1966 M20C project for sale $14,500

[ArtVandelay]

A motor with 2600 hrs, 50 yrs old....you have to assume it's a runout

[flyhigh603]

If you do the research thru the NTSB you will discover that the safest motors turning a propeller are at 2600- 3500 hrs past TBO. The engines with the most " In flight failures " 0-700 hrs after OH. TBO is a recommendation and just that. I have talked with dozens of A&Ps  and IAs and most will tell you off the record if it isn't making metal don't change a thing. There was a 172 on the rental fleet at my home field that had an engine with 4200 hrs past TBO ( no kidding ) and the only reason they had it OH'd was the insurance co refused to insure it with the high time. The head Mech said that was the best engine they ever had in the fleet. A twin to the  172 with 400 hrs after OH pooped out  cylinder and a carb . High time motors if cared for are I'm my opinion are a safer bet , if they are taken care of and flown often. Don't let high time motors scare you off , do some research and you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[ArtVandelay]

If you do the research thru the NTSB you will discover that the safest motors turning a propeller are at 2600- 3500 hrs past TBO. The engines with the most " In flight failures " 0-700 hrs after OH.

That's only because very few motors get to 2600 hrs, so we have no data.
I would not tear it down just because of hours but I would assume it's a runout if I was a buyer.

[Alan Fox]

6 hours ago, teejayevans said:

That's only because very few motors get to 2600 hrs, so we have no data.
I would not tear it down just because of hours but I would assume it's a runout if I was a buyer.

Seriously , and no offense to the OP , but 2600 + hours , is grounds for immediate overhaul...... 

[ZOOMER]

I hope the NH law enforcement fuel tanks are in good shape or their whole fleet will be grounded !

Should we chuck in $1K each and turn this into a mascot aircraft, or is it time to mount the airframe on a pole and sell the FWF to an airboat alligator hunting operator ?

 

[Roger O]

The problem as stated previously, is that by the time you do the engine, seal the tanks, and get it into "reasonable" shape, you're spending well into the 30amu territory.  After all is said and done does it really make sense? unless of course there is sentimental value, and money is not a concern...  Perhaps the previous post is not so bad an idea!

[flyhigh603]

sherman 18 

Very true but at that point you ll also know whats  in , and whats been done to the plane. As opposed to buying a $30,000 airplane and finding out at first annual that you need $5-10-20,000 worth of maint that was put off ......I`m actually fighting real hard to keep her and i just might be able to.......

[kevinw]

1 hour ago, flyhigh603 said:

sherman 18 

Very true but at that point you ll also know whats  in , and whats been done to the plane. As opposed to buying a $30,000 airplane and finding out at first annual that you need $5-10-20,000 worth of maint that was put off ......I`m actually fighting real hard to keep her and i just might be able to.......

You make a very good point. There's lots of value and peace of mind knowing what you have and how it's been treated. 

[Roger O]

Flyhigh, you do make a good point.  I guess it depends on your perspective.  I am in the market for a good E model, but I want to get in and fly it, not have a project that will take the better part of a year to complete.

[salty]

On 3/5/2017 at 5:51 PM, Alan Fox said:

Seriously , and no offense to the OP , but 2600 + hours , is grounds for immediate overhaul...... 

My plane is offended

[carusoam]

Wait til you see what Alan flies... your eyes will be equally offended.

The darned thing is missing a vertical fin!  

Best regards,

-a-

Edited March 25, 2017 by carusoam

[Marauder]

Wait til you see what Alan flies... your eyes will be equally offended.
The darned thing is missing a vertical fin!  
Best regards,
-a-

The last thing I saw Alan flying was this:



Don't let him fool you. He loves Mooneys. He just strays from time to time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Shadrach]

Back to the issue at hand.  My thoughts are as follows:

1) This aircraft likely isn't going to sell as is for $14.5K.  

2) $10,000 to make the fuel tanks airworthy seems excessive. 

3) Aircraft ownership is going to cost you one way or the other...in the wallet or in the form of sweat equity.

Sorry for the "tough love", but if your dream is to own and operate this Mooney, then you need to stop with the sob story and get to work.  You have stated that you can't afford to just pay to have it fixed, so that leaves only one other option...sweat equity.  Talk to your mechanic, if he won't work with you find one that will. The are several airports within 25 miles of you, which means there are several IAs.  

No offense intended, but anyone maintaining a certified aircraft needs to be prepared to write a $10,000 (or more) check at anytime or be capable with tools and have a predefined relationship with an IA (having both options is best).  If you have neither, you need to find a creative way to make up for it. A sob story isn't going to get you anywhere.  There are many folks who've conquered worse.

You need some inspiration; you should watch the movie "The Edge"

There's a lot I like about the film. In particular there are two quotes from the movie that are applicable here.

"Never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane"

"What one man can do, another can do"

There is a way out of this FlyHigh603, but your current mindset is way too negative. You're currently heavy on devastation and light on gumption; you need the inverse to make this work.

