Sales and Use Tax Nonsense.....

[KLRDMD]

Move to Arizona and never fly to California and live a happy and low tax life 

[warren.huisman]

Check with them. In Michigan you don’t have to pay if you’ve paid the use tax or sales tax in another state - unless the other states tax is less, then you pay the difference.


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[PeteMc]

Just now, bradp said:

Don’t make it easy for them either 

 

That may work if you only go into non-towered fields.  But odds are the state is getting N# from the Airport Ops at all the larger airports or even the tower if the Feds have any kind of info sharing deal with the State (which I wouldn't surprise me). 

And giving it a second thought, even at non-towered fields the FBO may be required to write down you N#, even if you don't give it to them.  So now you're limited to airports with Self-Serve fuel.  

[N201MKTurbo]

9 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

Move to Arizona and never fly to California and live a happy and low tax life 

For now.....

Beware of the Californication of AZ!

[Guest]

While we don’t have “use taxes” that I’m aware of, we do pay 13% harmonized sales taxes on everything aviation related in Ontario other than our insurance which is 8%.

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

It’s been what a week ago when I was made fun of for trying to “hide behind a Montana LLC”

‘It’s been a few years ago, but Fl got real aggressive chasing aircraft for the use tax, and there are a lot of out of State aircraft that spend winters in Fl, and therefore a huge amount of free money

‘If your curious FL law is if your in the State for 90 days,even if your a USCG resgistered boat, you WILL be registered and buy a sticker. I feel sure the non US Yachts are exempt, the foreign flagged vessels that don’t pay US tax.

‘There are legal ways to avoid these problems

 

[A64Pilot]

54 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

While we don’t have “use taxes” that I’m aware of, we do pay 13% harmonized sales taxes on everything aviation related in Ontario other than our insurance which is 8%.

Clarence

It’s been years ago but I flew through Canada and when I got home, I got a bill in the mail

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

It’s been years ago but I flew through Canada and when I got home, I got a bill in the mail

Likely not from a government, but from Nav Canada a private corporation who provide ATC services in Canada.
 

Clarence

[A64Pilot]

It was for ATC services or similar, so yes. 

[GeeBee]

Because you apparently travel to VA frequently, every time you are in the Commonwealth, you or your airplane are subject to detainment unless you clear this thing. A simple letter saying you have checked your records and you have not exceeded the 90 day threshold and in fact have paid tax in another state. Say, if they have a different view, or evidence to the contrary, please present it.

 

[daytonabch04]

2 hours ago, bradp said:

Don’t make it easy for them either 

Block your n number on FlightAware and the other sites 

dont use your tail when purchasing fuel 

don’t use your N when announcing on ctaf. Just color and MM. 

its not perfect but it doesn’t make you low hanging fruit either. 

My city looked at hangar records/addresses from the local county airport. 

[GeeBee]

In GA we have the "Garage sale" or "casual sale" provision. That is, if it is a private party to private party transaction the state does not care.

 

[bradp]

2 hours ago, PeteMc said:

That may work if you only go into non-towered fields.  But odds are the state is getting N# from the Airport Ops at all the larger airports or even the tower if the Feds have any kind of info sharing deal with the State (which I wouldn't surprise me). 

And giving it a second thought, even at non-towered fields the FBO may be required to write down you N#, even if you don't give it to them.  So now you're limited to airports with Self-Serve fuel.  

Exactly doesn’t work at larger airports. But it may help make 91 days 89 days 

[Ragsf15e]

VA seems to have a very efficient tax system.  They came after us a year after we moved out.  Said my wife owed income tax even though we were there on a military move and she’s not a resident.  It took a long time to fight them.

In this case I’d write them a nice letter saying that I checked my records and they indicate that the airplane was in Virginia for less than 90 days.  I’d leave it at that.  Not on you to prove.  Up to them!

[RLCarter]

1 hour ago, daytonabch04 said:

My city looked at hangar records/addresses from the local county airport. 

