Compression Socks

[201er]

Is this you flying a Mooney?

[201er]

This should help keep you guys from hijacking my flying threads. And we'll get to find out if this is the latest Mooney flyers fashion.

[Marauder]

Is this you flying a Mooney?

You betcha. You’ll be surprised how many people had DVTs and never knew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

Besides, you always wear cargo pants - who would know you had them?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

I’ll share a little more detail on blood clots. I have had DVTs twice. I went through reaaaallly extensive tests (full body MRIs, genetic tests, etc.) to determine the cause (my family has 0 history of it). None of the tests could identify the cause. I have read that some researchers believe a non-identified gene still may be to blame. I was fortunate that I didn’t throw any pulmonary embolisms.

Both episodes occurred after really long business trips. The first time I knew I was a bit dehydrated but had no idea how sitting dehydrated and not moving could result in DVTs. There were warning signs (swelling ankles for one) that I ignored.

The second time came 7 years later. I was cattle packed on an international flight and due to turbulence, didn’t drink much. I had my compression socks on and was on 81 mg aspirin. I should have been doing leg exercises and forced myself to drink more and let the attendants deal with the puddle under my seat.

Since the last episode, I am extremely careful flying long legs. I fly shorter legs in my plane, drink water like a fish, have an Amazon subscription to Travel Johns and make sure my AP is in top shape so I can stretch the legs and get in those leg exercises.

Here is the sobering point. Since I had a number of follow up visits for ultrasounds on my legs to determine the extent of scarring, I got to know the techs well. I asked a few of them if they ever saw patients who clearly had evidence of old DVTs but didn’t know they had them - everyone of them said yes.

Just because you’re young doesn’t mean you can’t get them. Serena Williams, Joey Sindelar and Jimmy Bosh got them. Along with a number of other young athletes. Not to mention Jimmy Stewart died from a clot in his lung as well as Gary Shandling from a clot in his heart.

Sorry for soap box, but after my experiences, thought it would be beneficial to share my experiences. It is a sneaky killer…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[aviatoreb]

10 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I’ll share a little more detail on blood clots. I have had DVTs twice. I went through reaaaallly extensive tests (full body MRIs, genetic tests, etc.) to determine the cause (my family has 0 history of it). None of the tests could identify the cause. I have read that some researchers believe a non-identified gene still may be to blame. I was fortunate that I didn’t throw any pulmonary embolisms.

Both episodes occurred after really long business trips. The first time I knew I was a bit dehydrated but had no idea how sitting dehydrated and not moving could result in DVTs. There were warning signs (swelling ankles for one) that I ignored.

The second time came 7 years later. I was cattle packed on an international flight and due to turbulence, didn’t drink much. I had my compression socks on and was on 81 mg aspirin. I should have been doing leg exercises and forced myself to drink more and let the attendants deal with the puddle under my seat.

Since the last episode, I am extremely careful flying long legs. I fly shorter legs in my plane, drink water like a fish, have an Amazon subscription to Travel Johns and make sure my AP is in top shape so I can stretch the legs and get in those leg exercises.

Here is the sobering point. Since I had a number of follow up visits for ultrasounds on my legs to determine the extent of scarring, I got to know the techs well. I asked a few of them if they ever saw patients who clearly had evidence of old DVTs but didn’t know they had them - everyone of them said yes.

Just because you’re young doesn’t mean you can’t get them. Serena Williams, Joey Sindelar and Jimmy Bosh got them. Along with a number of other young athletes. Not to mention Jimmy Stewart died from a clot in his lung as well as Gary Shandling from a clot in his heart.

Sorry for soap box, but after my experiences, thought it would be beneficial to share my experiences. It is a sneaky killer…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

And I hear that atheletes can be more prone / not less prone.

e

[M20F]

For the serious end of the topic.  I blaze a lot of airline miles a year.  Less long haul these days but I used to do 12+ China round trips a year In recent years (In my 40’s). 
 
My feet swell to watermelon size when I don’t wear compression socks on a long haul which I would classify as something like ATL to LAX.  I do ATL-DFW seems to be ok.  I sit in a very pleasant section of the plane. 
 
I had no issues in the Mooney even rocketing FL250 for 4-5hrs.  I also had no issues in my 20-30’s when I blazed more international long haul travel then an airline Pilot (like around the world every week).  
 
I toss the socks in my carry on and if I think XYZ hours are going to be too much then I put them on and my feet don’t swell. 

[201er]

This whole DVT thing…. Is this from not moving your legs for a while? Is it just as dangerous to sleep at night then?

Or is it the low pressure at altitude? Or the posture of the legs with the knee bent sitting in an airline seat?

[aviatoreb]

6 minutes ago, M20F said:

For the serious end of the topic.  I blaze a lot of airline miles a year.  Less long haul these days but I used to do 12+ China round trips a year In recent years (In my 40’s). 
 
