Mooney crash, pilot walks away

[neilpilot]

6 minutes ago, cnoe said:

 

 

IMHO the first thing I would look for is the level at which the alarm sounds. I don't see that info anywhere for that unit (no technical specs listed).

A reviewer on Amazon stated... "As hard as I tried to find the "sensitivity levels" of this unit, no where in the product info or even the packaging does it indicate at what levels the alarm sounds. The only place I could find any info on that at all was on the back of the actual unit in small letters. This alarm will sound within 15 minutes of a 400ppm reading... this is actually well above lethal levels of CO! A good detector should sound at readings of about 70ppm, even better at 30ppm. Levels of 90ppm+ can render someone unconcious, so at levels of 400ppm you wouldn't even be able to hear the alarm as you will likely already be unconscious if not dead!"

This is why I believe purchasing a low-level sensor is vital.


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Here's info in the Q&A section of Lowes web site (I cannot vouch for its accuracy):  The CO sensor is adjusted to not detect CO levels below 30 PPM and will not alarm when exposed to constant levels of 30 PPM for 30 days. It will alarm at the following levels: 400 PPM CO between 4 and 15 minutes, 150 PPM CO between 10 and 50 minutes and 70 PPM CO between 60 and 240 minutes. It will display things between 30-70ppm without alarm

[cnoe]

Here's a link to a summary of recommended exposure limits.
http://transducertech.com/pocketco/govco.html

I believe units such as these are certainly better than nothing and would be valuable for gross exhaust leaks. They are inadequate for detecting the early stages of a problem when the exhaust first begins leaking and the only symptoms are a minor headache.


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[XXX]

 

[Brandontwalker]

FYI the one I have on order offers quantity discounts on as few as 5 units. It's made in the U.S., has a replaceable sensor, and detects low levels. If I hadn't already ordered one I'd have run point for the savings alone.
 
http://sensorcon.com/collections/carbon-monoxide-meters/products/portable-carbon-monoxide-detector-meter?variant=4193480964
 
P.S. I have no connection or interest in this company. There seem to be several acceptable models on the market nowadays.
 
 
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Has anyone looked at putting a group together to order a batch of these? Looks like a good savings.


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[Marauder]

4 hours ago, Brandontwalker said:

Has anyone looked at putting a group together to order a batch of these? Looks like a good savings.


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Mine is showing up today. After reading the Busch article, I understand now that the home models are designed to meet the UL standard to avoid false positives. That threshold is set at 30 PPM. That may or many not be sufficient for airplane usage, although I have been flying with one for a couple of years along with my "black dot, you're dead" detector. 

I have a very unique test bed for trying this new detector out. My hangar is heated with a propane heater. I noticed most times when letting it heat up for thirty minutes that I will reach the 30 to 40 PPM level if I don't crack the door a bit. This weekend I will give this new detector, along with this other detector I bought (shown below) a trial run. BTW -- the "black dot, you're dead" detector never changes color during all of this. 

[kevinw]

I'm strongly considering the panel mounted CO Guardian. Does anyone know how much labor is involved? I have a noisy TC that I no longer need so I could pull that and replace it with the CO detector. 

[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Mine is showing up today. After reading the Busch article, I understand now that the home models are designed to meet the UL standard to avoid false positives. That threshold is set at 30 PPM. That may or many not be sufficient for airplane usage, although I have been flying with one for a couple of years along with my "black dot, you're dead" detector. 

I have a very unique test bed for trying this new detector out. My hangar is heated with a propane heater. I noticed most times when letting it heat up for thirty minutes that I will reach the 30 to 40 PPM level if I don't crack the door a bit. This weekend I will give this new detector, along with this other detector I bought (shown below) a trial run. BTW -- the "black dot, you're dead" detector never changes color during all of this. 

 

I have a kerosene heater. I tested it today with my CO detector which shows CO in the cabin throughout ground operations, and the heater produced zero CO anywhere around it in my closed hangar. I'm pleased, the heater is not supposed to be used in a closed space. 

http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/hvac/heaters/kerosene-propane/50k-btu-kerosene-forced-air-heater-246628

[Marauder]

Didn't think it was this small.



