Was I wrong? Refused to taxi or park on grass at Sun n Fun

[FloridaMan]

Had an altercation with the ushers today. I flew the Rocket in. It had rained all morning and was raining when I landed. I was told beforehand by two separate individuals to request "Heavy Aircraft Parking." The usher saw my sign and shrugged and asked me to explain. I'm yelling out the window that the airplane has a larger prop and a heavier engine and I cannot park on grass. He doubles down and say "we have it, but not for a Mooney." I saluted him through the open window and followed the ATV to parking where they told me to park on grass. I shut down and refused. They take a few minutes, figure things out and found a paved spot for me. 

As I was walking back to my plane I stopped and spoke with some of the ushers and asked how I could prevent the disagreement arriving in the future. The old guy in his EAA hat argues with me about how it wouldn't happen in a Mooney and I wouldn't be at risk of a prop strike, so on and soforth. I dropped the discussion and figured I'd just fly the other plane out there if I came back. 

[MrRodgers]

Had an altercation with the ushers today. I flew the Rocket in. It had rained all morning and was raining when I landed. I was told beforehand by two separate individuals to request "Heavy Aircraft Parking." The usher saw my sign and shrugged and asked me to explain. I'm yelling out the window that the airplane has a larger prop and a heavier engine and I cannot park on grass. He doubles down and say "we have it, but not for a Mooney." I saluted him through the open window and followed the ATV to parking where they told me to park on grass. I shut down and refused. They take a few minutes, figure things out and found a paved spot for me. 
As I was walking back to my plane I stopped and spoke with some of the ushers and asked how I could prevent the disagreement arriving in the future. The old guy in his EAA hat argues with me about how it wouldn't happen in a Mooney and I wouldn't be at risk of a prop strike, so on and soforth. I dropped the discussion and figured I'd just fly the other plane out there if I came back. 

As PIC you have every right to carry that responsibility all the way to your parking spot. The word “unable” is a complete sentence. Have a great time.


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[LANCECASPER]

This is one of the many reasons I landed at Zephyrhills (KZPH).

The volunteers are hard working at these shows but if given just a little authority, they love to exercise it. 

Zephyrhills had Enterprise right at the FBO, parking was $25 total no matter how many days you parked. Gas was $4.10 and it was not a circus getting in or out of the field. I just don't wanna be part of the airshow.

[MIm20c]

An honest question. Is the nose wheel to prop distance or weight any different than a bravo?  What about the distance between the nose wheel and main gear?  

I normally follow @LANCECASPER ‘s advice and use a close airport (bartow). Hotels and rental cars are so easy in that area and I just don’t get the camping vibe like I do at OSH. 

[whiskytango]

Chances are that you understand the limitations of your aircraft better than a marshal.  If you did have a prop strike due to loss of prop clearance in saturated ground, the marshal would have said "Sorry, my mistake", but your insurance company would still be out a lot of money.  PIC has the final say in the matter.  Your were not wrong.

[Yetti]

9 inches between the ground and $50,000.    I think you chose well.

[Shadrach]

It’s your plane and your engine. Probably best to err on the side of caution. However, I don’t think you should be surprised that ground personnel look at you sort of odd when you request heavy aircraft parking. You don’t have a heavy aircraft. It has the same nose gear and prop clearance that many factory six-cylinder Mooneys.  I frequently land on grass and have no problems taxiing and parking on it. 9 inches is plenty of clearance until you hit a hole.  If that’s something you’re concerned about, you should be concerned about it whether it’s wet or dry.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Shadrach

[EricJ]

You're able to fly away with your prop and engine undamaged, so that's evidence of a good move on your part.

I'm reminded of the Oshkosh incident with the DC-3 where a J-3 taxiing behind got blown away during the DC-3 runup.   Marshals initially blamed the DC-3 pilot, who was up against the hold short line onto the runway...wasn't really any place else he could have done the runup.

[BKlott]

1 hour ago, nosky2high said:

My wife and I flew down early Wednesday morning for a day trip and are flying down again tomorrow morning for the rest of the show. Hopefully the Vintage Plane camping area isn’t too wet. We are always very careful and have refused parking spots at times. 

PIC always.

I walked through there today around noon and the ground seemed to be in pretty good shape.

[N9201A]

As PIC you have every right to carry that responsibility all the way to your parking spot. The word “unable” is a complete sentence.

THIS!!

That said, assuming grass good shape AND marshaler competent to keep you away from chuckholes/threats, a Rocket is fine on grass. You’ll see plenty of Mooneys on the N40 at OSH.

But your AC, your decision.

[Bravoman]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

This is one of the many reasons I landed at Zephyrhills (KZPH).

The volunteers are hard working at these shows but if given just a little authority, they love to exercise it. 

Zephyrhills had Enterprise right at the FBO, parking was $25 total no matter how many days you parked. Gas was $4.10 and it was not a circus getting in or out of the field. I just don't wanna be part of the airshow.

 Couldn’t agree more. Plus you come and go as you please. I did a “hit and run” at the show on Tuesday ( i.e. just stopped in for a few hours)  and flew into Bartow.

