Opinions on annuals

[NJMac]

15 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Does anyone know if AGL is friendly to an owner assist? I’d really like to go through it once, even if I didn’t do any wrench swinging it would be valuable. However, very boring if only watching. Probably awkward as well. 
 

 

My annual in 2020 was supposed to be owner assist until my wife decided to come and make it a family vacation.  They were ok with me helping.  Ended up turning a few wrenches after all and enjoyed it a ton. 

[FastTex]

Any of you having luck with @AGL Aviation phones? I have been trying for a few days the three ph#s on their website but nobody answers. I was just able to leave a VM with Lynn.

[Hank]

17 minutes ago, FastTex said:

Any of you having luck with @AGL Aviation phones? I have been trying for a few days the three ph#s on their website but nobody answers. I was just able to leave a VM with Lynn.

I believe they were in the path of the recent winter storm.

[N201MKTurbo]

On 1/4/2021 at 7:08 PM, GeeBee said:

When I hear of 2, 3 weeks, a month of down time, I've wondered if a progressive maintenance schedule might be more suitable than an annual for these airplanes. One that gets every thing needed to be done in one day while doing a quarterly oil change. Also think it might minimize maintenance induced errors due to the smaller work scope.  I think it would only work if your IA was on airport. I welcome any feedback on the idea. 

 

I have an approved progressive inspection plan (AIP) for my mooney. Not only will I never do another annual, but my IA will be perpetually current.

An FAA inspector actually encouraged me to do it.

[takair]

17 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I have an approved progressive inspection plan (AIP) for my mooney. Not only will I never do another annual, but my IA will be perpetually current.

An FAA inspector actually encouraged me to do it.

Had not previously considered this, but it would be beneficial for multiple reasons....and I love the IA currency aspect.  How difficult was the process?  Any tips on how to do this?  I assume your Mooney is part 91?

[N201MKTurbo]

38 minutes ago, takair said:

Had not previously considered this, but it would be beneficial for multiple reasons....and I love the IA currency aspect.  How difficult was the process?  Any tips on how to do this?  I assume your Mooney is part 91?

It wasn't too bad. Rejected first time for typos, second time for revision control, third time was a charm. 
 

I used a Cirrus AIP as a template, plagiarized a bunch of stuff from the Mooney, Garmin and Lycoming maintenance manuals, and sent it off. The FAA inspector was actually very helpful about what I should include and how to structure it.

I could share it if you want to do one. You would need to customize it to your plane, but it would be a lot easier than starting from scratch.

[takair]

33 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It wasn't too bad. Rejected first time for typos, second time for revision control, third time was a charm. 
 

I used a Cirrus AIP as a template, plagiarized a bunch of stuff from the Mooney, Garmin and Lycoming maintenance manuals, and sent it off. The FAA inspector was actually very helpful about what I should include and how to structure it.

I could share it if you want to do one. You would need to customize it to your plane, but it would be a lot easier than starting from scratch.

Thanks Rich!  Sent an IM.

[FastTex]

AGL Aviation seems to have a great reputation in here and I'm trying to call them to schedule my annual. It seems very hard to talk with them, not good in my opinion. I have tried both ph#s found on their website. I have received one call back after multiple attempt, asking to text my tail#, and that's it. This is about one week ago, nothing after that. Do you guys have different phone numbers or contact info? Or maybe they are too busy and I should just go elsewhere?

[ArtVandelay]

AGL Aviation seems to have a great reputation in here and I'm trying to call them to schedule my annual. It seems very hard to talk with them, not good in my opinion. I have tried both ph#s found on their website. I have received one call back after multiple attempt, asking to text my tail#, and that's it. This is about one week ago, nothing after that. Do you guys have different phone numbers or contact info? Or maybe they are too busy and I should just go elsewhere?

As a general rule I have found the small businesses in GA aviation world to suck at basic communication skills. Best results are obtained by showing up in person. No way would I again try to handle it remotely.

[J0nathan225]

They just finished up my annual, prior to that they had a m350 in there and a few stop in, need help cases. Mooney space messaging and messaging Lynn (owner) will get you a response in a few days, in my experience. (I also reached out 2-3months ahead of time to schedule my annual) 

[Amelia]

Exactly this! GSXR is reading my mind. I took my new Mooney to AGL, was very pleased. Great people! But NC is a long state, and the guy who has maintained my Mooneys for years, not a MSC, but very competent, reliable, and newly relocated to 100 yards from my own hangar, gets the nod. He goes through the Mooney books step by step, does meticulous work, and I trust him. So I’ll take a nice week in the NC mountains and see AGL again with complete confidence, from time to time, but there’s much to be said for supporting the (very competent) home team, too.

[carusoam]

Send a message to @AGL Aviation...

In the Covid era, it’s hard to know exactly what is happening, without the ability to stop in...

if you get a cell phone response, asking for a tail number...

