Flight Director: single or dual cue?

[PT20J]

There is a thread on BT about this and it seems that by far the dual cue (cross) is preferred over the single cue (V-bar). My G3X and G5 came defaulted to the single cue, but they can be easily switched to the dual cue. I've been flying single cue because that's what all the B-K autopilots I've flown had and so I'm used to it. Supposedly, the single cue is more intuitive, but the dual cue is more precise. I understand that most of the airlines are flying dual cue. I'm interested in other's preferences and especially your experience and learning curve switching from single to dual.

Skip

 

[Ragsf15e]

27 minutes ago, PT20J said:

There is a thread on BT about this and it seems that by far the dual cue (cross) is preferred over the single cue (V-bar). My G3X and G5 came defaulted to the single cue, but they can be easily switched to the dual cue. I've been flying single cue because that's what all the B-K autopilots I've flown had and so I'm used to it. Supposedly, the single cue is more intuitive, but the dual cue is more precise. I understand that most of the airlines are flying dual cue. I'm interested in other's preferences and especially your experience and learning curve switching from single to dual.

Skip

 

When I was teaching for the local flight school, the SR-20s were all set to single cue.  I didn’t like it, but it wasn’t terrible. When I started flying a G1000 for work, I set it to dual cue.  To me it’s easier to separate the commands when I’m hand flying or setting the autopilot before engaging.  It just makes it easier for me to see and separate which “dimension” it’s trying to command for.  

[takair]

At a previous job I was doing integration/development work on a jet flight deck that would allow three options, single cue, dual cue and flight path marker.  I personally liked dual cue best.  I found it intuitive, especially after flying a basic CDI for years.  I found it easier to separate the commands in a more serial fashion.  I didn’t find it too difficult to bounce between cues, even in the same flight (non motion sim).  I think the precision depended on the software coding.  I seem to recall that the flight path marker was the most precise, but was more difficult to master, then came single cue, then dual…..but again,…old memory and one avionics system.  They were all certified to the same minimums, although the HUD only had flight path marker, which I believe is now certified to the runway….but that’s an entirely different discussion.

Try them both and see which you like better. 

[PT20J]

Well, I can do a lot of experimenting since the G3X has, besides single/dual cue FD, a flight path marker, synthetic vision, and HITS (Highway in the sky) boxes.

[rickseeman]

HITS is kinky, but it looks easy.

[GeeBee]

Flown both, don't really care. I use both of them easily and transition back and forth easily. Really liked the FPM on the HUD however. Shot a manual CAT III to 700 RVR one night on KMSY runway 10 (now 11). Easy peasy.

 

 

[Pinecone]

All my experience with FD is dual cue (T-38 and A-10).  

I found it very easy to use.  I should play with single cue on my flight sim. 

[StevenL757]

@GeeBee Ditto here.  My first glass cockpit experiences were dual-cue.  It wasn’t until learning how to use Garmin glass hardware that I really learned single-cue; so I can switch back and forth now with little effort.  Still prefer dual-cue but if my captains prefer single in the work airplanes, then that’s what we use.

[Tom 4536]

16 hours ago, PT20J said:

Well, I can do a lot of experimenting since the G3X has, besides single/dual cue FD, a flight path marker, synthetic vision, and HITS (Highway in the sky) boxes.

Can the GI 275 be switched to Dual Cue?

[201Mooniac]

6 minutes ago, Tom 4536 said:

Can the GI 275 be switched to Dual Cue?

Yes, menu, options, FD Format

[Planegary]

I Have used both single cue and dual cue in simulator training. The single cue is much easier for me personally. In my experience the single cue is much more intuitive to use but everybody is different. Most of the pilots that I fly with that have a military background prefer the dual cue because that is what they used in their military training and the g a pilots use the single cue but that is from my limited experience and others might have different experiences

[midlifeflyer]

I have not flown dual cue but I can see the attraction of something that looks like the indicators in a traditional HSI or ILS indicator.

"Intuitive" is like beauty - in the mind of the beholder.