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[Wakeup]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Didn't think it was this small.



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That's what she said !!!

[kmyfm20s]

Are you sure it's just not the big hands? 

[DanM20C]

I left a message at sensorcon today to inquire about a group buy.  I'm back at the doctor tomorrow so I may not be in touch with them until Friday. I'll keep you all posted. I'll pass this along to beechtalk and other groups as well.

The sensorcon looks as good as any.  Marauder, could we get a pirep?  

I think the high resolution ones are the way to go. Bob Belville has a great example with being able to find a small leak at his rudder pedal boots.  A home one probably would have saved me, but also left my airplane grounded a long way from home.  The FAA found a crack in my exhaust under the heat shroud. Today he asked is I had any backfires at start up recently.  I did a few weeks ago. In 6 years and 680 hrs it has maybe backfired 3 times, so it surprised me. But I didn't give it any though 2 seconds later.  Not sure if that caused the crack or not, but if it did a high resolution detector would have picked it up that flight.  I also love the example Bob gave us. Just being able to troubleshoot and really know your airplane is worth the investment in my opinion.  

Cheers,

Dan

[cnoe]

I received my new Sensorcon CO detector today and will give a full prep on it Monday after returning from an 850nm trip departing tomorrow.

On first observations let me state:

The build-quality seems excellent with a solid feel and robust design. It was a bit heavier than expected. When I put it near my car's exhaust it immediately started registering on the display and as it passed 35ppm the LEDs started flashing.

Now on the downside, I expected the audible alarm to be louder; the specs listed it as 80-85 db but it was actually about half that. With a headset or a running engine it would be inaudible.

The unit is about the size of a credit card so after some consideration I decided to mount it on the lower console below my vent/heater/defroster controls where I will easily see the flashing LEDs in the event of an alarm.

I should also add that after exposing it to a very high level (~1,000 ppm) of CO in my exhaust stream it took a considerable time for the level to return to zero. It quickly went well below the alarm level of 35 but it remained between 0-10 for a good while (I believe this is normal).

That's it for now, I just wanted to share these details before others make a final decision on it.

One more thing, I'd be interested in sharing the cost of a calibration kit with others on MS if more of you buy one of these units.


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[tigers2007]

From my training and with commercial grade gas detection equipment, I was instructed that it was "unwise" to put these next to an engine's exhaust pipe to "just see if it is working". Unless, of course, the equipment is used for measuring gases at such high volumes. No idea if that is true or not but I had to read/hear that bi-annually at training classes...

I'll be interested in picking up one of these plus a pulse oximeter. If I was rich like some of you guys I would get this.

 

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

From my training and with commercial grade gas detection equipment, I was instructed that it was "unwise" to put these next to an engine's exhaust pipe to "just see if it is working". Unless, of course, the equipment is used for measuring gases at such high volumes. No idea if that is true or not but I had to read/hear that bi-annually at training classes...

I'll be interested in picking up one of these plus a pulse oximeter. If I was rich like some of you guys I would get this.

 

 

I'm also watching PIREPs ando taking  notes. 

Tiger, that O2 sensor must be pricey, they're afraid to show the price. And if you gotta ask . . . There are other commercial oxygen sensors available in the $50 range.

[Brandontwalker]

I left a message at sensorcon today to inquire about a group buy.  I'm back at the doctor tomorrow so I may not be in touch with them until Friday. I'll keep you all posted. I'll pass this along to beechtalk and other groups as well.
The sensorcon looks as good as any.  Marauder, could we get a pirep?  
I think the high resolution ones are the way to go. Bob Belville has a great example with being able to find a small leak at his rudder pedal boots.  A home one probably would have saved me, but also left my airplane grounded a long way from home.  The FAA found a crack in my exhaust under the heat shroud. Today he asked is I had any backfires at start up recently.  I did a few weeks ago. In 6 years and 680 hrs it has maybe backfired 3 times, so it surprised me. But I didn't give it any though 2 seconds later.  Not sure if that caused the crack or not, but if it did a high resolution detector would have picked it up that flight.  I also love the example Bob gave us. Just being able to troubleshoot and really know your airplane is worth the investment in my opinion.  
Cheers,
Dan

Subscribed Dan. Your story has convinced me of the value of this device. I'm in for one from Sensorcon if they work with you on a group buy.


