Is the eagle as good as it looks?

[BigD]

I think the M 20 S Eagle looks like a great plane, anybody care to discuss it? I know seems like a broad, ridiculous question, but I was interested in fuel burns and speeds of what people are seeing. Thanks.
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KSMooniac]

Yes! Generally lighter, cheaper, and less loaded with old stuff compared to an Ovation, but upgradeable to 310 HP. A great canvas to create your perfect long body with great useful load.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, BigD said:

I think the M 20 S Eagle looks like a great plane, anybody care to discuss it? I know seems like a broad, ridiculous question, but I was interested in fuel burns and speeds of what people are seeing. Thanks.
 
 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Early on in 1999 they were the stripped down entry level Mooney when Mooney discontinued the J Model. (The cost difference between making a J and an Eagle (S) was the cost difference of the engine and very little else - some aluminum difference to make it a long body. The rest of the ongoing improvements had been rolled into the J model throughout the years.)

The Eagle had a more basic panel than the Ovation with an STec 30 autopilot most often, almost always cloth interior, basic white paint with a couple stripes, 244hp instead of 280hp, less expensive prop.

But after 20+ years panels change, interiors can be upgraded, STCs come out for 280 and 310 hp, etc, etc. So an upgraded Eagle can be nicer than some original Ovations.

Edited September 27, 2023 by LANCECASPER

[mooneyflyer]

I own an Eagle since 2009. Flies faster than most Ovations. Will not sell until I can no longer fly. Fantastic Mooney

[carusoam]

Hey all!

My favorite topic!

How to get the best NA Mooney at a fantastic price?

The Eagle as stated above… started out as a decontented Ovation…

Nothing that couldn’t be reversed, or added, or adjusted… re-contented.

1) they cut the power output… to less than the Ovation 1.  
2) put it back to the O3’s 310hp engine.. and call it a Screamin’ Eagle.  Same engine, different governor, tach update fuel adjustment, and possibly a different prop to meet the STC requirements…

3) they cut the fuel capacity… to less than the Ovation 1.  Keeping the weight down to match the reduced power output…

4) cut a vent hole in the fuel neck to keep the fuel neck from limiting the capacity…

5) the paint… lots of white, and little color… less than the Ovation 1.

6) Add a big red stripe with a swoopy style… to go with the Screamin’ Eagle decal on the tail…

7) Limited avionics… compared to the Ovation 1.

8) Either way… the Ovation 1 avionics were good… but who is still using DME and ADF approaches…?

9) Go all color screens with WAAS capability…

10) Rudder trim… Eagle didn’t get it.  It is super nice to have. Especially with 310hp, and long descents from altitude…

11) cockpit sound insulation…. Ovations got some upscale treatment that the Eagle didn’t…

12) there are plenty of other Mooneys that decided to update this as well…

13) cruise speed for the Eagle… is slightly less than the Ovation… because the O1 got a 2500 rpm red line… the Eagle, slightly less…

14) Go with the 310hp STC… and you get to choose what rpm you want to cruise at, up to 2700 rpm.  The STC writer recommended 2550 to match the prop’s design efficiency…

 

These details were discussed early on when @Cris (RIP) bought an Eagle in about 2010 or 11….

Cris was a businessman, a pilot, and a CFII… listed in the MAPA who’s who of CFIs….

Cris was a skilled aviator and liked his Garmin and Bose devices…

I gave Cris insight on knowing what was available for his Eagle….

He helped get me get flying again after some time off in 2012… that included getting a new prop and the 310hp STC for my O1…

 

If you go this route… make sure the Hartzell spinner OD matches the diameter of the hole at the front of the cowl… it should be a smooth transition…. 

or consider the M-T composite four blade…

Flying around at 175kts ROP… you want the transitions to all be smooth!

If you are into efficiency… 165kts LOP… you really want the smooth transitions… 

 

Go Standing O! Or Screamin’ Eagle… you decide!   
 

If you go with the standard Eagle… be ready to calculate your T/O distances and climb rates… as they are most affected by the lower power output…. Some short fields may seam shorter…

 

PP thoughts only, not a CFI…

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Hmmmmmmm….

