Sellers remorse

[mooniac15u]

13 minutes ago, mooneac said:

 

But it does convey how well the plane was likely taken care of. To some buyers, that is a strong motivator.

That is conveyed through the pictures and thorough maintenance records.  One of the reasons brokers are so successful is that they remove the personal aspect of the seller.

[Marauder]

48 minutes ago, steingar said:

Oh for Odin's sake, I've sold two of the things.  They're things.  I have flown them, taken care of them, and done my utter best to preserve them, but when it's time to go it's time to go.  

Glad I am not your airplane. Not feeling the love. Bet you don't even thank your plane for a safe flight after you fly! 

[mooniac15u]

9 minutes ago, rdshave said:

Mooniac15u: Probably very true, but this was therapeutic for the seller.  I've tried to be completely exposed, and hopefully, no surprises about anything. ron

Marauder: Thanks for the encouragement, but we’ll have to find out if the buyer can pry the keys out of my cold dead hands.  

 

Steingar, Gary did my plane, a good friend who has been professionally doing planes for 30+ years in SoCal. He is very busy and hard to schedule new clients, but PM me and I’ll get you a phone number.

 

I understand.  Just trying to provide some unbiased feedback for whatever it's worth.  Your plane looks very nice and should be very marketable.

[rdshave]

mooniac15u: I never object to unbiased feedback and appreciate your comments. Thank you, ron

[mike_elliott]

This wont last long. Very nice plane, well cared for. Its what almost all buyers want, and some will pay for.

[Marauder]

4 minutes ago, rdshave said:

mooniac15u: I never object to unbiased feedback and appreciate your comments. Thank you, ron

I just went down your improvements list. Well done sir! You make us F owners proud. You want to sell quick? Just put the dollar amounts next to the improvements you did. I am always amazed how little value potential owners put on those things that keep an airplane in optimum shape and what upgrades cost. 

[rdshave]

My apologies to MATTS875, I didn't mean to distract from his troubles. ron

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, MATTS875 said:

I am a little old fashioned and believe a person is only as good as their word. I am old school, just the way I was raised. 

Along those lines, I sold my Mooney on Sunday. I bought a Baron in January.

Buyer gave me a (six figure) personal check, I gave him two copies of FAA8050-1 and FAA8050-2 with my part completed and a single page purchase agreement just to make our accountants happy.

I've been offered 50% of a different Mooney that I'm considering, mostly to have access to a second airplane . . .

[PTK]

4 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

That seems to be the case so far. I expanded my search to different models but I keep coming back to the 201. That is the best plane for us

I’d sell you my 201 but my copilot will not allow it!

[chrixxer]

4 hours ago, Marauder said:

I just went down your improvements list. Well done sir! You make us F owners proud. You want to sell quick? Just put the dollar amounts next to the improvements you did. I am always amazed how little value potential owners put on those things that keep an airplane in optimum shape and what upgrades cost. 

In fairness, the market largely dictates what that stuff is 'worth,' not the purchase / installation price.

That said, a big selling point for 3RM, for me, was how much stuff I wouldn't  have to have touched. Having started down that road with 4BE, I was intimately familiar with how expensive and how much of a PITA it is to fly your bird out somewhere to have avionics work done, or the tanks stripped and resealed, or an interior redone, or how much it sucks being down for a week with a flat tire, or ... People don't factor in opportunity costs, but they should.

If you have a $55,000 Mooney and put in a $25,000 autopilot, you don't now have a $80,000 Mooney, but the value is definitely increased over a plane with no autopilot, or an old unsupported AP. But if we're talking the $15,000 difference between an S-Tec 30 with altitude hold and an S-Tec 55x install with approach capture and altitude pre-select (and VSI climb), to me, it's not worth another $15K on top of the plane's price. The 55x is better, but not $15K better than the very functional 30. If I'm deciding between two planes, the 55x would be a factor, but not a deciding one; worth a premium, but not a $15K premium.

[gsxrpilot]

12 hours ago, rdshave said:

Seller’s remorse, grief, separation anxiety .... This comment hit me directly between the eyes this morning. I’ve been wrestling with selling my plane for a few months and have been putting together a website for that day. And, each morning I wake with the same arguments. For my situation it is time. But, does life really go on after an intimate relationship with a Mooney, my Mooney? (My grandkids call her Alana Charlotte.) So, shall I post her now? Here’s the site: http://m20f95v.com/

 

Reality check and comments welcome.

ron

I'd be shocked it if takes as long to sell as it took you to build that website. That is so well done. It's a beautiful M20F and obviously well cared for and priced right. I'd expect it to sell quickly.

 

[rdshave]

I'd like to thank several for offering some very wise advice here and in personal messages that I will incorporate into my site in the next few days. This is a great bunch of people! ron

[29-0363]

Let me relate my experience with owners remorse - in 2006 I placed 50K in escrow on a 2005 Ovation GX2  located in Kenosha with 46 hrs TTIS.  Mark Woods (now with Delta) was selling it on behalf of the owner, with a contract subject only to satisfactory pre-purchase inspection.  I then flew to the USA from Australia to inspect the aircraft and be present for the PPI.  All went OK except for very obvious wet wing leaks (29-0363 images folder) for which it was agreed the aircraft would be returned to Kerville for repair.  It was then arranged for my to fly to Kerville with a Mooney factory pilot, and I was to join the flight in Chicago early on a Monday.  