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[cnoe]

...with commercial grade gas detection equipment, I was instructed that it was "unwise" to put these next to an engine's exhaust pipe to "just see if it is working".

What he said.


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[cnoe]

One more note on my initial pirep of the sensorcon detector... the clip on the back is easily removed by removing one machine-screw which is screwed into a threaded brass insert. I used a 3M Command picture-hanging strip to attach it to the panel. If you're not familiar with them you can easily attach items but then remove them later without leaving any residue behind. These also attach my folding drink-holder to the console.


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[mooniac15u]

8 hours ago, tigers2007 said:

From my training and with commercial grade gas detection equipment, I was instructed that it was "unwise" to put these next to an engine's exhaust pipe to "just see if it is working". Unless, of course, the equipment is used for measuring gases at such high volumes. No idea if that is true or not but I had to read/hear that bi-annually at training classes...

I'll be interested in picking up one of these plus a pulse oximeter. If I was rich like some of you guys I would get this.

 

 

That detector measures Carboxyhemoglobin levels in your body.  Ideally you would like to know about carbon monoxide in the air long before you have significant levels in your system.  I don't think it would be a good replacement for a CO detector.

[Marauder]

Just to make sure everyone is aware, the Sensorcon unit's documentation recommends a re-calibration every six months using a 50 PPM CO test gas. If you don't re-calibrate the end of life flag will come up early. The Amazon comments also mention that when the EOL flag does come up, it costs $59 to recalibrate it. 

[Bob_Belville]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Just to make sure everyone is aware, the Sensorcon unit's documentation recommends a re-calibration every six months using a 50 PPM CO test gas. If you don't re-calibrate the end of life flag will come up early. The Amazon comments also mention that when the EOL flag does come up, it costs $59 to recalibrate it. 

Hum, my $84 unit has a sensor good for 5 years.

[Danb]

Chris thats the one I have, I unscrewed the clip on the back and used the velcro we use for the transponder in our cars for tolls., I would put on your list to turn it on and off when your in the plane, the battery is pricy and I went through one by leaving it on, it works great, its so sensitive I start it up just prior to taking the runway, it picks up other planes taxying in front of you.

[Brian Scranton]

What a story!!!! I think it would be a tragedy if it only stayed on these 6 pages...Dan, I urge you to share your story with AOPA, EAA, CNN, and anyone else who will listen...

[Danb]

Dan I've had the sensorcon for about a year, it works great, the battery is pricy, it picks up the traffic in front of you when taxying. I turn it on prior to runup, turn off after touchdown. I took the clip off the back and velcro it just  to the right of the throttle assemblies, therefore its in eyesight therefore I can pick it up and look at it without any extra movement or fumbling around. A good find for about $120. I keep an extra battery in my battery case on the back floor.

[cnoe]

Hum, my $84 unit has a sensor good for 5 years.

That's a good point Bob but don't forget to determine whether or not the sensor can be replaced.

They'll replace the sensor and calibrate the Sensorcon unit for $60 as I understand. The EOL warning pops up after 2 years but the unit continues to work, albeit with less accuracy.

My primary reason for choosing this unit was the fact that it's made in the US and that they actively support the product.



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[DXB]

37 minutes ago, cnoe said:

One more note on my initial pirep of the sensorcon detector... the clip on the back is easily removed by removing one machine-screw which is screwed into a threaded brass insert. I used a 3M Command picture-hanging strip to attach it to the panel. If you're not familiar with them you can easily attach items but then remove them later without leaving any residue behind. These also attach my folding drink-holder to the console.


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+1 These things are great!!