[DAVIDWH]

LARRY THE CABLE GUY WOULD BE PROUD OF YOU:

"GET ER DONE".

[rbridges]

Go have a prop strike and ask them to pay.  You'll hear the sound of criçkets chirping.  

[Jim Peace]

Okay here is the deal...they parked me in Vintage a few years back and it took weeks to remove the grass stains.  And it was the year they came up with the smart idea to not cut the grass.  Walking around was horrible

I was there this past Wednesday and I parked at the FBO.  They have a free shuttle that takes you on the service road to the show, the guy drove us at 1mph in a van and it took forever.  I was one of about 10 airplanes there.  If I were not in a Mooney I would park on the grass for convenience if you want to go back and forth to your plane with stuff you buy.  The van drops you off at tram stop 10. its kind of at an outpost in the middle of nowhere,,,still must walk a lot to get your tickets

To park at the FBO you must ignore the tower instructions to turn towards the show...just do your own thing and go to the FBO.  Make sure you call them ahead on the phone so they know you are coming and you work out the fees first.

Leaving you contact normal ground on 121.4 I think and they direct you...I was out in less than 15 minutes from start up....

I may go again on Sunday

Also we saw most of the last hour of the airshow from the FBO ramp and it has a 10 times better view....

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

All the planes at Bartow KBOW were parked on pavement.  Parking was $5 per day. 

[Marauder]

All the planes at Bartow KBOW were parked on pavement.  Parking was $5 per day. 

Even for the behemoth you fly?


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[FloridaMan]

3 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

All the planes at Bartow KBOW were parked on pavement.  Parking was $5 per day. 

How do you get to KLAL from KBOW?

[Hank]

Taxiing in the grass is fine, but if the ground is saturated, all bets are off. I stayed an extra day at SnF once, going home on Sunday because it was so wet from rain on Wednesday and Thursday. While I was checking the ground around the plane Saturday morning, I was an ear witness to a big Cessna taxi in, bog down, power up and splat! Prop strike! The entire nose wheel was buried in the ground, the pilot's eyes were bugged out and face pale . . . We were all horrified . . .

Granted, our Mooney gear won't compress like that, but a heavy nose can still bog down the wheel.

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Hum.  The Rocket almost certainly does have more weight on the nosewheel than any other Mooney, including the long bodies.  Definitely something to consider.  

Jim

True, but one should also considered that Mooney pilots vary in weight as does Cg. So depending on what’s in the back, the weight on the nose varies quite a bit from plane to plane as does the same plane with different loads. Presumably any certified aircraft has accounted for those variances.  I fault no one for choosing to keep their plane out of grass. However, I stand by the notion that it’s silly to land at a huge gathering like Sun & Fun with the expectation that you’ll be taken seriously when you ask for “heavy aircraft” parking for your 2500lb Mooney.  Better to make arrangements to land elsewhere or pre-arrange parking. The usher that’s likely parked dozens of Mooneys (maybe hundreds if he’s an “old guy in an EAA hat”) in the grass is going to be understandably confused by the guy in a light single flashing his “heavy aircraft parking” request. To most airplane people, “heavy aircraft” weigh quite a bit more than a light weight sports car and have three digit tire pressure ratings.

Edited April 6, 2019 by Shadrach

[Jerry 5TJ]

4 hours ago, FloridaMan said:

How do you get to KLAL from KBOW?

Enterprise has a table set up in the FBO lobby for SnF week.  The red Corvette had just gone out but a rental Sentra was available.   

[Bob_Belville]

We parked in row 5 Vintage from Monday to Thursday. Taxiing was fine, about like OSH.

I probably made 6 or 8 trips to the plane during our stay... Vintage is free parking and close to a gate.

There was a shower or 2 while we were parked so the tires were sunk in the turf. I had not put anything under the wheels so I had to have some help pulling the plane clear before startup.

Departure would have been 5 minutes except the Blue Angels arrived 2 hours early and we were held #4 in line for 9 right.


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[Jim Peace]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I had not put anything under the wheels so I had to have some help pulling the plane clear before startup.

Last time I went to the dollar store and bought 3 cheap plastic kitchen cutting boards to put under the tires.  We left with no issues and others had to be pulled out like you wrote...

[Bob_Belville]

Last time I went to the dollar store and bought 3 cheap plastic kitchen cutting boards to put under the tires.  We left with no issues and others had to be pulled out like you wrote...

Yeah, I know better.


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[Mooney in Oz]

On 4/6/2019 at 10:56 AM, FloridaMan said:

They take a few minutes, figure things out and found a paved spot for me.

You are as much the PIC on the ground as in the air.

Good decision.

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Mooney in Oz said:

You are as much the PIC on the ground as in the air.

Good decision.

There are limits. Try insisting that you get to park between the Blue Angels or in the P51 line.

Sun 'n Fun (and AirVenture) means parking on grass for the hundreds (thousands) of fly in planes. If that's not acceptable I need to park at another field and commute or make a reservation and pay to park at the FBO.