My feet swell to watermelon size when I don’t wear compression socks on a long haul which I would classify as something like ATL to LAX.  I do ATL-DFW seems to be ok.  I sit in a very pleasant section of the plane. 
 
I had no issues in the Mooney even rocketing FL250 for 4-5hrs.  I also had no issues in my 20-30’s when I blazed more international long haul travel then an airline Pilot (like around the world every week).  
 
I toss the socks in my carry on and if I think XYZ hours are going to be too much then I put them on and my feet don’t swell. 

I wonder if the fact that in the Mooney we sit more low with our feet more out in front of us instead of higher with our feet and legs below us on an airliner is a contributing factor to the difference.

[M20F]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

I wonder if the fact that in the Mooney we sit more low with our feet more out in front of us instead of higher with our feet and legs below us on an airliner is a contributing factor to the difference.

I have a lot of differing GA time on a lot of planes including a lot of C320 time which is like the airline set bend and I have done a lot of FL in it.  
 
I am not a doctor can only share my personal experience is which is the long haul hurts me.  This includes a lot of time in a bunk of a freighter.  I would sleep LUX->PVG and if I forgot my socks my feet would be swollen for 4-5hrs after we landed.  Anecdotal at best. 

[Marauder]

This whole DVT thing…. Is this from not moving your legs for a while? Is it just as dangerous to sleep at night then?
Or is it the low pressure at altitude? Or the posture of the legs with the knee bent sitting in an airline seat?

Some of it is the gravity thing. If you are laying prone, it is easier for blood to return to the heart. That said, people who end up in bed for long periods of time are at a higher risk. You will sometimes see them using inflatable leg wraps in the hospital for people undergoing surgery.

I have a set that I use when I am home sitting for a while.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Mufflerbearing]

I have not thought about this DVT issue.  I usually use electric heated socks because feet get cold!!

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, M20F said:

For the serious end of the topic.  I blaze a lot of airline miles a year.  Less long haul these days but I used to do 12+ China round trips a year In recent years (In my 40’s). 
 
My feet swell to watermelon size when I don’t wear compression socks on a long haul which I would classify as something like ATL to LAX.  I do ATL-DFW seems to be ok.  I sit in a very pleasant section of the plane. 
 
I had no issues in the Mooney even rocketing FL250 for 4-5hrs.  I also had no issues in my 20-30’s when I blazed more international long haul travel then an airline Pilot (like around the world every week).  
 
I toss the socks in my carry on and if I think XYZ hours are going to be too much then I put them on and my feet don’t swell. 

 

Similar here.  I am OK up to about 3 hour flight commercial.  Longer than that, and I cannot get my shoes back on without compression socks.

And the really long flights in economy are the worst.  

[A64Pilot]

12 hours ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I have not thought about this DVT issue.  I usually use electric heated socks because feet get cold!!

I never have either, but on long distance Business (airline) flights I did notice my boots fit tight when I put them on to get off the plane so some swelling was going on for sure.

Never had that issue flying myself, and I have done nearly 12 hour legs ferrying aircraft. I wonder what’s the difference?

[201er]

I thought the swelling on long flights is due to lower air pressure keeping your meat pressed in? Less pressure, more bulge. 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, 201er said:

I thought the swelling on long flights is due to lower air pressure keeping your meat pressed in? Less pressure, more bulge. 

AFAIK no, it's mostly water there, so air pressure doesn't make much difference.  It's the immobility, you need muscle movement to "pump" fluid back to the heart, since the heart only pumps stuff outwards.  The veins have one-way valves throughout them, in combination with muscle movement, fluid gets pumped back to the heart.  No movement, and you collect fluid away from the heart and down from gravity, e.g. the feet. 

It doesn't help that those one-way valves become less effective with age.

Think about it this way--scuba divers' limbs don't become more bloaty as they ascend, despite a much larger pressure difference.  They just don't want to ascend too fast to prevent degassing fluids and causing bubbles.

[Yetti]

DVT come and go at least in my experience.    If you eat oatmeal it makes clotting less of a thing because you make the RBC slippery.    Two ways to find them is feel the back of the calf for little bumps and extend and retract the ankle it will send a sharp pain because you are compressing the blood into them.

[ilovecornfields]

DVT is a “deep venous thrombosis” not the little guys you can feel by touching your leg. Superficial clots rarely cause problems, it when one of the clots in your deeper veins “goes” and then finds a pulmonary artery that’s the same size and gets stuck there that causes big problems. That’s when people like me get involved.

Yes, we make and break microscopic clots all the time. That’s part of the job of your lung capillaries - to filter them out so you don’t send them to the rest of your body.

I like oatmeal too (especially Bob’s Red Mill Steel Cut Oats) but I’m not aware of any evidence that this reduces your risk of getting a DVT. 