Long bodies being used as forever planes…. 

it is quite possible…

Once you get past the initial capital expense challenge…

Storage, annual, and insurance aren’t a whole lot different than for an M20E…  plane value is only a part of the insurance bill…

If FF is a challenge…. The IO550 can be dialed back to 50°F LOP or more at lower altitudes… with really tight Gami spreads possible…. No excess fuel is escaping past the exhaust valve this way.

The hard part… flying slowly is more efficient than flying in full flaming dragon mode….  
You decide the day you are flying for this… all knobs forward vs. most knobs not all the way forwards…

Tough choices…

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

plane value is only a part of the insurance bill…

What is the breakdown in premium between liability and hull in yours (percentage, not dollars)? The only time I have seen the hull premium not being the lion's share is when there is large, smooth liability coverage. 

[Cruiser]

Great airplane ! I was the third owner of N99MS (shown in the OPs post) it was on the cover of AOPA magazine and a picture of it hangs in the AOPA lobby. @Bolter owns it now. He is here on MooneySpace, I hope he has something to add. 

@Curusoam describes it very well except that at the time of certification 03/1999 it was the fasted NA certified airplane in the world. Only 65 were made.
It has great useful load, normally above 1000#

with the upgrades to 310HP and three blade prop it flies like the O3, it likes the low teens and can go fast or far.
It will fly 170 kts on 13.5 gph, it is really smooth LOP or can scream along at 185 kts if you want to. 
It will push you back in the seat on takeoff and can climb 1000 fpm to 10,000 feet but the #5 cylinder will run hotter than you want in an extended climb because of the alternator location.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Cruiser said:

@Curusoam describes it very well except that at the time of certification 03/1999 it was the fasted NA certified airplane in the world. Only 65 were made.
It has great useful load, normally above 1000#

The Eagle is a great airplane but it was never the fastest NA certified airplane. It was produced at the same time as the Ovation  which had 36 more horsepower (244 vs. 280). At one point for sure the Ovation was the fastest certified NA single piston airplane produced. (https://www.pilotmall.com/blogs/news/10-fastest-single-engine-planes-today)

The seventh paragraph of the AOPA article below from February 1999 when the Eagle was introduced shows that at 75% power the Eagle would max out at 175 knots and at 75% power the Ovation would max out at 188 knots.

 

https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/aircraft-and-ownership/aircraft-fact-sheets/mooney-eagle

[Cruiser]

I probably am wrong but the Eagle was flight tested in late 1998, the O2 was not produced until 2000 and it had a two blade prop that gave it that additional speed. I don't think the original Ovations were that fast. 

 

[LANCECASPER]

45 minutes ago, Cruiser said:

I probably am wrong but the Eagle was flight tested in late 1998, the O2 was not produced until 2000 and it had a two blade prop that gave it that additional speed. I don't think the original Ovations were that fast. 
 

The Ovation came out in 1994 and max cruise was 190 kts. Here's the ad from Flying Magazine in 1994 that describes it as the best performing naturally-aspirated single-engine production aircraft.





 
Here's the 1994 Flying Magazine article:
https://books.google.com/books?id=J6O7Ctdb13MC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=true
 
In 2000 the Ovation 2 was introduced with the 2 blade prop and max cruise was 194 knots. This article discusses the difference between the Eagle and Ovation 2:
https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2000/february/pilot/mooney-ovation2

[Cruiser]

is there anyone here that has flown an 1994 Ovation at 190 KTAS ?

"According to Mooneys preliminary marketing boilerplate, the Eagles max cruise is 175 knots versus 188 knots for the Ovation but based on flying both, our guess is that real-world cruise numbers will be a bit closer, on the order of a 5 to 7 knot spread. (The horsepower delta is only 36, which seems more likely to show up as increased climb than a huge cruise gain, especially given the Eagles purpose-designed cruise prop.)" -- https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/mooney-m20s-eagle/

I concede. 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Cruiser
correction

[cbarry]

175 v 188; marketing dollars buy pencil sharpeners first!  

