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Mooney down in Atlantic

jackn

By jackn
in General Mooney Talk

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fantom
fantom

Some react negatively to speculation about accidents like this, but I believe it's both a good learning exercise and one legacy from the unfortunate pilot to all of us. That these sad losses force us

Danb
Danb

As stated earlier by a few of us regarding if it was appropriate to critique, criticize etc,,,by the sad outcome of Dr Moir's flight and subsequent loss.   apparently a wealth of knowledge was relea

Houman
Houman

yeah, I was surprised by the appparent drop in groundspeed so fast, something wrong with the data or really wrong with the plane... This is a tragedy but what comes to mind is a saying alot of pilots

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Marauder Grand Master

Marauder

Posted
Posted (edited)

Not good... http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Coast-Guard-Searching-for-Plane-in-Distress-off-Atlantic-City-326445161.html

This was another site's report: http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/single-engine-plane-crashes-ocean-off-jersey-coast-33669789

He was flying pretty high (25,000) and was still at 25,000 feet 7 miles from KACY according to FlightAware. Very sad...

Edited by Marauder
IndyTim Community Regular

IndyTim

Posted
Posted

This is sad.  Something happened on the descent, around 13,000, to cause the 5500fpm plummet.  Weather-related?

Anyone know which ATC feed would have the comms?  Is this NY Center?

neilpilot Mentor

neilpilot

Posted
Posted (edited)

This is sad.  Something happened on the descent, around 13,000, to cause the 5500fpm plummet.  Weather-related?

Anyone know which ATC feed would have the comms?  Is this NY Center?

Washington Center ZDC 133.125

Edited by neilpilot
Deb Veteran

Deb

Posted
Posted

This is sad.  Something happened on the descent, around 13,000, to cause the 5500fpm plummet.  Weather-related?

Anyone know which ATC feed would have the comms?  Is this NY Center?

If not NY Center, possibly Washington Center.

ArtVandelay Grand Master

ArtVandelay

Posted
Posted

This is sad.  Something happened on the descent, around 13,000, to cause the 5500fpm plummet.  Weather-related?

Anyone know which ATC feed would have the comms?  Is this NY Center?

I listen to some of the ATC, icing and convective activity mention, lots of deviations and requests for altitude changes, 1 plane declared minimum fuel.

PTK Grand Master

PTK

Posted
Posted (edited)

That's Michael Moir. 

Please tell me this is a mistake. I met him at the last PPP in ACY.

Horrible. 

Wx is not good. I cancelled my trip to the ACY seminar today.

Edited by PTK
IndyTim Community Regular

IndyTim

Posted
Posted (edited)

On the attached ATC clip you can hear Wash Center trying to reach "Mooney 370MM" at 5:55, 6:05, and again at 8:38.

ZNY-ATL86-ZDC-SIE54-Sep-10-2015-1830Z.mp3

I'm still listening to the tape in the background - I assume they were cleared for the descent since it looks normal down to 13,400.  And I doubt that there were O2 issues with the normal descent down to breathable air.  But from there everything goes bad.  

Two things that could have caused such a rapid descent from 13,400 would be IMC-related disorientation/spin, or some sort of in-flight breakup.  In-flight breakup could be explained by convective activity, I suppose, but since Mooneys are stout it would have to be severe.  But a prop issue could result in an engine separation - not an event I'd ever want to experience.

Looking at the radio times, ATC attempted to contact 370MM around 2:35 pm and again at 2:38 local time, assuming the tape starts at 2:30pm, with the event (whatever it was) happening at 2:47pm.

I'm surprised there isn't more activity around 17:00 on the recording, which is when FlightAware says the flight went down.  They would have been on an IFR plan due to wx and altitude -- do ATC systems issue any type of audio or visual alert when an aircraft on an IFR plan significantly deviates from heading/altitude/vs?

Edited by IndyTim
Danb Grand Master

Danb

Posted
Posted

Totally heartbroken, I followed his flight since I'm going to the PPP, he went over my airport kig t 25000 ft, and I wondered how he was coming down only 50 or so miles, I waited about 6 hours for the wx to clear and I landed in AC about an hour after he was lost. At 25000 the temp was -17... This all relates to the post yesterday re conservative decisions, I utilized my departure airport as my alternate just in cast the wx did not move out as the radar showed..as I'm crying right now my heart goes to his wife and family, it's my understanding she stayed home..there are just to many tragedies at this point, we have the latest equip. With loads of knowledge...God bless him..

gsxrpilot Grand Master

gsxrpilot

Posted
Posted

If the times on LiveATC and FlightAware are accurate, ATC had lost contact with him before the descent started.  Also is a descent of over 1600 ft/min normal in an Acclaim? Regardless a terrible tragedy. 

18:33:55 - KACY Approach tries to reach 370MM

18:34:44 - KACY Approach tries again and asks for an Ident

18:35:55 - Wash Center tries to reach 370MM

18:36:05 - Wash Center tries again

18:37:52 - Descent begins from FL25

18:38:53 - Descent at 1600+ ft/min

18:42:34 - Approach calls again

18:42:37 - Wash Center tries again

Shadrach Grand Master

Shadrach

Posted
Posted

If the times on LiveATC and FlightAware are accurate, ATC had lost contact with him before the descent started.  Also is a descent of over 1600 ft/min normal in an Acclaim? Regardless a terrible tragedy. 

18:33:55 - KACY Approach tries to reach 370MM

18:34:44 - KACY Approach tries again and asks for an Ident

18:35:55 - Wash Center tries to reach 370MM

18:36:05 - Wash Center tries again

18:37:52 - Descent begins from FL25

18:38:53 - Descent at 1600+ ft/min

18:42:34 - Approach calls again

18:42:37 - Wash Center tries again

1600FPM would be a walk in the park with the brakes out, but keeping the ears clear would be a challenge.  I think there is more to this unfortunate tragedy than bad weather. RIP

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