Like I said, about ten minutes flight time, don't remember the groundspeed.  On final I was hearing the stall horn chirp going 100 miles an hour.  Landing had a bit of a side load, errant gust.  

All in all, I'm glad I went. Flying and landing those conditions are a real confidence builder, not that I'm i a hurry to do it again.  And who knows when we'll have VFR weather again.

[Mooney217RN]

In early June of 2018, flying my new Ovation back from the east coast, we were seeing 45 kts + off the nose heading westbound from D.C. to the Nebraska/Wyoming border.  That took some time off the trip.

I have seen 50 kts off the tail locally.

WARNING - The worst winds I ever experienced were in advance of a dry cold front, which around my neck of the woods produce the worst turbulence too.  I was cruising along with a solid 30-35 kt tailwind, smooth.  Reached Donner Summit in my E Model, and the plane rolled so severely to the left that I thought the plane was going to invert on me.  Right foot jammed the rudder and righted the aircraft, then severe turbulence into TRK.  Damage to the aircraft from the turbulence.  I am surprised I landed it safely.  The underside of the aircraft had a ripple in the skin aft of the cowling the size of my hand.

Don't mess with severe winds, these planes weren't designed for it.

[Hank]

Visited the inlaws at KFAY one not-so-beautiful spring. Delayed Sunday return due to Emergency PIREP of icing along the airway in southern WV [I was still in furthest WV, based at KHTW]. Flew home on Monday, the long way around:  KFAY-KGSP-KTYS-KLEX-KHTW! Winds were howling out of the west. Went across NC at 4000 msl until I had to climb for terrain, hovering around 105 kts GS. Climbed to 6000 and watched GS fall; halfway to Knoxville there is 6000+ terrain so we climbed to 9000 and watched GS fall more. OAT was hovering around 30ºF and i was weaving between cloudtops at sunset so asked for 10,000 to fly almost straight. Didn't think to check the wind component, but GS was down to 68 knots at 10,000. Power was my standard WOT- and 2500; should have been indicating around 135-140 mph [135 + 20% = 162 mph = 141 KTAS as a lower estimated value]. At least it was fairly smooth.

My wife actually said, "Good thing we aren't in a Cessna! We'd never get home!" 

Trip was 2.2 hours outbound, KHTW-KFAY direct; the return trip was 4:45 and used 41 gallons . . . . . 

Edited February 3, 2020 by Hank

[ilovecornfields]

20 minutes ago, Mooney217RN said:

In early June of 2018, flying my new Ovation back from the east coast, we were seeing 45 kts + off the nose heading westbound from D.C. to the Nebraska/Wyoming border.  That took some time off the trip.

I have seen 50 kts off the tail locally.

WARNING - The worst winds I ever experienced were in advance of a dry cold front, which around my neck of the woods produce the worst turbulence too.  I was cruising along with a solid 30-35 kt tailwind, smooth.  Reached Donner Summit in my E Model, and the plane rolled so severely to the left that I thought the plane was going to invert on me.  Right foot jammed the rudder and righted the aircraft, then severe turbulence into TRK.  Damage to the aircraft from the turbulence.  I am surprised I landed it safely.  The underside of the aircraft had a ripple in the skin aft of the cowling the size of my hand.

Don't mess with severe winds, these planes weren't designed for it.

Sounds exciting! I don’t fly in the mountains when the winds over the ridgetops are much more than 20 kts. Mountain wave and rotor are more excitement than I care for.

When I got my Ovation I went to Minden and did some mountain flying with a local instructor. Money well spent! He did mention that frontal passage + mountains = trouble. He recommended this book as well which I really liked:

Mountain Flying Bible Revised https://www.amazon.com/dp/1880568179/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_25foEbQPPYWYM

[Shadrach]

I have muddled through XCs at <100kts.  Once when headed from Central MD to Troy, MI I saw speeds dip below 90GS. That 300nm trip took around 3.5 with weather deviations and wind. As @SantosDumont mentioned, it would be much worse in a C172 struggling to maintain 50kts.  On the up side, I have seen nearly 100kts on the tail on a few occasions.

[N201MKTurbo]

Anything with triple digits is a good day. I've had cars passing me on the highway below. 

The lowest ground speed I ever got was 5 Kts, but that was just out playing around in the wind. There were plenty of trips that I could have gotten a negative ground speed, but in all cases I just wanted to get there and had no ambition to play around.

[Hank]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I have muddled through XCs at <100kts.  Once when headed from Central MD to Troy, MI I saw speeds dip below 90GS. That 300nm trip took around 3.5 with weather deviations and wind. As @SantosDumont mentioned, it would be much worse in a C172 struggling to maintain 50kts.  On the up side, I have seen nearly 100kts on the tail on a few occasions.

My sustained level-flight ground speed envelope is 68-186 knots; in all cases, ~145 KTAS.

[Mooney217RN]

18 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Sounds exciting! I don’t fly in the mountains when the winds over the ridgetops are much more than 20 kts. Mountain wave and rotor are more excitement than I care for.

When I got my Ovation I went to Minden and did some mountain flying with a local instructor. Money well spent! He did mention that frontal passage + mountains = trouble.

Your instructor taught you well.

A good website you need for flying around here - https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/rev/remotedata/screst.php

Pick your location, get the winds in near real time.

