Martha Lunken, our region's first lady of flying, is grounded. 'It's like being disemboweled

[JimB]

I'm not really sure what to think of this article... For a 78 year old pilot with 61 years of experience including being a Safety Manager for the FAA for 28 years, what did she think would happen. She had her fun and got caught. It is what it is but I'm not sure I feel sorry for her. I mean if I am still flying at 78, I'll probably go fly under some bridges too but if I get grounded for it, I'm not going to blame anyone but myself and I'm certainly not going to expect anyone to feel sorry for me.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2021/04/18/lunken-airport-faa-martha-jeremiah-morrow-bridge/7089271002/ 

Edited April 20, 2021 by JimB

[steingar]

She flew under a bridge and got caught.  She deserves what she's got coming.  She'll have to pass her private again, maybe that'll keep her out of trouble.

She married into the family the airport was named for.  When her husband stopped flying she divorced him.

 

[Mcstealth]

Great article. 

[Hank]

The willful disregard of the rules, combined with two incidents on the ground (around hangars, one involving another aircraft), is what sunk her. I don't recall the penalty after her 2nd ground incident, but wasn't that when she lost her FAA Safety Rep position?

[MooneyMitch]

“Martha, my dear. You have always been my inspiration”.........except for this little blunder........ bad Martha 

These days Martha, big bruddah is always watching....... drones and all...... darn it! 

[PT20J]

Sure it was a dumb thing to do, but — caught by a drone?  Methinks perhaps there is a bit too much data being collected about us. It would not be difficult at all to design algorithms to mine ADS-B data and look for violations. Don’t forget to maintain 2000 ft lateral separation from obstacles in congested areas, and if you come closer during takeoff or landing be sure you can prove that there was no other way to do it.

Skip

[MooneyMitch]

40 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Methinks perhaps there is a bit too much data being collected about us

Ya think? 

“It’s a new dawn, it’s a new day, it’s a new life” 

Dejavu...... it’s kinda like 1984, all over again.

[ilovecornfields]

Pretty sad that she doesn’t get to fly, but it sounds like she wasn’t making good choices. Executive dysfunction is common in dementia and may precede other symptoms such as memory loss

https://www.verywellhealth.com/executive-functioning-alzheimers-98596

So, someone does something incredibly unsafe and gets caught and you guys think too much surveillance is to blame? How about “don’t do stupid reckless things and you won’t lose your license?” Sounds like the DOT camera potentially saved her life and those of whomever she would have killed next time she did something reckless.

I’ve always considered my ability to fly a plane to be a temporary thing. So far I’ve had about 30 good years but one day it will end and hopefully that will happen without anyone getting hurt.

The fact that she never saw this as a likely outcome of her reckless stunt is a strong argument for her cognitive impairment.

[PT20J]

Oh great @ilovecornfields, now I have something else to worry about  Actually, I think your point is a good one and I hadn't thought of that.

My point was simply that it is difficult to go through life without executing some inadvertent infraction here and there (not just confined to aviation activities), and if we were all closely monitored we'd all probably be in trouble. Obviously, this was a gross infraction and she deserves what she got, but there are a lot of cases where the decision process is less clear cut.

Years ago, when I worked in tech, I never worried much about data collection because I figured that the larger the haystack, the more difficult to find the needle. But a solution to that problem has been found and modern data mining techniques devised to build profiles for targeted advertising from "big" data have become well developed. 

Skip

[PHFlyer08]

I’ve always loved her articles but in this case...what did she think was going to happen?  I was struck by the line about “I’m an aviation legend” or however she put it. I wonder if she thought “I’m Martha Lunken, they won’t do anything to me” and is now surprised that yes, they did do something to her.  

[MooneyMitch]

Remember when the FAA took Bob Hoover's certificate away?  They thought he was too old and posed a danger to others!

The FAA giveth, and the FAA taketh away.

I do hope Ms. Martha gets her cert. back.  I'd hate to see her have to resort to buying and flying a drone only! 

She seems like an inspiration to others [uh, except for the bridge thing... ].

[DXB]

4 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Pretty sad that she doesn’t get to fly, but it sounds like she wasn’t making good choices. Executive dysfunction is common in dementia and may precede other symptoms such as memory loss

My first thought also. She might have been doing stuff like this for decades, but even if that were the case, people normally get less reckless with maturity.  Impulsive, thrill-seeking behavior in the air by elderly pilot who's flown a long time without doing reckless stuff has a neurodegerative etiology until proven otherwise.  Formal cognitive and memory testing may be useful before making her do her PPL again.

Edited April 20, 2021 by DXB

[EricJ]

She's familiar with getting in trouble with the FAA, as it's not the first time she's had credentials revoked.  She's written about it before.

I don't think there's any way to whitewash a conscious decision to fly under a bridge.   This doesn't seem like an inadvertent infraction.   The FAA seems to be consistent about distinctly discerning between inadvertent actions and willful infringement.   If a conscious decision to fly under a bridge is the decision making that's going on, a time out (or perhaps permanent grounding as this may turn out), doesn't seem inappropriate to me.

I'm not worried about the drones, personally, except when they're competing for the same airspace.

 

 

[Tony Starke]

Always eyes watching you and the voice enveloping you. Asleep or awake, indoors or out of doors, in the bath or bed—no escape. Nothing was your own except the few cubic centimeters in your skull.”

[carusoam]

Sounds very Orwellian, Tony.

There is a reason for everything...

I never flew under a bridge...

But, if I decided I was going to... I’d check the price of getting caught...

 

Some excesses cost more than others...  10mph over the limit, 20, 50.... (automotive reference...)

Some are a slap on the wrist, others a fine... some come with annual increase in insurance payments...