[Marauder]

DVT is a “deep venous thrombosis” not the little guys you can feel by touching your leg. Superficial clots rarely cause problems, it when one of the clots in your deeper veins “goes” and then finds a pulmonary artery that’s the same size and gets stuck there that causes big problems. That’s when people like me get involved.
Yes, we make and break microscopic clots all the time. That’s part of the job of your lung capillaries - to filter them out so you don’t send them to the rest of your body.
I like oatmeal too (especially Bob’s Red Mill Steel Cut Oats) but I’m not aware of any evidence that this reduces your risk of getting a DVT. 

He meant to say “oatmeal with rivaroxaban flavoring”.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Marauder]

DVT come and go at least in my experience.    If you eat oatmeal it makes clotting less of a thing because you make the RBC slippery.    Two ways to find them is feel the back of the calf for little bumps and extend and retract the ankle it will send a sharp pain because you are compressing the blood into them.

My experience was a lot different. The first time the only thing I noticed was one of my calf’s looked bigger. It was, almost an inch wider than the other leg. It was also warm to the touch. I should add that my clots extended from my ankle to my mid thigh. I also had a small one behind my other knee. These symptoms showed up over a week after that extended business trip. I went out to aerate the lawn and I was pooped doing it. I knew something wasn’t right but didn’t know for sure until the next morning.

The second time it happened to the other calf. This time, I noticed a pain like you get with a Charley Horse. Just the dull ache before the really sharp pain. The leg was swollen a little and the clot was limited to the upper calf area. I also felt “off”.

The good news is the treatment has changed a lot over the years. The first time it was Heparin, Lovenox and 6 months on Coumadin (aka rat poison). Of course you had a nice hospital stay. And don’t forget the obligatory FAA SI process and all the tests to look for cause.

Today, it is the ER, pop a pill and talk to your docs to find out what may have caused it.

I think the purpose of this thread is to let you know that there is a risk out there. It can be managed but you need to be proactive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Danb]

19 hours ago, Mufflerbearing said:

I have not thought about this DVT issue.  I usually use electric heated socks because feet get cold!!

MB do the heated socks actually keep your toasty, I have a pair that only slightly warms my feet plus the battery is uncomfortable. Which brand do you use, I’d give them another try if better ones work as yours

[Shadrach]

19 minutes ago, Marauder said:

My experience was a lot different. The first time the only thing I noticed was one of my calf’s looked bigger. It was, almost an inch wider than the other leg. It was also warm to the touch. I should add that my clots extended from my ankle to my mid thigh. I also had a small one behind my other knee. These symptoms showed up over a week after that extended business trip. I went out to aerate the lawn and I was pooped doing it. I knew something wasn’t right but didn’t know for sure until the next morning.

The second time it happened to the other calf. This time, I noticed a pain like you get with a Charley Horse. Just the dull ache before the really sharp pain. The leg was swollen a little and the clot was limited to the upper calf area. I also felt “off”.

The good news is the treatment has changed a lot over the years. The first time it was Heparin, Lovenox and 6 months on Coumadin (aka rat
poison). Of course you had a nice hospital stay. And don’t forget the obligatory FAA SI process and all the tests to look for cause.

Today, it is the ER, pop a pill and talk to your docs to find out what may have caused it.

I think the purpose of this thread is to let you know that there is a risk out there. It can be managed but you need to be proactive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I had one about 8 years ago. Mine presented as pain. One of our cats got out on a winter night and I was chasing him through 10” of snow. My calf cramped under mild exertion.  DVT was confirmed with ultrasound. 90 days on rivaroxaban and it was gone. No one could say why it happened. I had undergone a four compartment Faciotomy (nasty surgical procedure) 5 years earlier. My PCP theorized that the previous trauma to my calf was a cause, but we’ll never know for sure.

[Danb]

Chris I doubt this is related to DVT but recently I’ve been getting Charlie horses many real nasty along with other muscle cramps. Family doc had no answers. Is there a chance that clots are present. I flew 6 hours yesterday and didn’t notice swollen feet, but was completely exhausted. 

[Marauder]

Chris I doubt this is related to DVT but recently I’ve been getting Charlie horses many real nasty along with other muscle cramps. Family doc had no answers. Is there a chance that clots are present. I flew 6 hours yesterday and didn’t notice swollen feet, but was completely exhausted. 

Hey Dan. I think the symptoms present themselves differently for people. I never had swollen feet when I had DVTs. I had them a year before I actually came down with DVTs.

The ultrasound procedure is pretty easy and doesn’t take much time to do. Might bring peace of mind to have it checked out. Might be worthwhile letting your doc know that you flew a long flight and get their input.

For the MooneySpace community, Dan is one MooneySpacer who has seen me in my sexy compression socks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Shadrach]

15 minutes ago, Danb said:

Chris I doubt this is related to DVT but recently I’ve been getting Charlie horses many real nasty along with other muscle cramps. Family doc had no answers. Is there a chance that clots are present. I flew 6 hours yesterday and didn’t notice swollen feet, but was completely exhausted. 

Might be worth an ultrasound. Mine presented very much like a charlie horse in feel if not looks. I’ve had charlie horses that are externally visible…excruciating.