I have been a high country aviator my entire life, and you don't want to deal with mountain wave, rotor winds and the local turbulence no matter how accustomed you are to it.  Add in density altitude, updrafts, downdrafts and wind shear, and you're just asking for trouble.

People don't realize that the east slope of the Sierra Nevada range is one of the most turbulent, windy and challenging areas to fly in around the nation.  Use extreme caution around here.

[bradp]

Seeing cars on the highway start at 4 o’clock and end up at 2 o’clock in a Pa-28 from VGT to BUR. 

[RLCarter]

52 kts on the nose in a 172, could have drove the trip up faster in my truck. As luck would have it, winds died off that afternoon, so no FREE speed coming home 

Edited February 4, 2020 by RLCarter

[gsxrpilot]

The flight home from MHK several weeks back was pretty sustained 40 knots on the nose. It was the entire 3 hour or so flight.

Landing at ABI late one night I turned final to find 50 knots on the nose straight down the runway. I made the first turn off.

Saturday afternoon while returning from DRO to Denver (BJC), I landed on 30R. While turning Final, Tower reported "Wind 270@34G41" 

I'm certainly learning a lot more about wind after moving to Denver.

[Ibra]

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

Mountain Flying Bible Revised https://www.amazon.com/dp/1880568179/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_25foEbQPPYWYM

Thanks for the ref, looks worth a read for practical flying than just wisdom
I am not trying in a Mooney, bit too fast and stiff for mountain flying?

1 hour ago, ilovecornfields said:

frontal passage + mountains = trouble

Did he mean the wisdom of not mixing dragons & sirens?

I was told once to enjoy hunting the whale (fly mountain waves) but don't get charmed by sirens (frontal clouds and windward stratus/lenticular) or fall into dragons hand (turbulence and leeward rotors)

 

[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, wcb said:

This Saturday from Houston to Raleih NC I thought I was being crushed with headwinds of about 30+ kts.  Then on Sunday I found out was being crushed felt like.   I true out in a reasonable cruise setting of 158/159 kts (with RayJay turbo I can dial it up a little but like to keep MP reasonable).   So here it is according the the Avidyne IFD 540 I am getting my standard 160ish TAS and my ground speed at one point hung around the 90 to 100 kts level as low as 88.  We check for all the other flight levels and all levels were just getting crushed.  The only way around it would have been to scud run and I am not a scud runner.  Thoughts?  What is your worst crushing?

I saw 35 knots ground speed over General Fox field, IFR and eventually couldn't hold altitude.  Very localized, not forcast and others 10 miles away didn't find the same. After a couple miles past the ridge it all cleared up.

-Robert

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Mooney217RN said:

Your instructor taught you well.

A good website you need for flying around here - https://www.wrh.noaa.gov/rev/remotedata/screst.php

Pick your location, get the winds in near real time.

I have been a high country aviator my entire life, and you don't want to deal with mountain wave, rotor winds and the local turbulence no matter how accustomed you are to it.  Add in density altitude, updrafts, downdrafts and wind shear, and you're just asking for trouble.

People don't realize that the east slope of the Sierra Nevada range is one of the most turbulent, windy and challenging areas to fly in around the nation.  Use extreme caution around here.

There’s a reason Minden is a worldwide destination for gliders in the winter and it’s not the cuisine or the sandy beaches!

You can take gliders into the 30s or higher in the wave along the Sierras there.  I got my ppl at Minden and have flown gliders there although not in wave... the summer thermals are real strong too!

[aviatoreb]

Once about 12 years ago, there was a day with maybe 35-40kts on the ground, but not gusty too much, and my then CFI had a little yellow Piper Cub.  He said lets go out and do some vtol.  And we did!  It lifted off almost vertically.  And we flew 2 miles to over my house - which took a while in the head wind and I called my wife on the cell phone along the way and said, Hey Liz we are flying slowly up leroy street.  Get the kids outside and look for a yellow airplane.  When we got there at maybe 1000ft the kids were outside waving and Liz and we managed to literally hover over the house.

 

[Denver98]

This was 3 years ago on a flight from PHL to SEA.  Took over 6 hours, painful!  

[flight2000]

I had ~50 knots on the nose yesterday at 6500 feet heading NW out of Richmond, which worked out to 114 kts ground speed.   It was nice a smooth, but slow.  Flipped a 180 and ground speed jumped to 214 knots...  Friend on mine went from Detroit to just south of D.C. in his V35B with IO550 and Flightaware had him at 244 kts ground speed at 9,000 which was ~74 knot tailwind.  For once, it worked out for him...

It's always fun checking out what's happening via the Windy website.  https://www.windy.com/?900h,41.870,-98.262,4

Cheers,

Brian

[marcusku]

I had my best and worst this last Sunday when I flew from C29 to KLUK.  Took just under 2 hours to get there and over 3 going back.  The ride was rough for about 30 min leaving LUK but after that reasonably smooth, just slow.  I noted on the someone else flying close to my course doing 65 kts GS at the time I was about 110.  I was good with my 110 after seeing that. 

[steingar]

Years ago I did land my Cessna 150 in a direct 24 knot crosswind.  I was coming back from Oshkosh, over Indiana and had a bunch of t-storms pop up all around me.  Diverted to one of the long runways they have there, landed at full throttle, bled off all the speed in ground effect.  Used a lot of that big runway doing it. Still, got out of and waited out the storms.