M20C panel upgrade?

[wings_level]

Not a great shot but it is a shot of my center panel.  I having been debating this for a while now.  Garmin 650 of 750.  1966 M20C fully IFR machine.  Stec-30 autopilot and engine monitor.  I always file IFR on trips.  Now I do use the iPad with foreflight.  But kinda like the flitecharts and large screen on the 750. I am looking at removing the KLN89B and one radio and sticking 750 there with remote 345 transponder, or sticking a 650 there with 345 transponder below it.  It is about a $5k difference in cost from 650 to 750.  Any one else out there that can sway me one way or the other?  

 

[Marauder]

Not a great shot but it is a shot of my center panel.  I having been debating this for a while now.  Garmin 650 of 750.  1966 M20C fully IFR machine.  Stec-30 autopilot and engine monitor.  I always file IFR on trips.  Now I do use the iPad with foreflight.  But kinda like the flitecharts and large screen on the 750. I am looking at removing the KLN89B and one radio and sticking 750 there with remote 345 transponder, or sticking a 650 there with 345 transponder below it.  It is about a $5k difference in cost from 650 to 750.  Any one else out there that can sway me one way or the other?  
 

If you don’t have plans on going glass, I would go with the 750. For me the 650, is a great data entry (even less so with a Flightstream loading stuff up). Everything I need is on the Aspens.


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[Niko182]

8 minutes ago, wings_level said:

Not a great shot but it is a shot of my center panel.  I having been debating this for a while now.  Garmin 650 of 750.  1966 M20C fully IFR machine.  Stec-30 autopilot and engine monitor.  I always file IFR on trips.  Now I do use the iPad with foreflight.  But kinda like the flitecharts and large screen on the 750. I am looking at removing the KLN89B and one radio and sticking 750 there with remote 345 transponder, or sticking a 650 there with 345 transponder below it.  It is about a $5k difference in cost from 650 to 750.  Any one else out there that can sway me one way or the other?  

 

I'd do the 750, 345R, and a PMA450B audio panel. you can probably get a couple grand after selling the radio, GPS, and transponder. Id' also consider getting an HSI. Other options include an IFD 540. every person that owns a 540 seems to love them.

[Bob_Belville]

I like the 750 for the large display for charts, traffic, and Nexrad. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

A 750 is my suggestion.   

In the tight panel of the C the remote 345 works well.  

I like the remote audio panel better than the panel mount as the 750’s on-screen audio menus are much easier to understand and operate.  

[ArtVandelay]

I like the 750 for the large display for charts, traffic, and Nexrad. 

Yes, you needed the larger screen, it’s not like you don’t have other devices that can display this information?!

 

And another Aspen we can’t see, and probably another phone or mini not in the picture, making up to 6 screens you have available.

 

Tom

 

[donkaye]

Having both the 750 and 650, if you can afford the 750 that would be the way to go.  Just know that on resale of the C model you won't recover a lot of the cost, but the value to you in-between makes that a moot point in my opinion.  The remote 345 is a good choice.  I would spend the few thousand dollars on the GMA 35C audio panel.  Put in the PTT switch and don't look back with telligence voice commands.

[m20kmooney]

Absolutely the 750 with remote 345 and 35C. 

[wings_level]

Wow.These are all greats thoughts. I have been kinda leaning toward the 750. It makes it tough to sink that kind of money in a 66 C model.  About $25k for 750 and 345R.  But I really don’t have have any plans to upgrade to another plane anytime soon.  

Edited February 9, 2019 by wings_level

[KLRDMD]

As has been mentioned, don't rule out the Avidynes. The 550 is an awesome box and in my opinion far superior to a Garmin 750.

[wings_level]

10 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

As has been mentioned, don't rule out the Avidynes. The 550 is an awesome box and in my opinion far superior to a Garmin 750.

Good point.  I will be researching those a little more closely.  Guess I just always thought Garmin was the way to go.

[gsxrpilot]

I chose the IFD540 almost three years ago and would make the same decision again today. No question about it.

[KLRDMD]

I've upgraded three airplanes from Garmin to Avidyne. 

[M016576]

2 hours ago, donkaye said:

Having both the 750 and 650, if you can afford the 750 that would be the way to go.  Just know that on resale of the C model you won't recover a lot of the cost, 

An even more compelling reason to go with an avidyne IFD440 with WiFi and BT... you wouldn’t lose nearly as much when you sell, and have pretty much all the same capability/functionality.

[carusoam]

Goofy thoughts usually come in threes....

1) Adding decent technology to an M20C is like adding decent technology to any other fancy plane.... the plane will outlive the technology.

2) Garmin makes the most expensive equipment... expensive doesn’t alway mean better.

3) Short body Mooneys can’t be forever planes..? They make great retirement planes.

 

Would it be any easier to spend the same dough on an M20R? Probably not... 

Buy the technology you are going to use... not to sell years from now...

Wings-Level, you have been approved to spend your dough, the way you would like...

We’ll be here to help... 

Best regards,

-a-

[NotarPilot]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

Goofy thoughts usually come in threes....

1) Adding decent technology to an M20C is like adding decent technology to any other fancy plane.... the plane will outlive the technology.

2) Garmin makes the most expensive equipment... expensive doesn’t alway mean better.