Our county did the same thing 2 yrs ago, went down and signed an affidavit that it was for personal use only and it all went away, I'm sure it will show back up in a few years and I'll be back down there again

[201Steve]

Virginia is the biggest scam state out there. I am in the heavy haul trucking industry and we often go 300 miles out of the way to avoid their god forsaken state, through TN, KY, etc. I can’t tell you how many independent owner operators I know, just trying to make a living working a rough job, that have gone broke or out of business from overly aggressive tax collection states such as VA. We once received a $29,000 fine for having an axle spacing wrong by 6” on an oversized permit. A benign and unintentional mistake by any examination, 29 effin grand. Virginia ain’t for lovers, it’s for crooks. 

[Tony Starke]

15 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

Virginia is the biggest scam state out there. I am in the heavy haul trucking industry and we often go 300 miles out of the way to avoid their god forsaken state, through TN, KY, etc. I can’t tell you how many independent owner operators I know, just trying to make a living working a rough job, that have gone broke or out of business from overly aggressive tax collection states such as VA. We once received a $29,000 fine for having an axle spacing wrong by 6” on an oversized permit. A benign and unintentional mistake by any examination, 29 effin grand. Virginia ain’t for lovers, it’s for crooks. 

Crooked speed traps too. Fuck Virginia.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Tony Starke

[cliffy]

7 hours ago, steingar said:

I wouldn't do a damn thing unless the letter came certified.  If they try to collect I'd just say "what letter?".

Works for jury duty also (or so I'm told)

  

[carusoam]

Holy cow...

A bit of unease in the crowd when taxes are levied.... falsely charged... or even discussed....

One thing for sure... the states that try to tax airplane owners really don’t know what they are trying to do.... or how to do it... but they sure do know how to be a PIA...

Arizona kept sending me a tax bill... because my Ovation once lived there... a Simple letter explaining the details to their office got things straightened out...

I am going to invite my favorite Mooney Aviation tax guy to join the conversation... @Danb

See if Dan has insight to this state level use tax issue...

Best regards,

-a-

[G-SLOT]

14 hours ago, steingar said:

I wouldn't do a damn thing unless the letter came certified.  If they try to collect I'd just say "what letter?".

Wouldn't their response be: "the letter you posted on a public forum"?

[ArtVandelay]

I wouldn't do a damn thing unless the letter came certified.  If they try to collect I'd just say "what letter?".

Most states also charge interest, I know Florida does and it’s something like 10% if taxes aren’t paid within 30 days. The burden is on you to have paid tax without prompting from the state.
Ignoring them is not a long term solution.
I had same problem with PA, a letter explaining why I wasn’t a resident took care of it.

[NJMac]

12 hours ago, Stetson20 said:

Sending a check to the People's Republic of Michigan this week to pay the sales tax on my newly acquired Rocket.

Before you do that, see if "casual sales" applies to you and allows a case for avoiding sales tax in MI.  I got out of sales tax in OH using that when bought my Mooney and intend to use it again when I purchase my Bonanza.  I even confirmed legally LLCs are allowed to use this exemption too. 

[75_M20F]

They (VA DOA) appear to using flight aware to see who is coming and going to generate revenue.  Maybe try flying VFR into and out of OFP? I have a little experience with VA and this issue. I had been flying VFR without flight following into and out of the state for years with no letter, then once I started filing IFR and I got a similar letter. I had paid the 2% use tax many years ago on my Mooney (as I used to be a resident) so this particular letter I got just wanted me to purchase a VA Department of Aviation permit to be operating into and out of the state at a cost of $5.00 a year.

It is a misdemeanor to operate an unregistered aircraft in Virginia according to the VA DOA. That means they want you to pay them a 2% tax (they will tell you the book value of the airplane if it was not purchased recently) and then you will need to purchase a permit annually to operate into VA.

I have never heard of any enforcement action ever happening to anyone, I believe worst case scenario they would ask you to become current on what you owe should something come to a head with this.

