Is it a sin to buy a Cirrus?

[Tim Jodice]

2 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Rode in a  neighbors baron twin the other day. 6 seats roomy 1700# useful load was my biggest envy. Putting along at 170kts but at 25 gallons an hour! That’s twice the gas i use and it’s not even 10% faster. Aaaah but that useful load. 

he must have been running climb like 200+ROP mixture. 

As you can see in the first picture 20GPH LOP gives you about 165TAS

In the second 31-32GPH ROP gives you about 195.

25GPH in a Baron will give you about 185

This is from a small engine(IO-470) Baron I used to own. 

[Seth]

You are not crazy. It's okay to pick an airplane outside of the Mooney Family. Many people move from Cirrus to TBM (more are now moving to SF50) but the TBM is the next step for many high performance piston single owners.

The Cirrus has a larger cabin (some would say more comfortable, some would say not - The pilot seat is less comfortable for me, others like it more). It also has 5 seats. I often transporta  family with three young kids, so that six souls on board a Cirrus as the youngest is still lap age.

The Cirrus has a parachute. Which is huge as it's a reason for some non-flying family members to feel more safe, and frankly, it's an extra arrow in the quiver in case it's a tool ever needed.

The FIKI via TKS systems allow flight into certain icing conditions - it also allows for flights when icing may be a threat but never materializes. Those are flights I wouldn't go for in my Mooney as I don't have icing protection. So that's a big plus if you get a model with FIKI or TKS.

There are downsides as well, they've all been listed.

Personally, I love my Mooney. I think it handles better. And if my family grows, until I decide what I'm doing I'll have access to a 5 seat airplane on those few occasions a year I'll need the extra seat until I get a bigger aircraft.

George Perry loves Mooney's. He owned an M20F and also an M20S. He now is a partner in a Cirrus.

Do what's best for you. PM me and I can communicate more about the pros and cons as I have close to 500 hours now in the SR22, SR22T, and SR20.

-Seth

Edited March 29, 2021 by Seth

[NJMac]

3 hours ago, Wayne Cease said:

They are nice traveling planes. Roomy inside for a single engine 4-seater. Not as efficient as a Mooney.
 

Thanks Wayne.  With 2 car seats and all the kids junk, the romminess is appealing.  

[KLRDMD]

The 'chute is great in a Cirrus, until it isn't. This just happened in Tucson. The 'chute did not deploy properly. Fortunately, both occupants walked away.

https://www.kold.com/2021/03/28/pcsd-responds-plane-crash-landing-near-avra-valley/

[Davidv]

I could be wrong, but I would assume a large percentage of chute pulls are from engine outs. While the Cirrus fleet is bigger than the Mooney R model to present, it feels like there aren’t as many IO-550 engine out incidents in Mooneys.  I have no data to support this claim, but it would be interesting to see if the data existed. 
 

Anyone else have any data/thoughts on this?

[Wayne Cease]

Thanks Wayne.  With 2 car seats and all the kids junk, the romminess is appealing.  

Get a seatbelt extender if the back seats have the 4 point belts. Those are a PITA to belt a car seat. I've done it a few times for Angel Flights. Now I have an extender.



Wayne

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Davidv said:

I could be wrong, but I would assume a large percentage of chute pulls are from engine outs. While the Cirrus fleet is bigger than the Mooney R model to present, it feels like there aren’t as many IO-550 engine out incidents in Mooneys.  I have no data to support this claim, but it would be interesting to see if the data existed. 
 

Anyone else have any data/thoughts on this?

Haven’t there been a number of Acclaims that came to a fiery end.  
 

Clarence

 

[carusoam]

2 hours ago, Davidv said:

I could be wrong, but I would assume a large percentage of chute pulls are from engine outs. While the Cirrus fleet is bigger than the Mooney R model to present, it feels like there aren’t as many IO-550 engine out incidents in Mooneys.  I have no data to support this claim, but it would be interesting to see if the data existed. 
 

Anyone else have any data/thoughts on this?

One of the first engine outs for an M20R was an oil cooler that split open early on in its life...  threw all of its oil overboard...

The Ci with the same engine had about nine of the same issue...

The M20R (#9) landed on a golf course...

Continental probably changed the oil cooler design after that...

 

One of the last engine outs for the Long Body was Mark’s Acclaim...

Still looking for the cause...

There are not a lot of Long body accidents...

Roads can be an unfriendly place to land a plane...

Best regards,

-a-

 

 

[chinoguym20]

Comparing apples to apples (SR22’s and M20 Ultra’s), both are fine aircraft, but you also need to factor in the company behind the product for many reasons.  For my money, I would go with the Cirrus, purely because it’s in current production and you know the company will be around to support.  The jury is still out whether Mooney is still in business, or if it will be for much longer. 

[NJMac]

My wife and I were walking the dogs this evening. I mentioned the second door and she stopped dead in her tracks and asked me if I was being for reals.  She's pretty excited for that and pretty indifferent on the chute. 

Edited March 30, 2021 by NJMac

[carusoam]

21 minutes ago, NJMac said:

My wife and I were walking the dogs this evening. I mentioned the second door and she stopped dead in her tracks and asked me if I was being for reals.  She's pretty excited for that and pretty indifferent on the chute. 

Cool!
 

We’re getting somewhere now!

Both of these Ovation Ultras have two doors up front.

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/mooney/m20u-ovation-ultra/aircraft

Share these with the SIC...

The first one has AC...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

17 minutes ago, NJMac said:

I mentioned the second door and she stopped dead in her tracks and asked me if I was being for reals

Just don’t mention extra useful load, you will get the same sh**y quota as M20E even with an SR22 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Ibra

[NJMac]

28 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Cool!
 

We’re getting somewhere now!

Both of these Ovation Ultras have two doors up front.

