S Bonanza fuel economy vs J model....

[Alan Fox]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGzv9NCZ-cA   Interesting Vid....

[John Pleisse]

Is this the Beechbum guy? He's awesome.

[scottfromiowa]

Interesting in that he feels the need to show that his Beechcraft can fly LOP and run 160ish knots on 10.1GPH...like a Mooney? Stop the presses...

I would have preferred to see the instruments rather than his belly, but that's just me. Why does he even bother to troll around the Mooney site...? If you are going to say there is a lot of bad information on the internet...state what that is.

Based on his scientific analysis I now know what I knew before...Beechcraft can fly LOP and burn 10GPH like a Mooney...and they have way more room inside.

AND they have made them since 40's...and they are expensive to buy and maintain...compared to my M20E.

Do me a video talking about what a great deal he got buying it and how cheap it is to maintain...THEN my ears will perk up.

[jetdriven]

I haven't seen a Bonanza S35 get the same NMPG as a 201, they have more total drag.  But yes, they are faster, carry more, and have more room.

[Bob_Belville]

Sold me. I'm going to get rid of my old Mooney... as soon as I find someone who'll give me what it's worth.

[rbridges]

I couldn't hear the audio on my computer.  I thought J models could hit high 8's and low 9's gph and fly in the 150s LOP.

[Shadrach]

It is not possible for an aircraft with a higher C/D, more flat plate area flying at a heavier weight to match the speed of a smaller, lighter, lower drag machine in level flight.  Come close? Perhaps. I love S35s. They are perhaps my favorite "easily attainable" (relatively speaking) GA aircraft. But like so many comparisons, unless your flying the subject aircraft side by side on the same day...the comparison is...well not a comparison. 

[co2bruce]

I personally do not believe his numbers. 174 kts at 12.4 gov at 7500 on a Bonanza, I'm calling bulls$#!.

[Bob_Belville]

  On 11/12/2013 at 2:50 PM, rbridges said:

I couldn't hear the audio on my computer.  I thought J models could hit high 8's and low 9's gph and fly in the 150s LOP.

I think his thesis is that the V35B can get close to a J's economy by running their 285 hp  @ ~60% LOP. And that the B.allows for more nice options: higher useful load, more leg room, higher speed (at lower mpg) etc. He does not get into the total cost of ownership comparison.

 

There might be some hyperbole in his figures, e.g. he was reciting his TAS while by himself, on his way to buy fuel. I suppose he might have been 1000# or more below gross! The nominal cruise speed for a V35B is 172K.  www.pilotfriend.com/aircraft%20performance/Beech/beech2/41.htm

[Shadrach]

  On 11/12/2013 at 3:10 PM, co2bruce said:

I personally do not believe his numbers. 174 kts at 12.4 gov at 7500 on a Bonanza, I'm calling bulls$#!.

A Bonanza is not Bonanza is not a Bonanza.... An A36 could never do what he's doing. an S35 with an IO550 conversion will cruise 190Kts true... a the IO520 will still make nearly 180kts. An 285hp A36 might touch a bit over 170kts true if you beat the $hit out of it, but in reality it's ~165kt airplane, pretty close to a J on a lot more gas...

[jetdriven]

he must have an exceptional S35, book numbers are just shy of 200 MPH and that's 75% power, 2500 RPM,  ROP.

[Cruiser]

how did the video end? I fell asleep trying to listen to him.

Glad he pointed out the passenger seat folds back, no wonder his wife goes to sleep when they take a trip.

 

Byron and Ross are right on. There are desirable features in both Mooneys and Bonanzas, But you can't get all of them in one plane. 

[chrisk]

  On 11/12/2013 at 4:08 PM, jetdriven said:

he must have an exceptional S35, book numbers are just shy of 200 MPH and that's 75% power, 2500 RPM,  ROP.

Screen Shot 2013-11-12 at 8.06.24 AM.pngScreen Shot 2013-11-12 at 8.05.49 AM.png

 

 

The second chard is probably at gross @3100 lbs.  By himself and with 25% fuel, I would expect he could ge a bit more speed.  Also, if he has an IO550, he will have even more speed.

 

No doubt about it, a Bonanza is a nice plane.   It is my second choice after a Mooney.  And yes, his video put me to sleep. 

[Shadrach]

  On 11/12/2013 at 4:08 PM, jetdriven said:

he must have an exceptional S35, book numbers are just shy of 200 MPH and that's 75% power, 2500 RPM,  ROP.

Screen Shot 2013-11-12 at 8.06.24 AM.pngScreen Shot 2013-11-12 at 8.05.49 AM.png

 I'm with you, seems optimistic, though I'd bet he's running a 550.

[aviatoreb]

Nothing wrong with a fellow aviator loving his airplane. Nothing wrong with a Bonanza.  Ask a Mooney pilot which airplane is best - we know what the answer will be. Ask a Bonanza pilot which airplane is the best...

 

How come I see this same argument over and over again: If I run my airplane LOP and you run your ROP then mine is the same or better than yours.

 

I know a J does ~10gph ROP.

 

Ok my J-friends.  All together - what speed and gph will your J do at your favorite LOP setting?  Less than 10?  Less than a Bonanza LOP?

 

I know of one extra special J on here with every possible speed mod, engine mod, etc, incl lopresti cowl and reported to cruise >170TAS on reasonable engine settings.

