Mooney social media presence?

[MooneyPoor]

Haven’t posted in awhile but maybe sitting left seat in a Mooney again soon.
 

 Anyway to the point. I’ve heard or read all kinds of discussions on why Mooneys aren’t as popular or prevelant as some other BRS carrying craft. I know changes have been needed for awhile and new leadership is moving in but I feel one of the easiest way for a company to advertise these days is through social media. Mooney hasn’t done much with their webpage —see discussion about Mooney Corp—also it seems they have quit Facebook and Instagram. It seems to me an increase in activity, cross media marketing, and social interactions with current Mooney owners posting would increase the public’s curiosity as well as let the public know the company is alive. I mean @PilotFun101 and a couple other Mooney owners out there publishing but the Corp needs to be interacting with these users generating interest to the public.  It’s essentially free to do and save the big advertising cash for a relaunching or something.  
 

And no Chris didn’t put me up to this.  but there are millions of bored people watching YouTube and watching 310 pilot; Baron pilot, and piper something or another generate a lot of interest and free publicity for Their respective brands. 

fm

[carusoam]

Welcome back FM...

Have you seen any other airplane manufacturers supporting web marketing campaigns?

The Panthera has started recently...

The Mooney website is under active reconstruction...

Signs that @Jonny and company are really alive...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

Mooney doesn’t have a new plane to sell so now is not the time to blow your marketing budget on social media folks. Parts will sell with or without a presence. Now if planes start rolling then spending money and time promoting the company makes sense. 

 

-Robert 

[Davidv]

Mooney is currently working on completing some very important projects that will hopefully benefit the majority of current Mooney owners.  Social media is important, but everything has to be prioritized.  Once some of these projects become a reality, I'm sure Mooney will get back to managing their social media presence. 

[sandipsarkar]

Many companies have gone bankrupt because they don't know how to manage social media. Social media is one of the most important tools in brand promotion. In addition to Mooney, other major companies have gone bankrupt for the same reason. For example, Nokia, Polaroid, Kodak, and others. I think you know what I mean. Today there are many ways to promote a brand on social media. For small businesses and bloggers is a suitable platform for buying subscribers, such as https://famoid.com/buy-instagram-followers/ . It would be best to have a team of good marketers and funding for large companies.

Edited December 23, 2022 by sandipsarkar

[Jpravi8tor]

Crowdsourcing seems to be a possibility here, maybe Mooney could find a dedicated site of Mooney enthusiasts and provide financial backing for said website?

[A64Pilot]

I think Social Media is so low on their list of priorities that it’s just not addressed.

I also think they shouldn’t, some people think the world revolves around it, but I think they are a rather loud, vocal minority. I think I’m average for pilotsI have no social media accounts, no facebook, twitter whatever. Most are older and while some embrace social media I think most don’t.

Then there is the fact that except for parts and hopefully custom kits, Mooney doesn’t have anything to sell, so what good would social media do them?

A few that fly do, but they are a minority I think, it’s still uncommon to see go-pro’s attached to aircraft.

I have learned that it seems if you do anything some idiot video’s it and puts it on Youtube though.

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, Jpravi8tor said:

Crowdsourcing seems to be a possibility here, maybe Mooney could find a dedicated site of Mooney enthusiasts and provide financial backing for said website?

They need to put Mooney “influencers” on the payroll to sell their brand. I, for one, would be happy to do it for $10k/month. I’m quite effective at influencing my dog (especially with a treat in my hand). People, not so much but maybe what they really need is a dog mascot like Spuds Mackenzie.

Hopefully they’re still working in completing those “very important projects.”

[ilovecornfields]

2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

I think Social Media is so low on their list of priorities that it’s just not addressed.

‘I also think they shouldn’t, some people think the world revolves around it, but I think they are a rather loud, vocal minority. I think I’m average, I have no social media accounts, no facebook, twitter whatever. 

A few that fly do, but they are a minority I think, it’s still uncommon to see go-pro’s attached to aircraft.

Any Mooneyspace accounts? ;-)

[A64Pilot]

39 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

Any Mooneyspace accounts? ;-)

That’s just the one, and is it really “Social Media”? In the literal definition I guess it is, but I’m primarily here to learn maintenance issues and fixes, and some technical discussions, not for social interactions.

