Hidden Damage, Looking for Repair Options

[AerostarDriver]

In the ongoing saga of my ownership experience, I discovered a problem as my IA and I were rolling the airplane in to hangar for the annual. We discovered a crack in the paint on the leading edge of the wing which I don't remember being present when the airplane became stranded after the engine quit recently. 

We started inspecting the crack and realized that it was a rather significate crack in the aluminum skin. Looking in the wing from the navlight hole shows that the crack was stop drilled and filled with some sort of filler. After some stripping and sanding we were able to see the extent of the damage.  My IA is concerned that due to placement and access, doing a simple doubler and flush patch is going to be difficult, he is willing to try it but honestly recommends getting the airplane in a ferriable state and getting it to a shop that specializes in sheet metal repair. I would like to try to not have to replace the whole skin but it is possible that may be easier.

I am familiar with Airmods but I am not tremendously familiar with anyone else in the northeast. Any recommendations on shops or alternative repair options?

 

For those keeping track of my saga, this is the wing that Don Maxwell's shop installed on my airplane back in late 2020. When we got the invoice for the wing swap, the airplane that donated the wing had an NTSB report from a gear up, when I brought up the damage history with the folks over at DMax, they responded with "Well it doesn't have corrosion and we inspected it when we installed the lights, control surfaces and gear."

 

Edited May 4, 2022 by AerostarDriver

[tony]

Are you able to inspect the wing spar? or is that not accessible until you get the wing apart?

[1964-M20E]

First sounds like it is at the wing tip.  My non IA opinion would be to work with your mechanic and patch it.  Yes a new skin is the ideal fix but if a doubler patch is structurally sound, done in accordance with good maintenance techniques and passes inspection by an IA go for it.  You can always get it reskinned later.

[AerostarDriver]

1 hour ago, tony said:

Are you able to inspect the wing spar? or is that not accessible until you get the wing apart?

 

56 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

First sounds like it is at the wing tip.  My non IA opinion would be to work with your mechanic and patch it.  Yes a new skin is the ideal fix but if a doubler patch is structurally sound, done in accordance with good maintenance techniques and passes inspection by an IA go for it.  You can always get it reskinned later.

The spar and the rest of structure appears healthy and straight, in the photo looking in the wing you can see the stiffener before the spar is straight.

 

So AC43.13 says we can do a patch, the restriction is the very tight radius of the leading edge and the forward stiffeners in the bay that effectively set the size of the doubler.

[47U]

9 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

My IA is concerned that due to placement and access, doing a simple doubler and flush patch is going to be difficult, he is willing to try it but honestly recommends getting the airplane in a ferriable state and getting it to a shop that specializes in sheet metal repair. I would like to try to not have to replace the whole skin but it is possible that may be easier.

Unfortunate they didn’t remove the nav light for interior inspection when declaring donor wing serviceable.  But, if there’s no evidence of external damage to the wing leading edge (accomplished by an expert in body filler) I’m not sure there’s fault with the shop.    

Your IA is giving good advice.  On the upside, wing skins ordered from the factory at the end of March were delivered to the west coast in about a month (after advertising a 8-9 weeks lead-time).  

Hang in there… good luck.

[JimB]

10 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

For those keeping track of my saga, this is the wing that Don Maxwell's shop installed on my airplane back in late 2020. When we got the invoice for the wing swap, the airplane that donated the wing had an NTSB report from a gear up, when I brought up the damage history with the folks over at DMax, they responded with "Well it doesn't have corrosion and we inspected it when we installed the lights, control surfaces and gear."

I myself would be making a call to DMax ....................... that's really not acceptable. 

[AerostarDriver]

22 minutes ago, 47U said:

Unfortunate they didn’t remove the nav light for interior inspection when declaring donor wing serviceable.  But, if there’s no evidence of external damage to the wing leading edge (accomplished by an expert in body filler) I’m not sure there’s fault with the shop.    

 

Just now, JimB said:

I myself would be making a call to DMax ....................... that's really not acceptable. 

Actually, the wing came without navlights, DMAX purchased and installed Orion 650s (without approval) So they absolutely had the ability to look inside the wing in this area. My experience with DMax has been extremely poor.

They had the airplane for a little over 8 months with almost no communications. They sent us the invoice when complete with a bunch of work we did not approve of(Replacing an INOP AI when I had purchased G5s to replace the AI, installing Orion navs when I had purchased some already ready to install them when the airplane returned, not so much of a complaint but lack of communication is frustrating). When we got the airplane back the plane was a mess, dirt and wasps nest all over the interior, stall warning horn did not work, gear warning horn was not connected, pitot head was not connected. The Orion sync wire was shorting to airframe ground. Our nice tow bar was not in the airplane and the tow bar they replaced it with was no where near as nice. My new IA is now rerigging the gear that DMAX installed, so the hole in the wing is just insult to injury at this point.

[JimB]

6 minutes ago, AerostarDriver said:

 

Actually, the wing came without navlights, DMAX purchased and installed Orion 650s (without approval) So they absolutely had the ability to look inside the wing in this area. My experience with DMax has been extremely poor.

They had the airplane for a little over 8 months with almost no communications. They sent us the invoice when complete with a bunch of work we did not approve of(Replacing an INOP AI when I had purchased G5s to replace the AI, installing Orion navs when I had purchased some already ready to install them when the airplane returned, not so much of a complaint but lack of communication is frustrating). When we got the airplane back the plane was a mess, dirt and wasps nest all over the interior, stall warning horn did not work, gear warning horn was not connected, pitot head was not connected. The Orion sync wire was shorting to airframe ground. Our nice tow bar was not in the airplane and the tow bar they replaced it with was no where near as nice. My new IA is now rerigging the gear that DMAX installed, so the hole in the wing is just insult to injury at this point.