Another point would be if you are not overnighting there in VA. What is defined as a day? 24 hour period? If you only were there a few hours at a time, it could be argued you are not there a day, so you would not be subject to 90 days.

 

[A64Pilot]

Ref the they have to prove you were there etc.

I don’t believe that’s the case for tax, I’m certainly no tax lawyer or expert, but I believe for whatever reason the burden of proof is on you.

I also don’t believe that ignoring it is going to work, tax wise I believe they levy penalties and interest over time, time is not on your side.

If it’s 90 total days in one year as opposed to 90 consecutive days, that may be tough to prove.

I’d bet that a logbook is legal proof, I know it is in the Marine world and bet it is in aviation, it would be my only way of proving where I was.

It’s my belief that States are using ADSB for tax enforcement, they used to walk the ramps and check hanger rentals etc, but flight aware is so easy, you don’t even have to get up from your desk, if your job was to find aircraft that owe tax, wouldn’t you?

Some ADSB transponders have an anonymous mode. if your transmitting 1200, even ATC only sees VFR, not your tail number, then having the FAA not release your tail numbers to outside agencies may help, but it was proved to me that there are private agencies that collect the data anyway, and while I question the legality of that, I’m a nobody, it’s going to take AOPA or similar I think to fight that battle.

‘I think if you had a log book showing that you weren’t there for 90 days that you can beat this, but I am no lawyer.

I got into a argument with Ga about a boat that I kept in Fl and could prove that it was in Fl every day of the year and Ga law said I only owed tax in Ga if it were there for more than 6 months. When shown the proof the Ga tax person she said show me where you paid Fl tax and I won’t charge you Ga tax, Fl doesn’t tax boats so I couldn’t. I knew I could win but I woud have to hire a Lawyer to do so, and that would cost more than the tax, so I ended up paying tax that I didn’t owe.

Edited April 22, 2021 by A64Pilot

[Mooneymite]

 

Virginia aircraft use and tax questions answered"

1.  Can you please tell me how the state of Virginia makes a determination that an aircraft owner is subject to this tax. 

 

If the aircraft was purchased in and/or brought into Virginia for the first time prior to July 1, 2020 for a period exceeding 60 non-consecutive days in any given 12-month period, then this aircraft is required to be registered in Virginia regardless if it is registered in another state.

 

If your aircraft was purchased in and/or brought into Virginia for the first time after July 1, 2020 for period exceeding 90 non-consecutive days in a calendar year then this aircraft is required to be registered in Virginia regardless if it is registered in another state.

 

2.  Are my trips in/out, or over Virginia tracked?  If so, how?  

 

Yes, aircraft activity is monitored by various means.  Our agency has an internal system that tracks the number of flight ops to and from airport facilities in Virginia.  The Department of Aviation also has access to airport records (to name a few as an example; fuel logs, landing records, etc.).  There are also other methods of tracking IFR and VFR flights via the internet such as flightaware.com for example.

 

3.Is this determination based on time "on the ground", time in the air over Virginia, or both?  

 

The number of days in Virginia is based on when an aircraft is not in flight and parked in Virginia.

 

4.  If I park for a week, but do not operate the aircraft except during ingress/egress am I changed the total time on the ground?

 

Yes.

 

5.  Is my aircraft's presence reported by towered airports, public airports, all airports?  Are FBO's required to report all transient aircraft?

 

Yes, the Code of Virginia requires public airports/FBO’s to report all aircraft located at their facility for each calendar year.  Private facilities and heliports also provide this data.

 

Any other information that you can tell me to help me avoid Virginia in the future would be greatly appreciated

 

No, I do not.  Thank you for your inquiry.

 

Best Regards,

Darcy Vassar

Aircraft Registration Program Manager

VIRGINIA DEPARTMENT OF AVIATION

5702 GULFSTREAM RD, RICHMOND, VA, 23250-2422

O. 804.774-4633 | M. 804. 807-3705

darcy.vassar@doav.virginia.gov | www.doav.virginia.gov