I’m pretty sure that is a defense mechanism to tell if you are a robot dialer...

If you are afraid of handing out your tail number, leave your message... any way you are comfortable...

I watched my doctor suffering through the same challenge... having to take every phone call coming in... just in case.

Throw the small business a bone... having your tail number is the first method of keeping contacts straight...  I’m sure we all want that.

holy cow NC is a long state... I’m much closer to the other end... but, that didn’t stop me from bidding fiercely to win the annual they gave away at the last Mooney Summit!  (I didn’t win... but I did set a fair price... )

Welcome to the first world challenges of junk cell phone calls in the Covid era...

Try not to blame the small business man... you will miss out on some of the best Mooney service available...

If you know of a way to kill off robo-dialers...  let me know.   I block everyone that isn’t on my OK list... 

First step... leave a message.

 

Best regards,

-a-

[Amelia]

Re: home field advantage: Don’t know if this applies, exactly, but my favorite right seater was a small-town country doc. He would advise his patients to elect to have their run-of-the-mill surgery at the local small town hospital. The surgeon was outstanding, the nurses knew you, everybody spoke fluent English, and if you ran into problems, the entire team lived less than five minutes away. By contrast, the internationally-famed Cleveland Clinic was well over an hour away. They’d be a great place to have high-end heart or lung surgery, but maybe not your first choice for ordinary gall-bladder or appendix surgery. 
I feel about the same way about Mooney maintenance. The hometown IA is very good, and he is right there. He makes house calls when needed. He works me in, is always available for a curbstone consult. He is conservative and sensible, talks to me in a language I speak. I feel the need to reward that responsiveness when I can, by not bothering him with emergencies and small stuff, and then taking the high-dollar work elsewhere.

[FastTex]

22 hours ago, Amelia said:

Re: home field advantage: Don’t know if this applies, exactly, but my favorite right seater was a small-town country doc. He would advise his patients to elect to have their run-of-the-mill surgery at the local small town hospital. The surgeon was outstanding, the nurses knew you, everybody spoke fluent English, and if you ran into problems, the entire team lived less than five minutes away. By contrast, the internationally-famed Cleveland Clinic was well over an hour away. They’d be a great place to have high-end heart or lung surgery, but maybe not your first choice for ordinary gall-bladder or appendix surgery. 
I feel about the same way about Mooney maintenance. The hometown IA is very good, and he is right there. He makes house calls when needed. He works me in, is always available for a curbstone consult. He is conservative and sensible, talks to me in a language I speak. I feel the need to reward that responsiveness when I can, by not bothering him with emergencies and small stuff, and then taking the high-dollar work elsewhere.

 

On 1/23/2021 at 7:58 AM, Amelia said:

Exactly this! GSXR is reading my mind. I took my new Mooney to AGL, was very pleased. Great people! But NC is a long state, and the guy who has maintained my Mooneys for years, not a MSC, but very competent, reliable, and newly relocated to 100 yards from my own hangar, gets the nod. He goes through the Mooney books step by step, does meticulous work, and I trust him. So I’ll take a nice week in the NC mountains and see AGL again with complete confidence, from time to time, but there’s much to be said for supporting the (very competent) home team, too.

In several years I have owned my Mooney I always had my annual and lots of other work done at the local A&P (including bladders). I even encouraged them to become a MSC. I agree, establishing a relationship is very important, so I did and will continue to provide business to them. However, I think once in a while, it's good to have another shop, especially with high reputation, do the work. It is a safe practice and might catch things that one business didn't see before even if they use the same checklist. No disrespect or lack of trust, just decreasing probabilities of potential issues. I might give Joe Cole a call and see who wants/earns more my business.

 

  

[gsxrpilot]

On 1/23/2021 at 3:43 AM, FastTex said:

AGL Aviation seems to have a great reputation in here and I'm trying to call them to schedule my annual. It seems very hard to talk with them, not good in my opinion. I have tried both ph#s found on their website. I have received one call back after multiple attempt, asking to text my tail#, and that's it. This is about one week ago, nothing after that. Do you guys have different phone numbers or contact info? Or maybe they are too busy and I should just go elsewhere?

No, this is exactly why you want to go to them. Example, there's a shop right here in Denver that has a great reputation with Mooneys. They've got a full office staff and are quick to return calls. The communication is great. And when you get the bill, you realize exactly how they're paying for that large office full of non-mechanics who sit around shuffling papers and answering the phone all day. In fact, the guys in the hangar turning wrenches are a somewhat random bunch of A&P's who happen to be in Denver needing a job at the moment. So if you don't mind paying double what I'm paying for maintenance, and you don't care who actually turns wrenches on your bird, but more about who/how the business is run, you can get good communication and a shop who chases you. I'd rather save the money and do the chasing.