[francisg]

As all have said vintage Mooney ownership has a high price, i should know. I purchased at salvage auction a 63 M20C that had landed wheels up, it had a low time engine but dated avionics, two years later it is in now good working order with good avionics (530W, 300XL, GTX 345, alt. hold Brittain autopilot, ARI mod and spinner and other speed mods. It ended up costing close to 45K but i know what is in it, and there is still much to do. That is the price we pay for operating a vintage performance aircraft. I doubt any 30K to 35K would be without issues... While you are in a difficult predicament, as others have said going the used engine route and dealing with the tank reseal with sweat equity is probably as inexpensive as it is going to get. Keep the faith, other fools myself included, have done similar things, perseverance pays off...

Peace of mind has a price. You either have to pay up front or piece meal over time but no matter which route is chosen it is expensive to play, these toys are not for the faint.

Best of luck.

Francis G

[HRM]

7 hours ago, francisg said:

You either have to pay up front or piecemeal over time but no matter which route is chosen it is expensive to play, these toys are not for the faint.

Very well said.

[RLCarter]

Dan,
 If it was me I would fix it. A very large percentage of re-sealing the tanks is getting the old sealant out (not hard work, just a lot of work). If the aircraft is at your home field, taxi it back to the hangar and get busy stripping the old stuff out of the tanks under the guidance of an A&P, if its not at your home field, have one tank and the fuel system cleaned (not re-sealed) of all the crap that has come off and fly it home on that tank (ferry permit if needed). If you don’t have a hangar to work out of, find one, you wont be flying so the money you save on fuel should pay for the hangar, also once in a place and it looks like its going to stay for a while call your insurance company and drop the “Hull in Motion” coverage seeing how it wont be flying. Care needs to be taken removing the access panels so you don’t bend them getting them off, once they are off the work begins. I’ve watched a local A&P/IA do several Mooneys, he has a grunt that can thoroughly strips & cleans both tanks (52gal) in about 75 hours. Once the A&P is happy with the cleaning, he preps and seals the tanks. The prep and sealing is a 2 or 3-step process, which is another 15 hours or so. There are several people on here (MS) that have or helped seal their own tanks with very good results. There are chemical strippers that speed up the process but also add to the cost and risk of damaging the paint, all he uses is 3 or 4 plastic (NO METAL) scrappers (modified shapes), small (toothbrush size) stainless steal brush, scotch-brite pads and some MEK and/or Acetone. There is a Service Bulletin SB M20-230A and AD 85-24-03 dealing with sealing the fuel tanks that need to be complied with. I would think working just 5~6 hrs a week you would be back in the air in by the end of summer. There are a lot of aircraft besides Mooneys with "Wet Wing" fuel tanks and the materials needed are readily available.

[flyhigh603]

RL Cater .......well said !!

 

[Bob_Belville]

18 hours ago, francisg said:

That is the price we pay for operating a vintage performance aircraft. I doubt any 30K to 35K would be without issues...

+1

30-35k will buy a pretty nice automobile that shouldn't need more than routine service for several years. But that kind of money is very unlikely to buy a "vintage performance aircraft" that won't require further investment. If it's not the fuel tanks, then the avionics, the engine, the interior/exterior, and any number of other systems... I paid much more than that for a loved E 5 years ago and still had to replace a muffler, alternator, brake disks, windows, engine controls, battery...

[Jerry 5TJ]

On 3/5/2017 at 9:28 AM, flyhigh603 said:

If you do the research thru the NTSB you will discover that the safest motors turning a propeller are at 2600- 3500 hrs past TBO. The engines with the most " In flight failures " 0-700 hrs after OH....

By that same logic, the safest age for a man is around 130 years:  There are NO recorded deaths for men 130 to 140 years old.

 

[Hank]

When  scraping your tanks, plastic scrapers in different types shapes are good. But you will need something else odd ones, a d the Plastic scrapers are thick, tapered and hard to change, plus you will need it again later. Get some small pieces of edging used on laminate counter tops, should be in a roll about 2" wide. Cut what you need with tin snips, easy to adjust the shape with a file, won't harm the aluminum.

Good luck, a d keep us informed here. We're all pulling for you! 

P.S.--I had my tanks stripped and resealed by Wet Wingologists in Ft. Lauderdale, he gave me the top about formica edging.

[Guest paulie]

Bought Dan's airplane. Will be getting a engine overhauled and fuel cell reseal if the weather ever improves here in Florida and I can fly it down. I think we're both happy with the sale.

[DXB]

Always glad to see a nice C getting spared from the scrap heap!

[Guest paulie]

This one is in no way ready to be scrapped, just needs some TLC and the nasty job of resealing tanks. If anyone has a suggestion of the best stuff to get the old sealant out I would appreciate advice.

[rbridges]

56 minutes ago, paulie said:

Bought Dan's airplane. Will be getting a engine overhauled and fuel cell reseal if the weather ever improves here in Florida and I can fly it down. I think we're both happy with the sale.

That is great news.  Good luck with the restore.

[Raptor05121]

Paulie, where are you based at? I just had my local mechanic reseal mine last November. We used a plethora of different plastic picks/scrapers/etc. Looks like everything a dentist would carry. I believe it was about 3-4 days of continuous scraping and they used some liquid agent to melt the old sealant, I believe he told me was about $100 a gallon. We were following the Mooney Repair Manual.