Bonanza Pilot Makes Fool of Himself Ripping on a Mooney

[peevee]

7 minutes ago, 201er said:

The story says the sr71 was above controlled airspace and didn't have to talk to them but was monitoring center if they would descend into the airspace. The other airplanes were too far from any approach control, so they too were on the same center frequency for the region. Doesn't sound impossible or unlikely out west.

It's incredibly unlikely. Bordering on impossible. 

The GA airplanes would be on vhf. The fighter on uhf, and the sr71 on a separate uhf that covers the entire facility. At Mach 3 it would be impossible for a 71 to be given freq changes and dial them in quick enough to check in in freq, so they didn't. There is one for the center they would use. 

The navigator probably had vhf radios, and he probably had charts with sector frequencies. What he didn't have is how sectors were combined up and which freq they used, so he likely couldn't change and monitor on his own because the freqs in use don't always match the charts.. 

The only way I can imagine this happening is in the middle of the night on mid configuration and they were all using vhf for some reason, tough since the fighters today don't all have vhf... 

Edited December 15, 2016 by peevee

[peevee]

12 minutes ago, Hank said:

"Yeah, you're probably right. Your instruments are better than mine anyway."

For the record, it wasn't Brian on the radio, it was the guy in back, Walt, who had a plethora of radios. I think I read at least five of them . . .

Yeah, I've read sled driver... Thanks. I know who Walt is. 

[Cruiser]

on a trip to Florida going through southern Georgia approach control was talking to several planes close to an active MOA. The controller was denying almost all requests but he cheerfully ended with "try again"

Luckily I wasn't on his list of denials. Well, it sounded funny on the radio!

[aviatoreb]

17 minutes ago, 201er said:

The story says the sr71 was above controlled airspace and didn't have to talk to them but was monitoring center if they would descend into the airspace. The other airplanes were too far from any approach control, so they too were on the same center frequency for the region. Doesn't sound impossible or unlikely out west.

That's my take.  Above 60,000 its no longer controlled airspace.  Not ATC responsibility.  But that doesn't mean that the pilots might not listen.  I don't know, but it still seems plausible. 

[Bob_Belville]

Stories do not have to be literally accurate to tell truth.  

[peevee]

11 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

That's my take.  Above 60,000 its no longer controlled airspace.  Not ATC responsibility.  But that doesn't mean that the pilots might not listen.  I don't know, but it still seems plausible. 

You have to consider a big sector might be 200 miles in its longest direction. Planes rarely fly that,  they corner cut and duck through or in and back out etc. So if he's in a sector for 100 miles I'll let you do the math on how long he would be "in"  that sector. 

There are also reasons not to use vhf above 600 but that's a whole other story. It also applies to vors, though the 71 used celestial nav probably almost exclusively I'm sure. 

While class a stops at 600 atc still separated traffic above 600, I just don't think I can go into it in public. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by peevee

[ArtVandelay]

58 minutes ago, peevee said:

Most of us learned in grade school that "but he started it"  isn't a valid excuse. 

George makes a good point. 

Only if the controller starts it, try flying at 4am sometime, a lot of dead air, I think sometimes it gets a little boring and they just want break the monotony.

[peevee]

8 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Only if the controller starts it, try flying at 4am sometime, a lot of dead air, I think sometimes it gets a little boring and they just want break the monotony.

Most of the time it just confuses the crew to ask or say anything outside of routine. 

[Ned Gravel]

4 hours ago, 201er said:

Too hot in summer and cold in winter. Worst of both

 

I will admit the suckiest thing about the halo headsets is that you have to thaw out the ear buds and warm them up or you can't get them in your ears. But once they warm up to operating temp, they're great.

Mike:

Don't leave them in the airplane.  Small case to stay in flight bag and take home?

[201er]

Just now, Ned Gravel said:

Mike:

Don't leave them in the airplane.  Small case to stay in flight bag and take home?

Too much effort. I just roll them in my hands or stick down my jacket till they warm up. They are small so it doesn't take long. Worst case, I use the silicon ones but they aren't as comfortable or quiet.

[aviatoreb]

21 minutes ago, peevee said:

You have to consider a big sector might be 200 miles in its longest direction. Planes rarely fly that,  they corner cut and duck through or in and back out etc. So if he's in a sector for 100 miles I'll let you do the math on how long he would be "in"  that sector. 

There are also reasons not to use vhf above 600 but that's a whole other story. It also applies to vors, though the 71 used celestial nav probably almost exclusively I'm sure. 

While class a stops at 600 atc still separated traffic above 600, I just don't think I can go into it in public. 

Do they?  I thought above 60,000 was uncontrolled.  But what do I know.  I mean satellites are watched - by Norad?  Does that count as controlled air (space) space.

[peevee]

11 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Do they?  I thought above 60,000 was uncontrolled.  But what do I know.  I mean satellites are watched - by Norad?  Does that count as controlled air (space) space.

Yeah, in the days of sr71s and u2s flying up there they had a system. The controllers didn't know the altitudes but as long as two weren't on the same code they were at different altitudes. If they were they would work something out. 