So the paint on the donor wing matched your aircraft and they didn't have to paint it? Regardless if it was an honest oversight or something else, they installed a used wing. They would be responsible to insure it is an airworthy and serviceable part before installing. 

[EricJ]

That's not the end of the world, for sure.    Def annoying given your history with the airplane, but a doubler should be fine, or potentially even other, easier techniques.   I'd consult some specialists and go from there.   

Even if it has to be reskinned, if it is in the last section near the wingtip it may not be that bad.

 

[PT20J]

Bondoing over a crack seems poor form for reasons you have discovered. Replacing the skin would put it back to original condition. Maxwell fixed similar damage on my plane for it’s previous owner which was more extensive requiring replacement of two ribs, the glare  fence and the wingtip lens in addition to the skin. Impossible to tell it was repaired. $7800 in 2017 including painting. 

[AerostarDriver]

1 hour ago, JimB said:

So the paint on the donor wing matched your aircraft and they didn't have to paint it? Regardless if it was an honest oversight or something else, they installed a used wing. They would be responsible to insure it is an airworthy and serviceable part before installing. 

The paint on the "new wing" matched close enough to the fuselage. No paint required. I want to be clear, I do not believe DMAX did the "repair" but I am disappointed they did not find it.

Edited May 4, 2022 by AerostarDriver

[chriscalandro]

If we’re being honest, if it was sealed and painted that’s not an easy thing to find. 

[Aerodon]

I had Aveo wingtips installed, and I could not see into the first bay in the wing.  I realize that there are various wingtips, but unless they went looking with a borescope I doubt they would have found it from the inside.  On the outside, it would look like a bit of body filler on some hangar rash.

It was a pretty sh1tty repair, but I wouldn't put too much on Dmax.

If I bought  plane like that and the previous owner did that repair, I would not be happy.

Just fix it and move on, it's not a perfect world.

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

[47U]

12 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

"repair"

You are correct to put the word in quotes.  That wasn’t a repair you’d find in any approved data I’m familiar with (albeit, no expert)… I’d say what they did was a coverup.  And a pretty good one.

 

[AerostarDriver]

Refocusing, I am looking for shop recommendations in the northeast beyond just airmods which is the only shop I am really familiar with. Any recommendations? 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, AerostarDriver said:

Refocusing, I am looking for shop recommendations in the northeast beyond just airmods which is the only shop I am really familiar with. Any recommendations? 

Isn’t Weber a long time MSC?  They might offer guidance.

Clarence

[MooneyJohn]

I had the same problem with my aircraft. Found a cracked three years after ownership in the leading edge covered with Bondo. I replaced the skin to correct for the damage. Found the original owner in 1966 and he told me a friend borrowed the aircraft and hit a fuel pump and put a dent in it in the early 70s. Aircraft was pain in the late 80s and it was still covered in Bondo. I’m glad I replaced the skin and the plane flies great with no damage. 

[A64Pilot]

My opinion is you need to find a good sheet metal person, whether or not they work in an MSC is irrelevant.

 

[Guest]

If you’re going to replace the skin, this might help.

[carusoam]

If it is a forever plane… a new skin may be worth investigating…

Weber is next on the list for qualified MSCs….in the Mooney neighborhood…

There is probably a good sheet metal shop around here somewhere… in case those two MSCs are not on the preferred list…

Next stop further south is Byron at RPM…

I would be interested in his thoughts about the sheet metal correction…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[hphillips]

On 5/4/2022 at 12:14 AM, AerostarDriver said:

In the ongoing saga of my ownership experience, I discovered a problem as my IA and I were rolling the airplane in to hangar for the annual. We discovered a crack in the paint on the leading edge of the wing which I don't remember being present when the airplane became stranded after the engine quit recently. 

We started inspecting the crack and realized that it was a rather significate crack in the aluminum skin. Looking in the wing from the navlight hole shows that the crack was stop drilled and filled with some sort of filler. After some stripping and sanding we were able to see the extent of the damage.  My IA is concerned that due to placement and access, doing a simple doubler and flush patch is going to be difficult, he is willing to try it but honestly recommends getting the airplane in a ferriable state and getting it to a shop that specializes in sheet metal repair. I would like to try to not have to replace the whole skin but it is possible that may be easier.

I am familiar with Airmods but I am not tremendously familiar with anyone else in the northeast. Any recommendations on shops or alternative repair options?

 

For those keeping track of my saga, this is the wing that Don Maxwell's shop installed on my airplane back in late 2020. When we got the invoice for the wing swap, the airplane that donated the wing had an NTSB report from a gear up, when I brought up the damage history with the folks over at DMax, they responded with "Well it doesn't have corrosion and we inspected it when we installed the lights, control surfaces and gear."

 

That’s unfortunate, looks like a cave and pave repair, from here I would replace the damaged skin and call it a day.

[Jsno]

I have done repairs like this.  Not very difficult for someone with a little experience.  I would repair rather than replace an entire skin.  Use flush rivets and you can for aerodynamic purposes filled the seam with fiberglass putty, repaint and you won't even see it externally.  Much quicker and easier than a full skin.  

 

[hoot777]

Precision Air at Santee Cooper regional. Manning SC probably the best airframe guys around talk to Freddy

[0TreeLemur]

On 5/4/2022 at 1:53 PM, 47U said:

You are correct to put the word in quotes.  That wasn’t a repair you’d find in any approved data I’m familiar with (albeit, no expert)… I’d say what they did was a coverup.  And a pretty good one.

 

A while back I worked with an attorney who called those "scare quotes". 

[Dialed In]

@AerostarDriver what did you decide to do on this repair and how did it turn out?