 

https://www.controller.com/listings/for-sale/mooney/m20u-ovation-ultra/aircraft

Share these with the SIC...

The first one has AC...

Best regards,

-a-

I really wanted to make an Ovation work.  If we compare same vintage planes, an Ovation and SR22, it's a fair comparison.

I had my docusign for the offer on the cirrus in my inbox and I called Jimmy, actually waited for him to send these images today, for a 2005 fiki Ovation that's coming for sale shortly.  1100smoh, g1000 non waas, 55x.  Asking $259, plus $28amu *if* they can find a waas upgrade.  When you do the math on the engine hours, paint, and avionics the cirrus comes with, I thought it penciled out in favor of the cirrus by a touch from a mathematical equation, not considering other "soft" values I referenced earlier.  

Edited March 30, 2021 by NJMac

[aviatoreb]

11 hours ago, NJMac said:

I really wanted to make an Ovation work.  If we compare same vintage planes, an Ovation and SR22, it's a fair comparison.

I had my docusign for the offer on the cirrus in my inbox and I called Jimmy, actually waited for him to send these images today, for a 2005 fiki Ovation that's coming for sale shortly.  1100smoh, g1000 non waas, 55x.  Asking $259, plus $28amu *if* they can find a waas upgrade.  When you do the math on the engine hours, paint, and avionics the cirrus comes with, I thought it penciled out in favor of the cirrus by a touch from a mathematical equation, not considering other "soft" values I referenced earlier.  

There's no practical reason for most of us to own an airplane.  Most people I know drive around and take airlines when out of range of driving.  Some of us may NEED an airplane and a Mooney is it, but most of us in this tier of airplanes own and fly an airplane because we love it.

I say go with whichever makes your heart go thump thump.  If they both do then go with whichever is most convenient.

[aviatoreb]

39 minutes ago, Ibra said:

Just don’t mention extra useful load, you will get the same sh**y quota as M20E even with an SR22 

For the price of that SR22 quoted, or the Ovation just mentioned - so about 300k. 

Maybe we could buy 6 or 7 M20C's - how much weight can a total of 7 M20C's carry in a formation flight?

[carusoam]

In the mid 250s.... no.

You start looking at what the older O doesn’t have, and the cost to upgrade...

This O is nice...

 

But, what reopened the Mooney conversation was the Ultra...

Sit in an Ultra...  it has the new millennium wow affect...

See how impressed Your SIC is after sitting in an Ultra...

Last thing I would want to do... is put a trio of analog gauges in front of my SIC...

Kind of like having a ragged windlace dangling in front of her...

SICs have expectations, that need to be met...

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

This is what I’m blogging about...

Color screens...  mechanical-analog free...

WAAS... now...

 

sit in it comfortably out on a ramp... 

with both doors open...

No analog gauges anywhere in sight...   

Mechanical instruments are so yesterday...

 

SIC gets exactly what you get, in front of her...

SIC in many relationships around here is OPIC... other person in command...

 

The back-up instruments aren’t a relic of days gone by...

They are a modern, easy to read, centrally mounted, one size fits all, kind of device...

They are purpose built, to help keep the sunny side up, under strenuous conditions... which are highly unlikely to occur...

 

Have a closer look... they look like they belong there... in just the right location...

 

PP thoughts only, not a sales guy...

I last sat in an Ultra at KOSH with Byron...  

Kind of a lasting impression...

Best regards,

-a-

[DonMuncy]

29 minutes ago, TheMartinAlliance said:

Indeed, Mooney has constantly been plagued by a history of financial problems. In Jan 2020, the company laid off all their employees and closed the doors. Mooney's future is still in question...

I do not dispute that Mooney has had a lot of problems, and the future is far from guaranteed, but there has never been a time when all of the employees were laid off. At this time, the company is active and making parts. They are working on trying to start up production.

[hmasing]

18 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

The 'chute is great in a Cirrus, until it isn't. This just happened in Tucson. The 'chute did not deploy properly. Fortunately, both occupants walked away.

https://www.kold.com/2021/03/28/pcsd-responds-plane-crash-landing-near-avra-valley/

I don't see anything to indicate that the chute was even attempted to be deployed in that article.  Perhaps they thought they could set it down on a dirt road - which they did.  Looks like landing gear damage, but otherwise they walked away fine.

[Tim Jodice]

1 hour ago, TheMartinAlliance said:

Yes, I do hope Mooney can build up again.

All I hope for it that they stick around make parts for the existing fleet and be profitable. If the never make airplanes again would be sad but unless they do big changes like a gross weight increase and a parachute they won't sell enough to make money. History proves that. 

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, hmasing said:

I don't see anything to indicate that the chute was even attempted to be deployed in that article.

 

[Danb]

20 hours ago, NJMac said:

My wife and I were walking the dogs this evening. I mentioned the second door and she stopped dead in her tracks and asked me if I was being for reals.  She's pretty excited for that and pretty indifferent on the chute. 

Opposite happened to us, I have an 05 Bravo, we checked out an Ultra, I told her I liked the idea of another door, the salesperson asked her if she was interested she responded I think so, the other door is ugly, he won’t get me in that plane... can’t figure out these ladies.

[Skates97]

21 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

For the price of that SR22 quoted, or the Ovation just mentioned - so about 300k. 

Maybe we could buy 6 or 7 M20C's - how much weight can a total of 7 M20C's carry in a formation flight?

Or maybe just two strapped together? They did it with the P-51 to create the F-82....

[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

Or maybe just two strapped together? They did it with the P-51 to create the F-82....

Why is it called the F-82?  Why isn't it called the P-102?  Or maybe the PP-102?

[Hank]

2 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Is that you in a few decades, Mr. Bicycle Enthusiast? Getting help pedaling around the neighborhood??