Mooney 201 lands on high power lines in MD

[Shadrach]

17 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

How so on efficiency? On the all seasons I run about 36 MPH average and about 33 on the Performance tires.

And SUPER low maintenance.  I have replaced a few bulbs, one set of each type of tires, one set of brake pads (fronts probably are getting needy), one battery, and had to have the winter wheels (stock 16” Abarth wheels) refinished.  10 years 92K miles

30 mpg was about the best I do with mixed gentle driving. The upshot was that was driving it like a teenager never yielded any worse than about 24mpg. I loved the way it snorted and barked off throttle.

[201er]

 

[Nippernaper]

From several youtube videos playing the live atc audio feed from earlier in the flight, it seems this pilot was having serious trouble flying vectors and programming his gps. You could see this coming. Descending below glidepath is a distressingly common cause of ifr accidents. No equipment failures required. He probably struck the wires away from the tower, and they redirected him into the structure, at a reduced speed.


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[redbaron1982]

41 minutes ago, 201er said:

 

Was the guy even IFR rated? Or was he incapacitated? It's shocking how sloppy he was even with simple indications from ATC.

[Shadrach]

34 minutes ago, Nippernaper said:

From several youtube videos playing the live atc audio feed from earlier in the flight, it seems this pilot was having serious trouble flying vectors and programming his gps. You could see this coming. Descending below glidepath is a distressingly common cause of ifr accidents. No equipment failures required. He probably struck the wires away from the tower, and they redirected him into the structure, at a reduced speed.


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Two towers side by side. According to the fire chief he hit and severed wires on the north tower and then hit the south tower.

[redbaron1982]

13 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Yes but he didn't seem to know the waypoints associated with the RNAV 14 approach at his home base - KGAI.  When ATC told him multiple times to fly to BEGKA (IF) the pilot was not able to figure out what or where it was.  He turned about 90 degrees off course.  ATC had to spell it for him.  At one point they told him to fly to RUANE (IAF) and he never turned the right direction.  It is as if he didn't have any charts and if he did it is as if he never briefed or looked at the RNAV(GPS)14 plate before.

Not even load the approach in the 430, because he would have had the waypoints right there if he would have loaded the approach. 

It's really very strange, it would really insightful for the guy to show up and explain what happened. 

In the 911 audio, near the end you can hear him saying "I'm sorry. I shouldn't have descent that low" or something along those lines. 

[Shadrach]

8 hours ago, Hank said:

Interesting . . . . The pilot sounds like he's in pretty good shape.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/maryland-plane-crash-911-calls-released-revealing-harrowing-details

 

I find it odd. He had just made a mess of the approach, descended below minimums and then hit a tower but he didn’t even sound like his heart rate was elevated. The 911 dispatcher seemed more unnerved by the call then he did. Sounded surreal when he broke off the 911 call to yell “how’s it going” to the initial first responder. 

[Ibra]

6 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

When ATC told him multiple times to fly to BEGKA (IF) the pilot was not able to figure out what or where it was.  He turned about 90 degrees off course.  ATC had to spell it for him.  At one point they told him to fly to RUANE (IAF) and he never turned the right direction

I am worried he flew direct FAF (TIMBE), in the heat of the moment, if one does that on WAAS they don't get glide slope (official GS in LPV or advisory +V in LNAV+V) and they don't get the missed procedure at M/DA, they only fly FAF-RWY leg with "approach not active", on non-WAAS GPS you don't get APR annunciation but at least you know that you don't have glideslope and hopefully you are used to fly without one 

On this approach on these conditions, I won’t go down without LPV flashing and Gerorge (AP) holding the yoke for me !

I know ATC do give shortcuts to IF (BEGKA) or vector to 2nm before FAF on GPS but in these conditions of low visibility & ceiling, I think flying the whole approach from IAF (RUANE) is the safest bet, you just ask ATC direct "RUANE" and sit on it, no need to hurry up as there is not much traffic going on: fiddling with GPS approach with direct to FAF and 90deg intercept course is usually bad: unless one carefully monitors GPS messages, they only know about it when glidesslope fails (on GPS-W) or glitch when loading missed procedure at M/DA (on non-W GPS)

 

I recall while ago getting direct to a point to start procedure that was not listed on my GPS as IAF or transition, I gently asked ATC to get direct ABCDE that I have active my GPS and briefed on plates already (one can activate legs, press here and there, check taa, open plates and re-breif...I was lazy and slightly behind aircraft on that one)

Edited November 30, 2022 by Ibra

[larrynimmo]

This pilot is either not ifr certified, or at least not current…there were so many course deviations that ATC should have suggested diverting.