 

Then on the flip side - my TSIO520NB guzzling rocket burns anywhere from 15-20gph at my favorite book ROP settings from 55-75%.  And it will do 12gph LOP when going 231 speeds.  And it will 10gph when really loafing the engine.  But there is a catch to slowing down too much. 1st, I don't think it is considered good for the engine to run it too low in cruise (as opposed to briefly say in the pattern or on an approach) (correct me if I'm wrong....is it ok after all?), 2) speed is intoxicating...I thought I would have more patience - but I was wrong -  I get so used to always going at 180TAS and more - 175 becomes the new slow - that after awhile I feel like something is wrong if Im not going 190...so I just generally run from 65% and on up.

[scottfromiowa]

I have NEVER read anywhere on this or other LOP/ROP threads that "If I run my airplane LOP and your run yours ROP then mine is the same or better than yours".

I don't even know what that means.

I think ROP guys are just like Beech guys...heh, heh.

To me efficient speed is intoxicating...and addictive.

If people want to run their engines ROP what me worry?

If Bonanza drivers want to pretend that their airplanes are Mooney's....I am O.K. with that too, but can I have an attractive human being giving me the details?

[scottfromiowa]

I think a Bonanza is a better airplane than a Mooney.

But I pay the bills so I fly a Mooney.

I am HAPPY to do so.

[Alan Fox]

I have the luxury of owning both , unfortunately I dont have the patience to run either aircraft at 60% so the point is moot , I just thought that you guys might enjoy this....Sorry . I guess I was wrong.........

[Cruiser]

In terms of efficiency the one and only metric should be NMPG. You can slice operations anyway you want i.e. MPxrpm, ROP/LOP, high/low, six cylinders vs. four etc. but miles per gallon is easy to understand and hard to argue.

[jetdriven]

He has a 520.  He also says (excerpt below) that he gets 199 MPH TAS in cruise, ROP, WIT 2300 RPM. So, ~14.4 GPH.  But the Beech POH subtracts 3-5 MPH from cruise IAS to get CAS, so call it 196 MPH TAS.   11.82 NMPG.  A M20J can get 15 NMPG easily, 17NMPG at 65-75% cruise LOP,  and can approach 20 NMPG at max range settings.

 

So the point of all of this is to show you what this plane does at 6,500' with near full tanks, two people, and bags. The throttle was full in, rpm at 2,300 and the mixture ROP. The true airspeed is right at 200mph or 174 knots. Spinning the prop faster yields higher speeds, but flying the plane easy at 200 mph suits me fine. It will do around 190 mph LOP, but I don't have that dialed in enough to claim for certain. Anyway, the point of this is so you can see what an S with a 520 under the hood that is fresh looks like in cruise.

[Alan Fox]

Also an IO 550 has much better fuel specifics than a IO360 , but I guess that doesnt matter either.....

[aviatoreb]

  On 11/12/2013 at 7:29 PM, scottfromiowa said:

I have NEVER read anywhere on this or other LOP/ROP threads that "If I run my airplane LOP and your run yours ROP then mine is the same or better than yours".

 

The guy on the video was running his airplane LOP.  And getting 10gph.  ANd said great - compared to an M20J - a M20J burns 10gph - that's ROP isn't it? (I don't know since I don't have one).  Does it run 7.5 or so LOP?  So if he were comparing LOP to LOP settings on both airplanes it would have been a meaningful comparison - and at the same speed - so yes, nmpg.

 

  On 11/12/2013 at 7:29 PM, scottfromiowa said:

I think ROP guys are just like Beech guys...heh, heh.

To me efficient speed is intoxicating...and addictive.

 

Scott - did you you just call me a Beech-like guy?!!!  Why I never!  :-O

 

Efficiency is fun too....and its a sliding scale.  Do you ever fly at Carson's speed?   Professor Carson was the ultimate efficiency-speed addict and the rest of us are just pretenders.

 

Anyway, yes I did admit that I don't slow down for efficiency as much as I should or thought I would....  But at least I don't fly a Beech!  :-/

[201er]

  On 11/12/2013 at 7:56 PM, n74795 said:

I have the luxury of owning both , unfortunately I dont have the patience to run either aircraft at 60% so the point is moot , I just thought that you guys might enjoy this....Sorry . I guess I was wrong.........

I enjoyed watching a beech bum so enthralled by Mooney efficiency that he tried to impersonate it.

[Shadrach]

  On 11/12/2013 at 7:59 PM, n74795 said:

Also an IO 550 has much better fuel specifics than a IO360 , but I guess that doesnt matter either.....

Really... much better huh? Which IO550 are we talking about? Please show me the math; then it will matter. How does an engine that makes less horspower per litre, with a lower compression ratio (less thermally efficient), less agressive ignition timing turning more recipricating mass turn out lower BSFC? I'm not saying it doesn't, but please show your work... If the fuel specifics are in fact better and I'm dubious that they are, I doubt seriously they qualify as "Much" better.

[scottfromiowa]

I fly 2500RPM and 2500MP or less in cruise depending on altitude and I am LOP at 9.0 to 10GPM (between 10&50LOP).  So yes I am LOP at 10GPH at the altitudes I fly.  I don't run MP over 2500 down low.  Right or wrong...but I am LOP.

 

He didn't flat out say it (his Beech) was better...just implied it.  Bottom line:  If you are big and fat and your wife likes to sleep in the plane buy a Beech.  That is my take-away.