7 hours ago, FastTex said:

I might give Joe Cole a call and see who wants/earns more my business.

Joey Cole is excellent and a very highly respected shop. But this is the wrong way to go about finding a shop.

No shop that you'd want working on your airplane, needs your business. They are all plenty busy and certainly all the good ones have more business than they can really handle. In fact, the good shops regularly turn away customers who tout their "rights" as the customer. They just don't need the hassle.

The way to get the best service at the best price, on the best timeline... is to pick the best shop and then become their best customer. The competition for best customer is fierce. But that's the game. We're not talking about a retail store where it's all about customer service and a race to the bottom on price. You're trying to hire a true craftsman, someone who's attention to detail, skill with the contents of a tool box, and deep type knowledge, vastly outweighs their concern about billing, accounts receivables, or even answering the phone.

[201Steve]

Paul nailed it. It’s really a game that must be played uniquely in order to “win”. Every mechanic I have, for all things, are terrible customer service reps. I am in the trucking business, I can tell you that customer service on the level some people like it is expensive and requires full attention. I am pretty adamant about the fact that I’ll make my deadlines, do it right, and give as much additional info as I am capable, time permitting. If they are over bearing in this regard, I gladly let them know they can put their sword away bc I don’t need them. I know I’m the best in the business and “you’re not that damn special”. Lol. 
 

I can tell you in advance, Cole is the same way. Pisses you off in the beginning, but you get in the rhythm and build a relationship. I bug him at home to pick his brain frequently now. 
 

 

[FastTex]

Yeah, I know I need to play the game. It is just frustrating especially for people with regular jobs.

[ReconMax]

On 1/24/2021 at 11:26 AM, gsxrpilot said:

No shop that you'd want working on your airplane, needs your business. They are all plenty busy and certainly all the good ones have more business than they can really handle. In fact, the good shops regularly turn away customers who tout their "rights" as the customer. They just don't need the hassle.

The way to get the best service at the best price, on the best timeline... is to pick the best shop and then become their best customer. 

I like this. JD & Laura at SWTA are awesome. They're busy with planes form all over. One look into their hangar tells me they don't need my business. I'm trying to be their best customer. 

What kinds of things can you do to be the best customer?

• Be easy going and not demanding.
• Ask to be put on the schedule.
• Pay promptly.

More?

 

[N9405V]

18 minutes ago, ReconMax said:

I like this. JD & Laura at SWTA are awesome. They're busy with planes form all over. One look into their hangar tells me they don't need my business. I'm trying to be their best customer. 

What kinds of things can you do to be the best customer?

• Be easy going and not demanding.
• Ask to be put on the schedule.
• Pay promptly.

More?

 

I'll add to this-

Have your logbooks organized

Ask good questions

I find a bottle of whiskey or wine as a "thank you" when the job is done goes a long way.  I'm not above bribery.

[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, N9405V said:

I'll add to this-

Have your logbooks organized

Ask good questions

I find a bottle of whiskey or wine as a "thank you" when the job is done goes a long way.  I'm not above bribery.

One of the benefits of using JD and Laura at SWTA is that Laura will take over your log books and they will be the most organized logs anyone has ever had.

I just make sure when I'm showing up at the shop first thing in the morning, always have breakfast tacos for the crew.  In addition to all the other stuff.

[gsxrpilot]

7 hours ago, ReconMax said:

I like this. JD & Laura at SWTA are awesome. They're busy with planes form all over. One look into their hangar tells me they don't need my business. I'm trying to be their best customer. 

What kinds of things can you do to be the best customer?

• Be easy going and not demanding.
• Ask to be put on the schedule.
• Pay promptly.

More?

 

Good luck with that  I moved to Denver and I'm not giving up the title of Best Customer at SWTA.

[carusoam]

1) Expect mistakes to happen...

2) Be nice to everyone...

3) Apologize when you find out what the mistake was... 

4) Treat everyone with respect...

5) Treat everyone with the same respect you want to receive...

6) get everything ready to go...

• Logs
• Manuals
• parts... extra fasteners, avionics boxes...
• Squawk list...
• coffee 
• bagels 
• tools

7) Set expectations...  what you are bringing, what you want done, when and how much...

8) Check in after the first day...   see what the surprises are...

9) Don’t forget to put Your contact info everywhere... cell phone number so somebody can leave you a question...

10) just remember... you have lots of questions... they have lots of answers... you will be paying by the hour, when your questions get long or disorganized...

 

11) SWTA is a great organization...

 

12) If you have managed a small group of people at work...  you will find managing your annual to be very similar...

13) Lots of communication... written down.

14) If you have the good fortune to partake in the annual... do it for the experience...

15) Don’t expect to save any money... you will see so many things that you want to take care of... you will have another punch list.   That adds a few hours too...

16) Any upgrades or OHs?  Put them  on the list too...

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic...

Best regards,

-a-