[Hank]

32 minutes ago, cbarry said:

marketing dollars buy pencil sharpeners first!  

Spend $5, get a Pentel 0.5mm, you'll never need another pencil sharpener.  

[RACACH]

Looking but not finding where to purchase the 280hp stc for my eagle.  Help please. 

[Yetti]

29 minutes ago, RACACH said:

Looking but not finding where to purchase the 280hp stc for my eagle.  Help please. 

It's weird.  The Later Ovations have the STC in them because Mooney Bought it from the guy.   There is a case to be made that earlier Ovations could have the STC done to them.   The Eagle is a different model so it probably still needs the STC.   But it may not exist since Mooney bought it.    A call to the factory may reveal more information.   A talk with your A/P may also be helpful.

[RACACH]

Eagle 2 is essentially an Ovation with de-rated engine, less fuel capacity and maybe a bit less UL but that is model to model.  Mine has about 900lb UL 

Edited July 6 by RACACH

[NickG]

On 9/30/2023 at 2:36 AM, Cruiser said:

is there anyone here that has flown an 1994 Ovation at 190 KTAS ?

"According to Mooneys preliminary marketing boilerplate, the Eagles max cruise is 175 knots versus 188 knots for the Ovation but based on flying both, our guess is that real-world cruise numbers will be a bit closer, on the order of a 5 to 7 knot spread. (The horsepower delta is only 36, which seems more likely to show up as increased climb than a huge cruise gain, especially given the Eagles purpose-designed cruise prop.)" -- https://www.aviationconsumer.com/aircraftreviews/mooney-m20s-eagle/

I concede. 

My 94 O with the O3 STC has come very close 188-189. I have opened it up a couple times to see what it will do. May be able to squeeze another knot or two. I even have tks panels which make it slower than a clean wing.

in Mx right now, when I get it back next week I’ll try a hero run again and this time take photos. Would never cruise at those setting tho. My preferred cruise is around 175-177 ktas

[M20S Driver]

14 hours ago, RACACH said:

Looking but not finding where to purchase the 280hp stc for my eagle.  Help please. 

There are two different ones for Eagle.  My Eagle had one to go from 244 HP to 280 HP which was sold by Bob Minnis.  Bob later developed a 310 HP version and sold it to Mooney. I bought the 310 HP version from Mooney.  The 310 HP version also increases the take off weight to 3368 lbs.
-driver

[LANCECASPER]

23 hours ago, RACACH said:

Looking but not finding where to purchase the 280hp stc for my eagle.  Help please. 

Mooney owns the STC for the Ovation to bring it from 280 to 310 hp.

I believe Bob Minnis still owns the STCs for the M20S (Eagle) to bring it to either 280 or 310 hp.

He also still owns the STC for the Acclaim to bring it from 280 to 310hp.

Bob Minnis 

678-398-9781 office

678-361-5696 cell

bobminnis@comcast.net

[T. Peterson]

On 9/26/2023 at 7:35 PM, KSMooniac said:

Yes! Generally lighter, cheaper, and less loaded with old stuff compared to an Ovation, but upgradeable to 310 HP. A great canvas to create your perfect long body with great useful load.

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

I would love to have a Screaming Eagle, but not many available.

[Niko182]

I bought the STC for the 310HP conversion from AGL who bought it from Mooney. Don't know if Bob owns the STC to the 280HP conversion, But i'm fairly certain I bought my STC from Mooney to get my screaming eagle.

[1980Mooney]

@LANCECASPER is right.  The 280 hp STC is still ultimately owned by Bob Minnis.  It was first in the name of Minnis Aviation LLC.  Then it was in the name of PowerLite LLC.  In 2019 PowerLite LLC was changed to AvPower LLC.  They are all Minnis. You will see documents in all the names.

STC Number:    SA02988AT

You will need a Hartzell PHC-J3YF-1RF/F7693DF(B) which is the standard 3 blade prop on Cirrus SR-22 and SR-22T.  You should be able to find a used or overhauled one easily.