I fly out of KESN in easton Md…we have 4 runways and I know every fix of every runway

[takair]

When the live ATC recording pick up and ATC clears the aircraft to BEGKA, and the aircraft turns NW….I wonder if they had simply mis-entered BECKA instead.  This is a fix in the general direction the aircraft turned.  I’ve certainly misheard or misdialed fixes in the 430.  I know one could have just set up the procedure and pulled it that way, but perhaps they did it manually instead when given the fix.  Not that this would be a direct reason for the accident, but I know these things can set up for some anxiety that can carry through the flight.

Edit: only hearing half of the conversation on recordings I’ve heard, so hard to know what was read back to ATC….but BEGKA and BECKA can certainly sound similar.

[Pinecone]

14 hours ago, Shadrach said:

30 mpg was about the best I do with mixed gentle driving. The upshot was that was driving it like a teenager never yielded any worse than about 24mpg. I loved the way it snorted and barked off throttle.

I see.  I leave the display in Average Fuel Economy to temper my driving.

But spring, after switching to the performance summer tires and driving with the windows down, it is HARD to keep off the loud pedal.

 

[M20F]

5 hours ago, Ibra said:

I recall while ago getting direct to a point to start procedure that was not listed on my GPS as IAF or transition, I gently asked ATC to get direct ABCDE that I have active my GPS and briefed on plates already (one can activate legs, press here and there, check taa, open plates and re-breif...I was lazy and slightly behind aircraft on that one)

This I think is an important take away and a reminder that similar to not being afraid to declare an emergency nobody should be afraid to exercise 91.3.  

Fly safe!

[Yetti]

from the useless knowledge category.  You can tell the voltage from how long the insulators are.   The insulators are just a bit longer than the voltage can arc.   So put a 5 foot person closer than the insulators are and you with have a nice arcing show.   BBBBZZZZZZTTTTT

[ilovecornfields]

I’m wondering if hypoxia was as issue (or fatigue). That medical posted looks like an SI (not valid for any class after one year) so maybe he had sleep apnea or some other condition that impaired him. The approach track posted on the YouTube video (how did they even get that?) and the one-sided ATC audio certainly don’t give the impression of someone on their “A game.” Not sure how experienced the passenger was or if she was impaired and whether or not the pilot had any insight into how poorly he was flying at the time. I feel that if ATC kept calling out my deviations like that my wife would have spoken up. I’m jealous of the couples here who are both pilots and get to help each other out in situations like this.

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, takair said:

had simply mis-entered BECKA instead

Great local knowledge and I could easily see myself confusing BECKA for BEGKA since I'm not really familiar with the area.  (Haven't been in the DC area since pre 9/11.) 

But, sitting squarely in the "arm chair" piloting zone, I would think if he had the approach loaded it would have been a lot harder to mistake the fix.  Granted we'll never know, but in theory it should have already been in his list.  I have not flown with a 430w, but I have heard people say it is a little harder to switch modes.  Wondering (again, thought process not saying he blew it in any way) if he thought he was going to get Vectors To Final and had already Activated the Approach when ATC sent him to a fix?  If not fully up on the box it could have thrown him to get out of the V2F and find the fix.  Maybe someone that has the box can fill me in?

 

[flyboy0681]

25 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I’m wondering if hypoxia was as issue (or fatigue). That medical posted looks like an SI (not valid for any class after one year) so maybe he had sleep apnea or some other condition that impaired him. The approach track posted on the YouTube video (how did they even get that?) and the one-sided ATC audio certainly don’t give the impression of someone on their “A game.” Not sure how experienced the passenger was or if she was impaired and whether or not the pilot had any insight into how poorly he was flying at the time. I feel that if ATC kept calling out my deviations like that my wife would have spoken up. I’m jealous of the couples here who are both pilots and get to help each other out in situations like this.

CO² perhaps?

 

[ilovecornfields]

11 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

CO² perhaps?

 

CO perhaps. You’d have to have a pretty high concentration of CO2 (enough to physically displace the oxygen in the room) in order for that to be an issue. One of the residents shared a helpful memory aid with me:

[PeteMc]

Patrick Merkle has apparently given some interviews.  Here's a short blurb I just ran across.  (Sorry if it was already posted, I didn't see it anywhere.)

https://wjla.com/news/local/maryland-plane-crash-patrick-merkle-pilot-power-tower-gaithersburg-montgomery-county-airpark-miraculous-one-point-landing?fbclid=IwAR1gclJbhQQTAMvBkwmIKh3NuuOPcgDhzFYbvS5ZMluhqAwwts-CTN9L4MQ

[redbaron1982]

Just wondering who's going to pay for al the mess he did. Insurance goes so far for liability. I doubt that his insurance had a limit so high to cover all the expenses out of this. Has to be multimillion dollar damage we're are talking about here.

