Getting my complex, Mooney transition, and instrument training in one

[ryoder]

This is pretty cool for an el cheapo like me. I need ten hours of dual in my new to me Mooney but this instruction has also gotten me my complex endorsement. Also, my instructor started my instrument training after our first session and I have already flown six or seven approaches under the hood including ILS and localizer only. Too bad it's not a twin with over 200hp so I could simultaneously knock out more stuff. Seriously though my training is jam packed and I feel like I am starting my private pilot all over again with all this learning.

[Andy95W]

Great job, and kudos to you for accepting the challenge! You'll definitely be glad you did it all in your own airplane, there's no better way to learn your new bird.

[Hank]

Woo-hoo!! Welcome to the club!

I did very similarly. Insurance required 15 hours, including 5 instrument, but I didn't start instrument training for a couple of years. My CFI suggested I take some time to learn (and get comfortable in) the plane first; besides, there's that minimum XC time requirement that I needed to meet.

Training in your own plane is definitely best. Look into a MAPA PPP, too.

[1964-M20E]

Why not you are already paying the instructor to sit there might as well get something useful out of him.

[Danb]

Way to go, IMHO it is the best way to get time in your new plane,start your instrument rating at the same time and learning all the new systems under the guidance of an instructor. As Hank stated strongly consider the Mooney PPP, I feel rusty so I'm going in Sept. Which would be 2 yrs in a row...still learning after 30 yrs....

[Houman]

Way to go, IMHO it is the best way to get time in your new plane,start your instrument rating at the same time and learning all the new systems under the guidance of an instructor. As Hank stated strongly consider the Mooney PPP, I feel rusty so I'm going in Sept. Which would be 2 yrs in a row...still learning after 30 yrs....

I would love to go to a Mooney PPP in the near future, but hopefully something a bit more in the north-east region, I checked their schedule and I think it will more likely be next year for me

[Robert C.]

@ryoder

 

Awesome!

 

I'm starting the same routine on Monday, and am doing the whole affair in 2 weeks as I'm doing an accelerated IFR course with A.F.I.T. It will be like drinking from a fire hose....did the same for my PPL and remember it as the 2 most intense weeks of my life. This promises to be worse I've been told

 

Robert

[DAVIDWH]

A little off topic perhaps, but am curious as to how your instructor is teaching turns in the pattern.

 

One of my previous instructors only permitted std. rate turns ( And keep it coming down)  and this is my modus op. today. However, had another instructor say to forget about instrument turns in the pattern and just keep looking.

 

I felt both gave me good advise. First instructor preventing the stall, upside down suicide turn to final, while the second CFI is trying to prevent a collision.

 

Anyone know how it is taught in the military? They seem to do things right.

 

Just curious....

[ryoder]

A little off topic perhaps, but am curious as to how your instructor is teaching turns in the pattern.

 

One of my previous instructors only permitted std. rate turns ( And keep it coming down)  and this is my modus op. today. However, had another instructor say to forget about instrument turns in the pattern and just keep looking.

 

I felt both gave me good advise. First instructor preventing the stall, upside down suicide turn to final, while the second CFI is trying to prevent a collision.

 

Anyone know how it is taught in the military? They seem to do things right.

 

Just curious....

He hasn't really taught me how to turn in the pattern. When I am in the pattern I make turns as if I was in slow flight or just a bit faster. I'd rather overshoot final and go around than stall and spin at 500 ft.

[ryoder]

@ryoder

 

Awesome!

 

I'm starting the same routine on Monday, and am doing the whole affair in 2 weeks as I'm doing an accelerated IFR course with A.F.I.T. It will be like drinking from a fire hose....did the same for my PPL and remember it as the 2 most intense weeks of my life. This promises to be worse I've been told

 

Robert

Wow good luck. That is going to be intense. I am exhausted after two hours under the hood in the Florida heat.

Did you pass the written already? I assume so. I haven't yet but need to get back into the studying portion so I can get my sign off from Gleim.

[Bob - S50]

A little off topic perhaps, but am curious as to how your instructor is teaching turns in the pattern.

 

One of my previous instructors only permitted std. rate turns ( And keep it coming down)  and this is my modus op. today. However, had another instructor say to forget about instrument turns in the pattern and just keep looking.

 

I felt both gave me good advise. First instructor preventing the stall, upside down suicide turn to final, while the second CFI is trying to prevent a collision.

 

Anyone know how it is taught in the military? They seem to do things right.

 

Just curious....

It depends.  I don't think there is one way to do it right.

 

In the military I ...never... flew into an uncontrolled airport so I never had to worry about unannounced traffic.  In the T37 pattern altitude was 1000' and the plane flew just like the Cessna it was.  No buffet, just make the turn, make small adjustments early, accept the overshoot if you screw up and go around if it is too bad to salvage.  The T38 (during training in ATC) pattern altitude was 1500' and because the wing was different you flew a minor buffet all the way around the turn.  The AT38, F106 and F15 pattern altitude was 2000'.