I have been on other forums, I was a Moderator for years on the largest cruising boat website, but I went there initially because many books had been written about what I didn’t know about cruising, I had never sailed a boat before I bought our Island Packet for instance, then became a Moderator as a way of giving back.

I’m also rarely on the C-120/ 140 assn web site, but only rarely, great club with many more resources than are available for a Mooney so I’m not at all knocking them, just a 140 is so simple and has been around for so long it’s pretty much a solved problem.

On edit, but you have to watch forums though, many will convince you that there is a list of must have items, without them you can’t operate safely etc. Yet people have flown for decades without X and there is no statistical data to back up the safety claim, insurence neither require nor gives a discount for it etc. They have a natural tendency to get people to spend lots of money on items and forums have favorite equipment too, so many buy these items largely I believe to be accepted etc.

Nothing I guess wrong with that, that is why so many Women carry brand name hand bags and why Men wear Rolex’s etc.

Just before you start believing you must have X because everybody on the forum has one, sit down and consider what it will cost, whether that will cut down on your flying and how long you may be without your aircraft having it installed.

One of the best pieces of advice I saw on that sailing forum was to cruise for a year before you start buying, then decide what you really have need for. I didn’t heed it as I was working and had plenty of money to buy stuff, so we ended up with way more than we needed equipment wise. But if was a fun few years before the knees gave out, or I would still be out there.

[Pinecone]

Heck, Mooney does not have an active presence here on the main Mooney specific site.  

But I agree with others, they do not need a huge social media presence, at this time.  Their product(s) now are in support of their products from the past.  And we are sort of locked into them.

But they should have some online presence, and keep Mooney owners and enthusiasts informed of what is going on with the company. 

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Heck, Mooney does not have an active presence here on the main Mooney specific site.  

Seems whenever he shows up quite a few beat up on him and start demanding things that are frankly well beyond their means,significant gross weight increases, support for G1000’s, parachutes etc.

For them it’s a no win situation, last I heard he came on announcing a Factory Service Center and pretty much got jumped on with people making accusations, demands etc. seemed most responses were negative.

If every time you go into a room you get beat up, it doesn’t take a Genius to stop opening that door.

If you want their presence here, only post positively, or don’t post. Not saying kiss anyone’s Butt, but stop piling on.

Of course that's just my opinion. 

[ilovecornfields]

14 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Seems whenever he shows up quite a few beat up on him and start demanding things that are frankly well beyond their means,significant gross weight increases, support for G1000’s, parachutes etc.

For them it’s a no win situation, last I heard he came on announcing a Factory Service Center and pretty much got jumped on with people making accusations, demands etc. seemed most responses were negative.

If every time you go into a room you get beat up, it doesn’t take a Genius to stop opening that door.

If you want their presence here, only post positively, or don’t post. Not saying kiss anyone’s Butt, but stop piling on.

Of course that's just my opinion. 

I think most of the things people were asking him about are things he had said were “coming soon” and we were hoping to get updates on the progress. Not that it’s ok to be an a-hole but sometimes part of being a leader is having those uncomfortable conversations and dealing with the “customer” when reality has failed to meet expectations. Ghosting your clients doesn’t really provide a lot of confidence.

I’ve walked into plenty of rooms where I knew the people I was about to talk to were not happy but I did it anyway because it was my job and the right thing to do.

I was excited about the factory service center. If I lived in Texas I would use them.

[A64Pilot]

Best answer I can give as an Ex aircraft manufacturer on things coming soon is the FAA has a vote in that.

Its not real recent but even back in 2003 if you wanted to get anything done with the FAA you did it by hiring DER’s, where the FAA used to be the ones who did the work, but for many reasons the FAA does less and less now, especially for GA aircraft. They are still the Approving authority, but more and more gaining approval, means shelling out considerable money in DER’s. The FAA still does Engineering work, but claims huge backlogs and anything you try to get done goes into the Que as they call it and that Que may be a year or two long. So you finally get through the Que and an FAA Engineer finally is assigned to your project so it gets done right? Usually not the FAA has questions, you answer them, but your project is placed back in the Que, but you get the original Engineer right?, no unfortunately you don’t and to make matters worse you don’t even get your local guys, you may be in Ga where as you have been manufacturing for Decades the ACO Engineers are intimately familiar with your aircraft, but your project goes to Chicago this time, who has never heard of your aircraft and the next round of question show that lack of knowledge and they may start quoting FAR 23, but your a CAR 3 aircraft or other totally irrelevant issues.