[carusoam]

2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

 

"Intuitive" is like beauty - in the mind of the beholder.

Both graphic systems deliver the same exact information…(?)

It is up to the pilot interpreting the images to determine which is better for them…

 

unlocking how the brain works (or doesn’t work) would be interesting….  

Best regards,

-a-

[Rjfanjet]

The E175 starts a dual cue then single cue at 1000 AGL or a height that can be programmed in the FMS appropriate to the airport we are departing.

[PT20J]

48 minutes ago, Rjfanjet said:

The E175 starts a dual cue then single cue at 1000 AGL or a height that can be programmed in the FMS appropriate to the airport we are departing.

Do they explain the rationale?

[67 m20F chump]

The GA planes I started with had single.  The planes at work dual.  I have way more time behind dual.  If I had to guess why it’s dual que at work I would say that is what the military planes have.  I would pick single but both are easy to use.

[Greg Ellis]

I looked through the manual on the G5 and could not find how to switch from single cue to dual cue.  How do you make the switch?   

[jlunseth]

Frankly I don't find the flight director cue very helpful. That was the case with the cue in my old King analog display and now on my 275. The problem is that the thing is just plain wrong a good part of the time. The course is over there to the left and I am a little low but the FD is saying stay level or even turn right. It is fairly accurate on an approach, but on a missed or in cruise, well, you just need to know when it is telling the truth and you can use it, or when it is not and you should ignore it. 

[GeeBee]

Apparently the FAA does not think it is a big deal either. I've been through two mergers where one airline had single cue and the other had dual cue. Never so much as a word like, "you can't fly their airplanes because it has a different FD cue", or "you need a sim session to learn the new FD". 

[Pinecone]

21 minutes ago, jlunseth said:

Frankly I don't find the flight director cue very helpful. That was the case with the cue in my old King analog display and now on my 275. The problem is that the thing is just plain wrong a good part of the time. The course is over there to the left and I am a little low but the FD is saying stay level or even turn right. It is fairly accurate on an approach, but on a missed or in cruise, well, you just need to know when it is telling the truth and you can use it, or when it is not and you should ignore it. 

Remember, the autopilot drives the FD cues.  So if you have the same autopilot, it will give you the same wrong info on the fancy new display.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Greg Ellis said:

I looked through the manual on the G5 and could not find how to switch from single cue to dual cue.  How do you make the switch?   

It would be a configuration mode setting. Hold down the knob while powering up the G5. Rotate the knob to move around the menus and press it to select. The last menu option is Exit configuration mode. I haven’t changed it, so I’m not sure which menu it’s in and the Installation Manual doesn’t say — probably Attitude or Display. Unlike many certified avionics, the G5 installation manual can be downloaded from Garmin's website.

Edited February 7, 2023 by PT20J
Clarified that installation manual is available for download

[Greg Ellis]

20 minutes ago, PT20J said:

It would be a configuration mode setting. Hold down the knob while powering up the G5. Rotate the knob to move around the menus and press it to select. The last menu option is Exit configuration mode. I haven’t changed it, so I’m not sure which menu it’s in and the Installation Manual doesn’t say — probably Attitude or Display. Unlike many certified avionics, the G5 installation manual can be downloaded from Garmin's website.

Thank you!!!

[Rjfanjet]

10 hours ago, PT20J said:

Do they explain the rationale?

It happens at minimum flap retraction altitude. It triggers our "Climb Sequence After Takeoff Checklist" call.

[PT20J]

3 minutes ago, Rjfanjet said:

It happens at minimum flap retraction altitude. It triggers our "Climb Sequence After Takeoff Checklist" call.

So, it's a flag to remind you to read a checklist? Are Brazilians forgetful?

[cliffy]

I found that single cue was best for me after 40 years of flying

Hand flown CAT IIIs to 50 feet in the airplane (good Wx) or sim were easy. 

Wouldn't go back to the old days of 2 cue. 

Which ever is used make sure raw data is in the scan especially at sim check time :-)

Nice to have lower mins at some runways with FDs available.