 

 

[Chris K]

Replying to original poster - yes, it is a fantastic choice of an airplane.  The engine and airframe are identical to the Ovation series.  I've flown several versions of the Eagle (both with 2 blade and 3 blade props), as well as several different Ovations (original 3 blade McCauley and the Hartzell top prop).  Speeds and fuel burn will always vary based on how you maintain the airplane and how it is equipped. 

The Eagle has a lighter weight advantage vs. the Ovation. 

A 3 blade prop equipped aircraft will accelerate more quickly down the runway as it is capable of generating more static thrust from a standstill.  That advantage is typically lost by the time you get above 120 KIAS or so.  In my experience, the 3 blade will climb more quickly at speeds under 120 KIAS.  Possibly the 3 blade has an advantage in climb over 10k feet but I haven't taken an Ovation over 10k to know either way.

Equipment and maintenance does make a difference.  My plane is equipped with GAMI, an electronic ignition w/variable timing, K&N filter, a relatively low time engine, I keep the cylinders warm year round with a new generation tanis heater system, and retain the 2 blade McCauley prop.  I've flown back to back vs. 3 other Eagles and get around 6 KIAS or better than other 2 blades without GAMI/ignition/filter and the care that mine receives.  Against the 3 blade McCauley version, I saw even better numbers and was actually quite surprised at the lack of both cruise and climb performance with that one (it was limited to 2400 RPM).  I've flown Ovations with the 3 blade McCauley and even at 2500 RPM were still considerably slower than my 2 blade Eagle.  The difference between the 3 blade McCauley Ovation vs 3 blade McCauley Eagle resulted in about the same cruise speed (RPM did not make much difference) and the Ovation had slightly better takeoff performance due to the higher RPM.  The 3 blade Hartzell equipped Ovations are faster than the 3 blade McCauley props.  I've never flown an O2 with the 2 blade "toothpick" prop so cannot compare.  At the same horsepower/fuel burn setting of a standard 2 blade Eagle vs a 3 blade Hartzell, there is no discernable difference in cruise speed in my experience.  I typically cruise 184 KTAS at 8-9K feet and plan for 14-15 GPH (that will vary slightly depending on OAT, pressure, etc.).  If in a rush, I can burn more fuel and coax about 188 KTAS in cruise, though fuel burn is in excess of 16 GPH (I don't typically fly at this setting so don't recall specific GPH).  Could I see 190+ KTAS?  Possibly, but regardless if in my plane or any 3 blade Hartzell equipped version, the fuel burn becomes exponential to tweak out the extra knot or two.  I remember flying an O3 with a sales demonstrator pilot who wanted to show off the performance of the 310HP top prop version.  I thought it was quick until I noticed his unusually high power setting burning around 20 GPH in order to achieve around 168 KIAS at 5k feet.  In other words you are not going to achieve miracle type increase of airspeeds using the exact same airframe without a substantial increase in power.  I also cannot speak to longevity running at max power settings either.

In summary, yes they are fantastic aircraft, though not quite as common due to being produced for maybe 3 years.  Any aircraft you do purchase, spend time to go through it thoroughly and expect to spend extra $ the first couple years to deal with any previous maintenance shortcuts especially if you want to extract highest performance/efficiency. 

If Mooney ever makes a comeback, they should come back with the Ultra version of the airframe and offer a packages similar to the Eagle and the J models that could compete with the Cirrus 20/22 models.  I've also never met a mechanic that felt the Cirrus airframe is better than a Mooney. 

 

[M20S Driver]

I had my Eagle for 12 years now and truly enjoyed owning it.  I have to admit that some days (right around annuals)  I miss my old 182.

I bought the Eagle with the original STC which changed to three bladed prop spinning at 2500 RPM.  I considered that a perfect combination.  As my kids grew older and heavier, I moved to the 310HP STC to help me climb out of Truckee in the summer evenings.  It also increased my MTOW to 3368lb which I never used climbing out of Truckee.   I am still waiting for a parachute STC