It didn’t use to be that  way, the FAA used to be full of Engineer's, but now they seem to be full of Management, and you would be surprised at how often the person in charge has nearly zero aircraft knowledge. 

In other words how quickly you can get things done with the FAA is directly proportional to the $$$ you have to spend.

Give Mooney a Million or so and you can get that gross weight increase next year I bet.

So when did things change? I think it was the ValueJet accident in 1996. See before that accident the FAA’s mission statement if you will was to promote and regulate aviation, apparently Congress agreed with the FAA’s assertion that you can’t do both, and now the FAA had no responsibility to promote aviation, only to regulate it. So as regulators only they get Management heavy and what used to be an Engineer heavy group no longer is, Wanna bet NASA is the same way although I’ve never worked with them.

Plus when you work with them it’s not hard at all when you get towards the top that they have the opinion that they exist to regulate the airline industry as that serves the public, General Aviation they had just as soon get shed of it like they did promoting aviation.

What that means is if you’re an Aircraft manufacturer that the FAA is no longer here to help, but only here to regulate. You know what answer is easiest and safest as in you won’t get in trouble for it? No

[PT20J]

29 minutes ago, ilovecornfields said:

I think most of the things people were asking him about are things he had said were “coming soon” and we were hoping to get updates on the progress. Not that it’s ok to be an a-hole but sometimes part of being a leader is having those uncomfortable conversations and dealing with the “customer” when reality has failed to meet expectations. Ghosting your clients doesn’t really provide a lot of confidence.

I’ve walked into plenty of rooms where I knew the people I was about to talk to were not happy but I did it anyway because it was my job and the right thing to do.

I was excited about the factory service center. If I lived in Texas I would use them.

I think the point is that if there were good news, he would be providing it.

Having been in a similar situation trying to turn around a much smaller company, I learned that sometimes it is better to stay quiet. Customers want a positive message, but when you try to be positive and things don’t work out, they turn your words against you. When things are tough, sometimes talking just digs a deeper hole.

I thought Jonny was very honest and forthcoming at the last MooneyMax. The product is not competitive at current manufacturing costs, it is very difficult to attract investors due not insignificantly to Mooney’s long history of successive financial failure, and there is some overhang left by the previous owners. He’s trying to keep a pulse going and he was clear that making payroll is a higher priority than no back springs (or whatever).

Let’s just hope he figures out a way to cobble out a future from the rubble.

Skip

[Pinecone]

As A64Pilot says, the out is, blame it on the FAA.

But even if don't have great news, it is good PR to occasionally say SOMETHING.

[exM20K]

Social media and "influencers" like Matt G and Baron Pilot helped Textron deliver a total of 0 Bonanzas and 0 Barons in 2021.

There are better things for Mooney's management team to be focusing their time and attention on while they figure out how to make a viable parts and support company.

Diamond has made some efforts in social media (youtube is the only one i've seen as I don't hang out on facespace) with a camera-friendly delivery pilot.  But the company has a product for which demand well exceeds their ability to produce, so, again, I doubt that even in the case of a successful manufacturer, social media does much more than help owners feel validated in their choice of plane.

-dan

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

4 minutes ago, exM20K said:

 

Diamond has made some efforts in social media (youtube is the only one i've seen as I don't hang out on facespace) with a camera-friendly delivery pilot.  But the company has a product for which demand well exceeds their ability to produce, so, again, I doubt that even in the case of a successful manufacturer, social media does much more than help owners feel validated in their choice of plane.

-dan

 

Diamond is a walking talking massive wasted opportunity.

[exM20K]

17 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Diamond is a walking talking massive wasted opportunity.

perhaps, but the management have been there before - 400 planes in 2007 dwindled to <150 for most of the 2011-2018 period.  Maybe this boom goes on forever, but.... a tree doesn't grow to the sky.