 

Was the article intended to bash aging pilots?

Or was it intended to bash Martha?

It kind of sends the general reminder... don’t fly ignoring the rules...  even the famous get caught....

 

Every now and then the American Judicial system uses a popular person as an example... they get a ton of free press this way...

Martha will come out of this in a fine way...

Speaking of dumb things and people named Martha...   Martha Stewart wasn’t the baddest insider trading crook on the planet... but, she did know better,  and she did get caught, smeared publicly, did some time... and spent a ton to unwind the mess she created...

 

So... what we know today...

Don’t fly under bridges...

Don’t sell stock of a company that your friend is the CEO of... based on information he gave you about troubles with the company... that was just il-advised....

 

Early flight lesson...

Don’t do anything that will get your name in the paper...

Once your name is in the paper... seek professional advice...

If you are super famous... it may take a team of PR people...

 

Expect to see a public apology being printed somewhere along the way...  I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have done that... here’s a few dollars to that kids flight charity...

Now, If Martha has a cognitive disability... that would be a real bummer... Age doesn’t treat everybody evenly...

Best regards,

-a-

[EricJ]

This guy seems to have essentially made a living doing this, which included flying under a bridge.   I don't know what the difference is.
 

Edit:   This sez he did all of this in the 1980s before there were restrictions against it:

http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueSO02/Arch91002.html

Edited April 21, 2021 by EricJ

[carusoam]

There are three people that have flown under the arc de triomphe...

trying to find their pics is near impossible...

Much tighter than many bridges...

-a-

 

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, EricJ said:

This guy seems to have essentially made a living doing this, which included flying under a bridge.   I don't know what the difference is.
 

Edit:   This sez he did all of this in the 1980s before there were restrictions against it:

http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueSO02/Arch91002.html

There is no difference except that his activities were more dangerous by far...The Dewey Bridge (RIP 2008) was just a few stories off the water.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shadrach

[Shadrach]

14 hours ago, DXB said:

My first thought also. She might have been doing stuff like this for decades, but even if that were the case, people normally get less reckless with maturity.  Impulsive, thrill-seeking behavior in the air by elderly pilot who's flown a long time without doing reckless stuff has a neurodegerative etiology until proven otherwise.  Formal cognitive and memory testing may be useful before making her do her PPL again.

If I were a betting man my money would be on Martha having done things like this, if not this exact thing before.  We like to say that there are no old and bold pilots but that’s just a saying. I have met many old and bold pilots and I don’t know nearly as many pilots as some in the community. I know of a highly credentialed pilot that flew under an 80’ bridge that spans I70. If I use my fingers to count all of the commercial pilots I know of that have rolled business class turbines (I witnessed none but have no doubts) I need to use both hands. I could go on and on and on...with examples of absolutely illegal, often stupid and sometimes dangerous behavior, the outcome of which resulted in little more than rehashed pilot lounge stories that only come out in certain company. What is bold today may not have been considered so bold 40 years ago. I have enjoyed Martha’s work but she comes from an era that is long gone. The Wild West days of aviation are over and we are all likely better for it. What she did was stupid and illegal even if it required less precision than a typical VFR landing (the bridge she flew under was 20’ higher than the Golden Gate). Does she deserve administrative action? Certainly.  Does she deserve to be revoked? Perhaps.  10 years ago a US senator intentionally landed a C340 on a closed runway with workers in place (literally touched down in front of work area then throttled up, over said work area and landed again). IIRC he did a 709 ride and had his record expunged after 2 years. It’s good to be First Lady but better to hold office...

Edited April 21, 2021 by Shadrach

[GeeBee]

Sad. Very sad. Combined with two other incidents, she has been making some bad choices lately, and given the emphasis on aeronautical decision making, it does bring up questions about her ability to make good decisions. As I play the back nine and the last holes, I'm hoping no one has to tell me when to hang up my spurs. One of my acronyms is flying is FLAP. Finish Like A Professional. Martha should have heeded it. 

 

[BKlott]

I won’t defend what she did in any way, shape or form but I can’t help but notice the disparity between how she has been treated and how motor vehicle operators are treated when they do careless and reckless things with their motor vehicles. I often see drivers running through Stop Signs like they aren’t there, exceeding the speed limit by a wide margin, ignoring Red Lights, tailgating at high speeds, weaving in and out of traffic and making lane changes without signaling. Do they ever receive a letter from a Federal Government or State Government Agency revoking their driving privileges? Of course not. I would argue that their actions are far more likely to result in injury, death and property damage to others than what Martha did.

[steingar]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

Speaking of dumb things and people named Martha...   Martha Stewart wasn’t the baddest insider trading crook on the planet... but, she did know better,  and she did get caught, smeared publicly, did some time... and spent a ton to unwind the mess she created...

Martha Steward went to jail for lying to the cops.  What makes it worse is she didn't have to talk to the cops at all, that's what lawyers are for.

[GeeBee]

Do you really want to reduce pilot privileges to motor vehicle operator privileges?

 

[Tim Jodice]

23 hours ago, MooneyMitch said:

Dejavu...... it’s kinda like 1984, all over again.

I was 4 at the time. What happened in 1984?

[jaylw314]

What kind of enforcement action involves taking the private pilot exam again?  That's the first I've ever heard of such an action?

I recall reading her articles and enjoying them, it'd be sad to think dementia was a contributing factor, but I'd agree with @Shadrach that it's probably not a requirement for something like this to happen.

Flying is not an invisible, unobtrusive, anonymous or private activity.  It is at all times potentially and practically highly visible to the public, and as such, our behavior during (and in some cases outside) that activity needs to take that into account.  Failure to do so makes things worse for ourselves and our peers.

Edited April 21, 2021 by jaylw314