I then got a call from the owner about a half hour before leaving to join the flight, saying he'd changed his mind about selling and offered to pay my costs.  Now having stumped up the deposit, arranged for the balance to be ready to transfer AND flown from Australia to the USA AND paid for the PPI, I had a  limited choices.  Demand the Seller complete the deal and if he refused, take legal action?  Or walk away?   If I was a USA resident I might have insisted, but there's a lot more to life than looking backwards, so I walked.  The Seller despite his promise to pay for my PPI inspection and other costs, never did despite numerous reminders, and Mark Woods was unhelpful.

Luckily I had a Plan B in place, more for a failed PPI than Buyers Remorse.

Richard Simile from Premier had N475SP,  an Ovation GX2 with 83 hrs TTIS for sale and within 2 hrs I was on a flight to Atlanta and a bus to Auburn AL.  The deal went through without a problem, the PPI came up perfect, and within 4 or 5 days N475SP became VH-OVH on the Australian Register.  Richard was extremely helpful and made the deal go through without a hitch.

FOOTNOTE:

After 12 years and 910 TTIS, 29-0363 has just gone to a new home.  I made a personal comitment many years ago to cease private flying the minute I thought me skills had peaked and while my Class 2 medical doesn't expire until Feb 2020 (airplanes are much harder to sell if you don't have one).  My decision was also reinforced by a couple of Angelflight crashes where the pilots were older (like myself) and should possibly have known better.

 

 

[FloridaMan]

I'll have my M20F with the LoPresti cowl and 150 hours on the engine that was replaced 9 months ago and is still under warranty on the market some time in the next few weeks provided my current purchase goes through. Documents are signed and money is in escrow for the new one, so it seems likely. 

[MATTS875]

Wow. And I thought I had it tough. Richard is a great person and easy to do business with. Only thing I lost when the seller did not respond back was a feeling of let down. Sounds like it worked out better for you dealing with Richard. 

[carusoam]

There is all kinds of weirdness possible when buying directly from individual sellers...

less weirdness involved when the seller makes a business out of making machines go to the next owner.

@29-0363 that is quite a story!

We have a thread around here related to hanging up the keys... that can be a tough decision.

Best regards,

-a-

[Guest]

11 hours ago, 29-0363 said:

Let me relate my experience with owners remorse - in 2006 I placed 50K in escrow on a 2005 Ovation GX2  located in Kenosha with 46 hrs TTIS.  Mark Woods (now with Delta) was selling it on behalf of the owner, with a contract subject only to satisfactory pre-purchase inspection.  I then flew to the USA from Australia to inspect the aircraft and be present for the PPI.  All went OK except for very obvious wet wing leaks (29-0363 images folder) for which it was agreed the aircraft would be returned to Kerville for repair.  It was then arranged for my to fly to Kerville with a Mooney factory pilot, and I was to join the flight in Chicago early on a Monday.  

I then got a call from the owner about a half hour before leaving to join the flight, saying he'd changed his mind about selling and offered to pay my costs.  Now having stumped up the deposit, arranged for the balance to be ready to transfer AND flown from Australia to the USA AND paid for the PPI, I had a  limited choices.  Demand the Seller complete the deal and if he refused, take legal action?  Or walk away?   If I was a USA resident I might have insisted, but there's a lot more to life than looking backwards, so I walked.  The Seller despite his promise to pay for my PPI inspection and other costs, never did despite numerous reminders, and Mark Woods was unhelpful.

Luckily I had a Plan B in place, more for a failed PPI than Buyers Remorse.

Richard Simile from Premier had N475SP,  an Ovation GX2 with 83 hrs TTIS for sale and within 2 hrs I was on a flight to Atlanta and a bus to Auburn AL.  The deal went through without a problem, the PPI came up perfect, and within 4 or 5 days N475SP became VH-OVH on the Australian Register.  Richard was extremely helpful and made the deal go through without a hitch.

FOOTNOTE:

After 12 years and 910 TTIS, 29-0363 has just gone to a new home.  I made a personal comitment many years ago to cease private flying the minute I thought me skills had peaked and while my Class 2 medical doesn't expire until Feb 2020 (airplanes are much harder to sell if you don't have one).  My decision was also reinforced by a couple of Angelflight crashes where the pilots were older (like myself) and should possibly have known better.

 

 

Interesting story, I known of someone who was burned by this same broker (not Mark) when the plane failed PPI and he had to fight to get his deposit back.

It’s a weird business.  Never put down more of a deposit than you’re willing to lose.

Clarence

Edited May 24, 2018 by M20Doc

[shawnd]

Seems like using an escrow service to exchange money in return for documents like Antares mentioned would be the way to go. Similar to the process of buying a house. Surprised that this isn’t common practice.

[Oldguy]

36 minutes ago, mooneac said:

Seems like using an escrow service to exchange money in return for documents like Antares mentioned would be the way to go. Similar to the process of buying a house. Surprised that this isn’t common practice.

It becomes standard practice after you are burned once....

[Skates97]

1 hour ago, mooneac said:

Seems like using an escrow service to exchange money in return for documents like Antares mentioned would be the way to go. Similar to the process of buying a house. Surprised that this isn’t common practice.

My plane was on the lower end of the spectrum cost wise but we still used an escrow company. Well worth the fee in my opinion, just in case.

[MATTS875]

I agree, AOPA has a escrow service which I will be using

[steingar]

I never did.  I do prefer to keep things simple.  I have to admit, I haven't been burned, but I've never traveled more than a fuel tank to buy an airplane.  were I doing it transcontinental or international I might change my tune.

[gsxrpilot]

I never used escrow either. All American have a long and sterling reputation and I never felt the need when dealing with them. The second Mooney, after meeting and spending some time with the owner, I was very comfortable with him and just didn't feel escrow was necessary.