Edited December 15, 2016 by peevee

[aviatoreb]

4 minutes ago, peevee said:

Yeah, in the days of sr71s and u2s flying up there they had a system. The controllers didn't know the altitudes but as long as two weren't on the same code they were at different altitudes. If they were they would work something out. 

SR71 descend and maintain 65000.  U2 Climb and maintain 70,000.

[cbarry]

I still think the most humbling phase a Bonanza pilot can hear is "Bonanza N.....you have Mooney traffic at your 6:00 and he's overtaking!"  

[201er]

10 minutes ago, cbarry said:

I still think the most humbling phase a Bonanza pilot can hear is "Bonanza N.....you have Mooney traffic at your 6:00 and he's overtaking!"  

He won't even realize it's all happening on less gas!

Edited December 15, 2016 by 201er

[Hank]

21 minutes ago, 201er said:

He won't even realize it's all happening on less gas!

Two years ago, when my carb heat stuck wide open on takeoff to come home, as I crawled slowly on the south side of ATL, Center asked if I was really a Mooney. Then they advised of a Baron several miles north of me on a converging westerly heading with a significant overtaking speed. When I called him in sight, the Baron pilot said he also saw me, and don't worry about the extra speed, he was burning a lot more gas!

[gsxrpilot]

4 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

Why are you flying ROP ?

This was my flight home after buying the 252. I'd never flown a turbo Mooney and wanted to err on the side of being nice to the engine.

[thinwing]

Descending out of 19k for Tucson,I am inbound with a citation 1 on a 45....tower clears me first but citation starts to bitch about being delayed behind "slow"piston...tower says ,you are still # 2 ,the Mooney is showing a 15 kt overtake....wife goes "huh"we are going downhill says I..

[Marauder]

Different topic, but anyone know the cause for the double posts when using Tapatalk?

You have a stuttering problem.


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[Marauder]

Here comes the party pooper.
First off, I didn't start it. Second, Alan never sounds professional in the first place  (you can tell he's a Bo driver the moment he keys his mic). The frequency was not busy at all. I see no harm. 
I hear pros doing things like that all the time whether on the air or online. So let's not put them on a pedestal. What makes me shake my head is when you get a five minute gang orgy tirade on guard after a guy transmitted on 121.5 by accident. Now that's distracting. 
 
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Or the guys who, out of the blue, say "Guuuard" on 121.5.


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[Marauder]

Apologies in advance but you both sound unprofessional.  It's interactions like this that make the pro's shake their heads.  Sorry for the brutal honesty but an ATC frequency is no place for pointless banter.  My2cnts...take it for what its worth.

George -- these guys fly out of Jersey. Just be happy they didn't drag each other's mother into the exchange.

And if you wanted to see some real pointless banter at its finest, do a check run as a Freight Dog into Hartford CT at 2 am in the late 1980s. Bow wow...


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[GeorgePerry]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

Here comes the party pooper.

First off, I didn't start it. Second, Alan never sounds professional in the first place  (you can tell he's a Bo driver the moment he keys his mic). The frequency was not busy at all. I see no harm. 

I hear pros doing things like that all the time whether on the air or online. So let's not put them on a pedestal. What makes me shake my head is when you get a five minute gang orgy tirade on guard after a guy transmitted on 121.5 by accident. Now that's distracting. 

The definition of a professional is someone who does the right thing even when others around them are not.  It also means being open minded to well intentioned feedback and constructive criticism.  I'm certainly not trying to be a "party pooper" as you described, just to simply offer a perspective that you might not have considered.  Again, its up to you to decide if the advice has merit.  fly safe!

[thinwing]

13 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

George -- these guys fly out of Jersey. Just be happy they didn't drag each other's mother into the exchange.

And if you wanted to see some real pointless banter at its finest, do a check run as a Freight Dog into Hartford CT at 2 am in the late 1980s. Bow wow...


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Yeah or god forbid three finger louie

[flight2000]

21 hours ago, 201er said:

He won't even realize it's all happening on less gas!

Some of us do, but then again how many Mooney's can shove 270 pounds in the baggage compartment alone..... 

Everything is a trade off.  Nothing is perfect out there.

21 hours ago, cbarry said:

I still think the most humbling phase a Bonanza pilot can hear is "Bonanza N.....you have Mooney traffic at your 6:00 and he's overtaking!"  

Not really, some Mooney's won't out run a Bonanza, just like some Bo's won't out run a Mooney.  My M20E wouldn't outrun my E33A, but the fuel burn was a hell of a lot better in Mo.  That's not why I moved over though....

Just remember not all Mooney's on the frequency are created equal, just like not all Bonanza's on the frequency are created equal.  I've seen bad behavior from all pilots, so one over the other is just not a big deal in my book.  I guess rivalries will always exist so one group can justify their baby over another....I just sit back and watch the fireworks for the fun of it...   

Cheers,

Brian

[cbarry]

Brian, I agree that not aircraft of the same make should be seen as equivalents.  I'm just speaking of my personal experience, not everyone's. 

Take Care and Blue Skies!