Airbus down in the Alps

[mithogo]

Sad day. I hope this is a game changing event.

[bonal]

There is so much risk in living so many things that can harm us both human and natural, organic and mechanical. as I think about this it occurs to me the safest place I can be is at a high AGL in smooth air at the controls of my Mooney in severe clear where no one can touch me and my fate is my own,

 

God speed to all that perished and those left behind

[Mike A]

If the reports that he locked the captain out are true, the simplest fix is to provide only the captains with an override code that disengages the lock button and possibly automates an emergency signal back to the airlines and/or locks the autopilot in the current settings/altitude/heading until another code is entered

[flyboy0681]

If the reports that he locked the captain out are true, the simplest fix is to provide only the captains with an override code that disengages the lock button and possibly automates an emergency signal back to the airlines and/or locks the autopilot in the current settings/altitude/heading until another code is entered

 

 

Here we go again with the "ATC autoland switch" that I mentioned earlier.

[Hank]

Sorry, Sriram, Asimov wouldn't have prevented this. The action appears to have purposely initiated by a person at the controls.

[aviatoreb]

If the reports that he locked the captain out are true, the simplest fix is to provide only the captains with an override code that disengages the lock button and possibly automates an emergency signal back to the airlines and/or locks the autopilot in the current settings/altitude/heading until another code is entered

 

And then the real terrorist in coach only has to wait for the captain to come out and threaten the code from him by inspeakable threats and actions to the passengers one by one.

 

It is hard to image a way around a suicidally inclined pilot - whether terrorist or simply depressed.

 

This accident has me thinking of the Air Malasia lost airplane accident again from last year.

[aviatoreb]

 

Perhaps we have come down to this with regards to automation and aircraft!

[1] An airplane may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. [2] An airplane must obey orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.  [3] An airplane must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.

 

 

Asimov - very good.  i Robot.

[aviatoreb]

Here we go again with the "ATC autoland switch" that I mentioned earlier.

 

And what is to prevent a terrorist from breaking into air traffic control physically - or air traffic control computers by hacking - and then bringing down lots of airplanes?  Maybe ALL of them?  I am less inclined to feel safer with this action than with giving the captain the access code.

[flyboy0681]

And what is to prevent a terrorist from breaking into air traffic control physically - or air traffic control computers by hacking - and then bringing down lots of airplanes?  Maybe ALL of them?  I am less inclined to feel safer with this action than with giving the captain the access code.

 

Exactly my point.

 

Maybe all airliners just need to be equipped with OnStar.

[DonMuncy]

Unfortunately, giving only the captain the code, assumes the captain is not the baddie/crazy. Perhaps it would change the odds some, but no guarantee.

[wishboneash]

Sorry, Sriram, Asimov wouldn't have prevented this. The action appears to have purposely initiated by a person at the controls.

 

It seems the aircraft should follow Law 2. The aircraft should not obey the human trying to initiate a CFIT using the auto-pilot assuming the plane is not in trouble (fuel, structural integrity etc) which needs to be overridden by a human for whatever reason. There is no good reason for a 430mph flight into a mountainside even in an emergency.

[Shadrach]

So much irrational fear in this world, and these accidents certainly don't help.  Commercial air travel is still the safest form of travel ever devised by humans. Even if an airliner went down every month, it would still be the safest form of travel. And it's much safer than what we do in our Mooneys. 

 

I'd still rather fly my Mooney than fly commercial any day of the week! But it's not nearly as safe as going commercial... even on an Airbus. ;-)

 

There is more to risk assessment than simple statistics. In many ways, GA is a safe as the pilot makes it.  Statistically speaking flying a Mooney is similar in terms of fatality rate to riding a Motorcycle on the street.  Do you feel equally safe doing both?  I don't.  Other people can be a large part of the accident chain on a motorcycle. In GA, not so much.  I think most of us prefer to have control over our own destiny and for better or for worse GA flying allows us to do so in an almost incomparable way.