 

All those planes were one continuous 180 turn from downwind to final.  No rollout on base.  With a crosswind blowing you away from the runway you used less bank.  With the wind blowing you into the runway you flew a bit wider and used a bit more bank.  The goal was to complete the turn one mile from the runway at 300'.  In all cases you looked for a 'picture'.  If you looked high you lowered the nose a bit to adjust and pulled the power a bit to control the airspeed.  Just the opposite if you were low.  If you needed to increase the bank and G's you also added power to compensate for the higher drag.

 

As for getting to downwind it was either a 60 degree bank pitchout from initial over the numbers or a closed pattern.  There were many techniques for the closed.  I preferred to pitch the nose up, then bank for the turn and adjust the bank angle and G's to get my desired pattern width.

 

I still fly the Mooney the way I flew the fighters.  I look out the window at the runway.  If I look high I lower the nose and pull the power to keep from getting fast.  If I am a bit fast but the picture looks right I just pull power to slow down and use pitch to keep the picture looking right.  If I end up on final one or two miles out I'm happy.  If I overshoot I overshoot.  Better luck next time.

 

Enjoy your Mooney.  There are many ways to fly it.  Learn the one that works for you.  If you are uncomfortable with something after trying it for awhile, find another (safe) way to do it.  If your instructor can't show you another way, find another instructor.

 

Bob

[Robert C.]

Wow good luck. That is going to be intense. I am exhausted after two hours under the hood in the Florida heat.

Did you pass the written already? I assume so. I haven't yet but need to get back into the studying portion so I can get my sign off from Gleim.

 

Yep, passed it last week. All the accelerated programs require you to pass the written before you start with them because there is no time during the program itself. You are flying at least 4 hrs a day and the rest is prepping for the next day and for the oral exam.

 

I recommend that you get it out of the way as quickly as possible. It's hugely distracting when you also try to do the flying and besides, there is so much stuff in there that is straight out of the pre-war (WWII that is) era that i found it hugely annoying.

 

Also, Dave Elliot warned me that the FAA is about to change the IR written test so you don't want to get caught by a test change just when you think you're ready for the old one

 

Good luck to us both !

[jlunseth]

I did the same thing but in my 231, which is 210 HP, so I got the HP endorsement out of it also. 

[ryoder]

I just flew off my ten hours and got my complex endorsement and some good time flying approaches. The past ten hours have been challenging and rewarding. I am now legal and covered to fly solo in the airplane for five hours before being covered to carry passengers. I'll probably fly the solo hours off next weekend. The Mooney, even with older instruments, is a solid basic ifr machine and I'll probably do my checkride in it as is with vor, dme, and glide slope. The engine runs a bit rough when idling for too long so I need to get that checked out before I take passengers.

[Robert C.]

Nice! Don't slow down now, get that IR done before real life catches up with you

[carusoam]

O360 A1D has a tendency to gather small lead balls in the lower spark plugs.

Leaning during taxi could be helpful. Enrichen before departure...

If you don't, the engine will stumble when you put the throttle all the way in...

Other than that, it should idle smooth as any other four cylinder carbed A/C engine.

While you are considering OH'd mags, add plugs and wires to the thought process. See if fine wire pugs are a possibility for your engine?

Best regards,

-a-

[ryoder]

Thanks carusoam. I didn't know that about small lead balls. I have been leaning during taxi and it does seem to help. I'll get wires and plugs with the mags. I'll look into fine wire also.

[Ftlausa]

I took a year or so "off" between my PPL and IR training.  I have just started the IR training and feel like I am starting over in some respects.  I did a lot of VFR flying (several hundred hours) over the last year, including some aerobatics and getting my tail wheel, HP and complex endorsements.  However, the moment I put on that hood I felt like I was a newbie and, well, flying blind.  Its a little frustrating, and I cannot imagine flying under the hood 4 hours a day for two weeks.        

[ryoder]

Ftlausa the hood is a bit annoying I like foggles better. I am pretty comfortable in simulated instruments but I think it's like you said, I have been doing it consistently. I want to fly cross country next weekend to get more hood time plus cross country time concurrently. I just passed the knowledge test today and am glad to have it behind me. Did you take that yet?

[mike_elliott]

I just flew off my ten hours and got my complex endorsement and some good time flying approaches. The past ten hours have been challenging and rewarding. I am now legal and covered to fly solo in the airplane for five hours before being covered to carry passengers. I'll probably fly the solo hours off next weekend. The Mooney, even with older instruments, is a solid basic ifr machine and I'll probably do my checkride in it as is with vor, dme, and glide slope. The engine runs a bit rough when idling for too long so I need to get that checked out before I take passengers.

Ground lean it fairly aggressively. You might have the "rich" carb on it also. Are you still at KCLW? I just got cleared to drive so I might be able to get there and at least meet you sometime soon. Congrats on the written!

[fantom]

...I just got cleared to drive....

 

EXCELLENT news!

[flyboy0681]

Nice! Don't slow down now, get that IR done before real life catches up with you

 

Since I got my rating last February, I haven't had to cancel a single trip that I had scheduled. Prior to it, my failure to launch was farily high since it was my policy to never fly unless it was pure VFR along the route.

[ryoder]

Yeah Mike I am still at KCLW shade hangar D beside another Mooney. I am N79396. I'd love to see ya some time and show you the Mooney if you are up to it.

How do I know if I have the rich carb? I suspect that I might.