Raptor

[Brandontwalker]

After watching the project for nearly two years, I have put a deposit down on a Raptor. Skeptical optimism is still in play. However, the Raptor team has exceeded their projected benchmarks on the engine testing and proven they are serious. Given the Velocity’s 250kt 75% cruise with the TSIO-550, there is no reason the Raptor shouldn’t be able to cruise at, or near, 300kts at FL250. I am #1231 in line. Any other MSers on board yet?

 

 

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[mike_elliott]

I really like Peter Mueller's "open Kimono" approach to transparency on this project. I met with him last year at SNF and determined he has a good game plan for ongoing success. His out of the box thinking is of the type that GA needs to survive.

[rainman]

I got on the list several years ago and follow the weekly prototype video updates. If the prototype flies this year, I still anticipate a couple more years before they get to my number. I think Peter states on the website that new folks on the list can anticipate five years before their plane is ready. Ray

[Brandontwalker]

  On 2/15/2018 at 1:02 PM, bluehighwayflyer said:

I hope I'm wrong but it seems too good to be true.

I hope you are wrong too.


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[carusoam]

I check on the progress each time they post a video...

I lost a little interest when they were discussing automotive engines and gearing...

I look forward to your success with a TN’d IO550.  

Best regards,

-a-

 

[SpeedyJoe]

I got in line too a few months ago and watch the videos with interest.

FWIW, note they are using a belt drive to get the propellor to turn slower than the crank shaft, not gears. 

Getting a strong Diesel engine in my mind is a plus, even though I am worried too if a car engine was ever designed to spend the majority of its run time at ~75% of its full HP

I wish Michael Zoche had gotten his 2stroke super & turbo charged radial Diesel engine (!) to production. While he had his engine running on test stands already in the90s, is website website hasn’t changed in more than a decade

Edited February 16, 2018 by SpeedyJoe
Corrected link

[Brandontwalker]

  On 2/16/2018 at 6:00 AM, carusoam said:

I check on the progress each time they post a video...

I lost a little interest when they were discussing automotive engines and gearing...

I look forward to your success with a TN’d IO550.  

Best regards,

-a-

 

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No TSIO-550 for me.  I was just posting that as a reference point for performance numbers as that is what is used on the Velocity.  I am eagerly watching the diesel market as I expect it to revolutionize GA from the standpoint of reliability and efficiency. 

[Jim Peace]

  On 2/15/2018 at 1:40 AM, Brandontwalker said:

Any other MSers on board yet?

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I am thinking about it......

[carusoam]

What are the top three (or more) things about this project that draws your interest?

Things I’m thinking when I read about this project...

• Pusher design efficiency
• experimental category
• composite construction
• diesel engine
• Laminar vs. thick wing...
• economics
• Interior volume
• pressurized cabin (thanks, SpeedyJoe...)
• Turbo charged/normalized power plant

So Many differences from what I’m familiar with...

Best regards,

-a-

[1964-M20E]

I'm thinking about it and I like the Audi engine option but wonder why it is $22k for the engine seems like it would be less than that. 

Liquid cooled engine and use the excess engine heat for deicing protection on the wings nice.  Therma wing without having to install multiple big alternators robbing power from the prop.

However, the overall height 11' 10" has me concerned my hangar door does not go that high I would need to design and build a new hangar door.  Not even sure if the structure is high enough.  the Velocity is less than 8' tall.  Wonder why?

here you go A

• experimental category
• composite construction
• diesel engine
• Laminar vs. thick wing...
• economics
• Interior volume

 

[SpeedyJoe]

The key thing for me is affordability (both in acquisition and maintenance) of a PRESSURIZED aircraft. I want to be able to get high without sniffing oxygen. 

[mike_elliott]

Not legal in this country Johannes...oh wait, your in Washington...maybe it is now

[smccray]

I hope it works... but it's a really big project.  $120K, pressurized, carbon fiber, redone diesel engine... would be a bargain at twice the price.  I hope they're successful.  I'd be a customer but I wouldn't be an investor.

Maybe it's because I'm not a big enough thinker when it comes to aviation, but I would start with a non-pressurized (design the pressurization into the airframe but skip that effort) and an aviation engine.  Expand the project later...

[KSMooniac]

NFW it will cruise at 300 KTAS... That number was debunked on Beechtalk quite a while ago and even shown to them, yet they haven't corrected it in their marketing material.

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[jetdriven]

Not to mention the price of the carbon fiber and the avionics were far above the 120k price quoted for the whole airplane. You telling me they are gonna take a twin turbo DI auto diesel and run it at 100% power for 2000 hours, through a belt drive. And somehow have half the drag of a Cirrus and more room, and pressurize it, cruise at 300 knots on 280HP.  This is straight up PT Barnum sucker born every minute. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by jetdriven

[bradp]

Isn’t 2000 hrs at 75% max something like 180,000 auto miles?

[MIm20c]

  On 2/16/2018 at 10:06 PM, smccray said:

Maybe it's because I'm not a big enough thinker when it comes to aviation, but I would start with a non-pressurized (design the pressurization into the airframe but skip that effort) and an aviation engine.  Expand the project later...

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This^

i think it would be a great buy at triple the price and 250kts speed.  Too many promises...still waiting for a factory new eclipse 500 in the 600’s they were touting at Oshkosh 2006. 

[DualRatedFlyer]

  On 2/17/2018 at 1:59 AM, bluehighwayflyer said:

They are also soliciting people who put down deposits to recruit their non-pilot friends to do the same, then suggesting that they can get their licenses in the Raptor much cheaper than in an old Cessna.  That is a lot of plane to learn how to fly in.

If it seems too good to be true ...

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Very true, however the Navy uses the Texan. All relative I guess. 

[jetdriven]

The navy heavily vets their candidates and washes out half. And these pilot candidates love sleep and breathe flying.  Not the same comparison to upper middle class businessmen.  

[1964-M20E]

Hey 225 to 250 kts cruise would still be nice.  I think somewhere in there documentation they mention 300kts as a maximum speed and I think they have something more realistic in the mid 200 kt range as well as a more realistic HP output form the engine during cruise.

Yes some pie in the sky claims.  Don't all manufacturers do this out the box on new designs??  I'm not sure I'm ready to risk $2000 deposit yet but I like the design.  Also if they started producing the kits now it would be about 5 years before your number would come up if you got on board today.

 

 

[neilpilot]

  On 2/17/2018 at 2:14 PM, 1964-M20E said:

I'm not sure I'm ready to risk $2000 deposit

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Actually in theory you only risk the $65 escrow fee plus whatever interest your deposit is worth.  If I wasn't within 5-10 years of hanging up my headset, I'd consider taking a position.  

[buddy]

I got in back in July of 2017, #1035. I feel that the price of the Raptor will probably go up another 50K once in production but I would still be able to put a few bucks in my pocket after selling my Ovation and buying the Raptor. My understanding is the 2K is put into a escrow account and the only money you would lose is $60 if you want your money back. I hope we get to see the prototype fly this year.

[neilpilot]

  On 2/17/2018 at 2:57 PM, bluehighwayflyer said:

Unless the 2K deposit is truly held by in escrow by a third party escrow company, and the contract says it is fully refundable upon demand, it is absolutely at risk. Is this the case or is the developer funding current operations (and his lifestyle) with them? 

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Look in the ORDERING section:  All deposits are securely held with Escrow.com

[Raptor05121]

Someone owes me some royalties

[carusoam]

Hellooooooo.....

Any Raptor fans still alive around here?

Its been a while...

Like the Spruce Goose.., the Raptor has flown....

A few inches above the runway, for a few feet...

Best regards,

-a-