[Piloto]

How about a concealed old fashion crowbar that can be used for emergency situations. Even the fire rescue use them for emergencies.

José

[jetdriven]

then the terrorists can gain access to the crowbar, and the flight deck.  No.

[ArtVandelay]

Sad day. I hope this is a game changing event.

There is only one way to prevent suicidal pilots from crashing...turn it over to the autopilot. We definitely have the technology, but will people accept it?

[Shadrach]

There is only one way to prevent suicidal pilots from crashing...turn it over to the autopilot. We definitely have the technology, but will people accept it?

 

 

It will be a long time before I'm comfortable completely surrendering myself to a computer.  Not saying that time won't come, but I'm not even close at this time.  I would bet that I'm not alone. 

[1964-M20E]

Unfortunately this just goes to show that no matter what you do if someone is willing to kill themselves while committing some act there is little you can do about it.

[gsxrpilot]

I won't say that I enjoy flying commercial, but it allows me to work a job and earn a living far beyond what my parents and grandparents had access to.  In the month of March I crossed the Atlantic four times. I flew to Israel for work and to Italy for vacation. I've been to over 50 countries around the world. About half for work and half for pleasure. I've never had an issue with anyone or any carrier. 

 

Just a week ago while strolling through the Medieval town of Siena in the Tuscany region of Italy, I was musing to the wife about what my life would have been like if I'd been born back then. I don't come from nobel or royal blood lines, so life would have probably been pretty miserable. Maybe I would have found myself a niche like I have now, that is a bit unique, but pays well.

 

I'm very thankful that commercial air travel is so accessible, common, and affordable. I'm not a professional pilot, but air travel allows me to earn well, own and fly a Mooney and retire young enough to hopefully enjoy it all.

 

I was on one of the very first trans-atlantic flights following the shutdown of 9/11. Shit happens, but I'm not going to worry about it.

 

Someone once said the real tragedy would be to get to the end of your life only to discover that you hadn't lived.

 

Just my $0.02

[Shadrach]

Next time you're in that region check out San Gimignano. I've driven Italy from top to bottom it is my favorite country to visit, though I'd never want to try to make a living there unless I had to.  

[N201MKTurbo]

So how about an auto pilot that fly's straight and level unless there are two butts in the seats. If one has to go you just have to engage the autopilot while he/she is away, or get a flight attendant to sit in the seat. The FAs would probably think it is cool...

 

The problem is that all systems need bypass systems in case one of the butt sensors fail...

[MyNameIsNobody]

A bunch of kids didn't get a chance to live their lives because of the selfish action of one individual who was in a position that required trust and faith. They and their parents and loved ones entrusted their most precious cargo to them. THAT is a tragedy that money will never remedy.

[AndyFromCB]

It will be a long time before I'm comfortable completely surrendering myself to a computer.  Not saying that time won't come, but I'm not even close at this time.  I would bet that I'm not alone. 

 

You do it each time when landing in crappy weather on an international flight. It's called CATIII 0/0 landing...

[ryoder]

Computers can fly an airplane better than most of us and do it repeatedly without recurrent training. The only problem is when they decide to go Skynet on your ass.

[Hank]

A bunch of kids didn't get a chance to live their lives because of the selfish action of one individual who was in a position that required trust and faith. They and their parents and loved ones entrusted their most precious cargo to them. THAT is a tragedy that money will never remedy.

If someone wants to kill themselves, then do it. There is no need to force others to die with you. If you can't handle using a gun or pills, then drive the car you own into a bridge support with your foot to the floor. Doing the same while driving a school bus is just dumb.

[Shadrach]

You do it each time when landing in crappy weather on an international flight. It's called CATIII 0/0 landing...

There are two dudes or dudettes at a minimum in the cockpit monitoring the situation. I have no issue with that. Remove the dudes and dudettes and I don't feel the same.