How this works out?

[Shadrach]

4 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

CO perhaps. You’d have to have a pretty high concentration of CO2 (enough to physically displace the oxygen in the room) in order for that to be an issue. One of the residents shared a helpful memory aid with me:

am I misunderstanding meme? Shouldn’t the top image say carbon dioxide? My understanding is that hemoglobin has a “Tony Montana” affinity for CO (by a multiple of somethin like 200 times).

[PeteMc]

21 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Just wondering who's going to pay for al the mess he did. Insurance goes so far for liability.

Not a lawyer and not in the insurance biz.  But my guess is they are self insured for all the stupidity that happens that you know no individual is going to have the coverage for.  Had it been some huge corporate entity, maybe.  But otherwise I'm sure they just write it off.  I'm also sure it will be included in the numbers the next time they go to the state(s) to ask for a rate increase too.

I'm curious to hear from anyone that was in the area.  How long did it take them to reroute the power?

 

[jaylw314]

3 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

am I misunderstanding meme? Shouldn’t the top image say carbon dioxide? My understanding is that hemoglobin has an “Tony Montana” affinity for CO (by a multiple of somethin like 200 times).

I think the sequence is more of a before->after meme  didn't have anything to do with CO2

Edited November 30, 2022 by jaylw314

[A64Pilot]

36 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Just wondering who's going to pay for al the mess he did. Insurance goes so far for liability. I doubt that his insurance had a limit so high to cover all the expenses out of this. Has to be multimillion dollar damage we're are talking about here.

How this works out?

Just like any other accident, if there is no insurence very often the “victim” has insurence that covers that, but very large corporations as they have the capitol tend to be self insured. No uninsured insurence? You eat it, just like if you’re sitting at a red light and an un-insured motorist hits you, not only are you out the car but get to eat the medical costs, missed work etc. unless your insured for that.

We tend to think the damage is huge etc, but compared to an ice storm or tornado or even a forest fire it’s likely small potato’s 

Now if this was a weekly occurrence, then that’s different, but I’d bet GA airplanes taking out a high voltage power transmission line is extraordinarily rare.

Of course that won’t stop the local noise complainers that bought the house knowing the airport was there from having another excuse for closing it, and they may have Allies in developers who have been salivating over those 100 acres, probably could build 200 or more homes there.

[Shadrach]

29 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I think the sequence is more of a before->after meme  didn't have anything to do with CO2

That makes sense now.

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

am I misunderstanding meme? Shouldn’t the top image say carbon dioxide? My understanding is that hemoglobin has an “Tony Montana” affinity for CO (by a multiple of somethin like 200 times).

You are correct. Hemoglobin has a much higher affinity for carbon monoxide (CO) than oxygen (O2) so if even a small amount of CO is present it will alter the affinity of hemoglobin for oxygen essentially making hemoglobin grab all the oxygen around it but not let it go, thereby impairing oxygen delivery to the tissues and causing what is termed “anemic hypoxia” because there is plenty of oxygen around, but it’s not getting delivered to the tissues.

Carbon dioxide (CO2), the molecule responsible for bubbles in beer, does not have this property so in order for CO2 to cause hypoxia the concentration would have to be so high as to displace the oxygen in the room. The memory aid was to recall that hemoglobin has a high affinity for carbon MONOXIDE only and does not involve CO2.

For further reading:

Pathophysiology

CO toxicity causes impaired oxygen delivery and utilization at the cellular level. CO affects several different sites within the body but has its most profound impact on the organs (eg, brain, heart) with the highest oxygen requirement.

 

Cellular hypoxia from CO toxicity is caused by impedance of oxygen delivery. CO reversibly binds hemoglobin, resulting in relative functional anemia. Because it binds hemoglobin 230-270 times more avidly than oxygen, even small concentrations can result in significant levels of carboxyhemoglobin (HbCO).

 

An ambient CO level of 100 ppm produces an HbCO of 16% at equilibration, which is enough to produce clinical symptoms. Binding of CO to hemoglobin causes an increased binding of oxygen molecules at the three other oxygen-binding sites, resulting in a leftward shift in the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve and decreasing the availability of oxygen to the already hypoxic tissues.

 

CO binds to cardiac myoglobin with an even greater affinity than to hemoglobin; the resulting myocardial depression and hypotension exacerbates the tissue hypoxia. Decrease in oxygen delivery is insufficient, however, to explain the extent of the CO toxicity. Clinical status often does not correlate well with HbCO level, leading some to postulate an additional impairment of cellular respiration.
 

https://emedicine.medscape.com/article/819987-overview#a5