3) Short body Mooneys can’t be forever planes..? They make great retirement planes.

 

Would it be any easier to spend the same dough on an M20R? Probably not... 

Buy the technology you are going to use... not to sell years from now...

Wings-Level, you have been approved to spend your dough, the way you would like...

We’ll be here to help... 

Best regards,

-a-

That’s some great advice here.

[wings_level]

Ok so, I have expanded the work scope.  See pics below.  Please let me know your thoughts?  Too much for a '66 "C" model?  What would you do differently?  I am just making this up as I go. If I am gonna upgrade the gps, might as well do it all. I don't have any plans to get rid of the plane anytime soon.  It's just me and the Misses.  May end up having to do it in phases. Phase 1 - Center, Phase 2 - Left panel, Phase 3 - Right panel.  Something like that maybe.  Anyway, I am completely open to suggestions.be.

[Baker Avionics]

17 minutes ago, wings_level said:

Ok so, I have expanded the work scope.  See pics below.  Please let me know your thoughts?  Too much for a '66 "C" model?  What would you do differently?  I am just making this up as I go. If I am gonna upgrade the gps, might as well do it all. I don't have any plans to get rid of the plane anytime soon.  It's just me and the Misses.  May end up having to do it in phases. Phase 1 - Center, Phase 2 - Left panel, Phase 3 - Right panel.  Something like that maybe.  Anyway, I am completely open to suggestions.be.

Questions:

Where are you planning on getting this done?

What is the time frame?

Can you email me these pics at the email below with a return email and contact info?

 

Now, suggestion:

Move the suction gauge and the "Idiot Lights" where the GPS Annunciator is currently and/or slide your "Idiot Lights" up, just above the AI G5 if there is room.  Personally, I would slide the "Backup Gauges" under the EDM for Aesthetics as it would line up pretty well and then you will have a cleaner, less busy looking, Right Hand Panel and then the Area Mount would fit in the middle and/or do a RAM Mount for an IPad in which it can display info for you and act as another EFIS Screen.

 

Just Spitballing here,  

[Steve W]

I'd make the 'suction mount' actually be a nice AMPS style hole pattern so that a RAM ball could be mounted there for more security. I'd also consider having the AI in the top slot instead of the bottom if you actually want to use it as a backup.

[wings_level]

16 minutes ago, Steve W said:

I'd make the 'suction mount' actually be a nice AMPS style hole pattern so that a RAM ball could be mounted there for more security. I'd also consider having the AI in the top slot instead of the bottom if you actually want to use it as a backup.

I toyed with the AI in the top or bottom slot.  The reason I went with the bottom slot:  when I shoot an ILS I just always use the top Nav head.  That's the only logic I had.

[wings_level]

19 minutes ago, The Avionics Specialists said:

Questions:

Where are you planning on getting this done?

What is the time frame? 

Can you email me these pics at the email below with a return email and contact info?

 

Now, suggestion:

Move the suction gauge and the "Idiot Lights" where the GPS Annunciator is currently and/or slide your "Idiot Lights" up, just above the AI G5 if there is room.  Personally, I would slide the "Backup Gauges" under the EDM for Aesthetics as it would line up pretty well and then you will have a cleaner, less busy looking, Right Hand Panel and then the Area Mount would fit in the middle and/or do a RAM Mount for an IPad in which it can display info for you and act as another EFIS Screen.

 

Just Spitballing here,  

Good points.  Time frame will be to get started sometime this year.  That is as narrowed down as I have gotten.  I like the idea of the backup gauges underneath the EDM, but when I laid it out it looked like there wasn't enough room vertically.  If I did an IPad it would have to be a mini.  Don't think there is room enough for a full size IPad.

[steingar]

Get what makes you happy. Putting anything in a Ranger is senseless.  Says me put in the big expensive box.  By the time you get done with the installation the price difference will be negligible percentage wise.  Had I realized this earlier there'd be a 430 instead of a KLN94 in my panel right now.  Even putting in a KLN94 was more than I should have spent on my C, and I'll never recover any of it.

[Steve W]

8 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I toyed with the AI in the top or bottom slot.  The reason I went with the bottom slot:  when I shoot an ILS I just always use the top Nav head.  That's the only logic I had.

With the G5 you'll be following the green/magenta needles on the AI head instead in the most likely case. In my mind my #2 nav is less important than my #2 Attitude Indicator. (Admittedly I moved my backup AI to the TC spot, but that's because I don't have an STEC TC I had to keep)

 

[gsxrpilot]

11 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I toyed with the AI in the top or bottom slot.  The reason I went with the bottom slot:  when I shoot an ILS I just always use the top Nav head.  That's the only logic I had.

With the G5 HSI installed, I'll bet you'll never use that second nav head. So I'd probably put it low so that your AI's are level with each other. It makes it nice for cross checking as well as switching to the second AI if the primary fails.

[Marauder]

2 minutes ago, wings_level said:

I toyed with the AI in the top or bottom slot.  The reason I went with the bottom slot:  when I shoot an ILS I just always use the top Nav head.  That's the only logic I had.

If you are going to drop in a backup AI, why not look at something like an L-3 ESI-500? As for backup RPM/MP, I used EI primary gauges to backup the JPI 900.