 

-dan

 

[toto]

1 hour ago, exM20K said:

Social media and "influencers" like Matt G and Baron Pilot helped Textron deliver a total of 0 Bonanzas and 0 Barons in 2021.

It does seem possible that the YouTubers have driven interest in the used Beech market, which is ultimately good for Textron and their dealer/support network.

As long as these airplanes are 1-2MM, there’s going to be a limited market for new ones. 
 

[chriscalandro]

Maybe there some other unobtainable airworthiness items that Mooney can work with the FAA on to insure the blockage of owner assisted parts, speeding up the demise of the existing fleet. 
 

then you will HAVE to buy a new Mooney. 
 

Edited December 23, 2022 by chriscalandro

[rbp]

you can check the wayback machine for the changes that have taken place on the website https://web.archive.org/web/changes/mooney.com

 

[hammdo]

Probably Mooneys options are having parts for the existing fleet and home built kits. I can’t see them getting back into the market with the rollcage/hand built aircraft like the past. An entry level kit with Johnson bar would be cool. I would think the M10s could be a decent start for kits… Fast build option etc. 

OPP should not be a worry for Mooney, the old fleet doesn’t appear to be a primary concern since the factory suggest seeing MSCs with vintage experience for service anyway.

I’m sure they’d make more $ with the Js on up for service and parts - if they can still get/make them. I thought I read where Mooney may not have all the tooling for the older/vintage aircraft anyway. 
 

Just random thoughts…

-Don

[glbtrottr]

Ugh.

I was out to the factory many times and sometimes weeks at a time. Genuinely nice folk.

Everyone filed in first thing in the morning. Everyone took their breaks religiously and extended them a little. Come closing time, the ant farm was emptied. No startup mentality, no way to run multiple shifts, and no market to pay for the increased productivity.

It remained that way through a number of different owners. Frankly part of me wondered if it wasn’t a shell for people to launder money. Chinese money, Australian money, because it certainly wasn’t about *making-* money.

Mooney folk always seemed to look at Cirrus with envy and disdain. Cirrus is a marketing machine, and their planes show it/ nicely appointed interiors, no retractable gear complexities, a parachute, blah blah. When mooney was only selling a 10th or 15th of that volume, it’s hard to keep the folks fed.

When were they big? When the J was sold. Fast, inexpensive high performance 4 banger airplanes. They will never return to the glory days.

Could they do it again?

They went through the numbers and saving a few grand on the 4 banger versus 6 wouldn’t appreciably reduce the cost of sales.

A completely different small trainer? Sure - but Mooneys aren’t built for fast production and time is money. Then there’s certification time and expense.

Military? Tigger was a failure.

Parts? Many molds were sold for scrap lead to Mexico, more than once. Too bad LASAR or Maxwell didn’t pick up a bunch of the stuff (I don’t think) but hindsight is 20/20.

STC’s for upgrading the existing fleet? Awesome and selfish idea but the fleet isn’t that large.

And you guys want social media???

I don’t envy Johnny. I’d have loved to help pro bono once, but the culture has its challenges. I dread the idea of calling the company for parts I need…hopefully good things will happen.

[A64Pilot]

Most aircraft manufacturers eventually shift to production of the most expensive models, because profit margin is higher.

The OEM price difference between a Lycoming IO-360 and a Conti IO-550 is only a small fraction of the cost difference in the two models of aircraft.

But this has a tendency to also significantly decrease number of aircraft they can sell, which pushes the required profit per airframe even higher to break even, eventually you price yourself out of the market, it’s a catch 22.

Its not just aircraft, I had an Island Packer sailboat, a very well built, well respected sail boat, IP kept making better, fancier, more expensive sailboats, selling fewer each year until the eventually priced themselves out of the market.

‘But also contrast that to the fact that people’s tastes have changed, people spend most of their disposable income on the biggest house they can buy and Automobiles that have gotten ridiculously expensive, but people keep buying luxury SUV’s. 

1924 a Model T cost $264 in 2022 dollars that’s $4,300.

Average car sold for $4,054 in 1973  that’s $27,202 in 2022 dollars.

Average new car sales price has topped $48,000 now, headed for $50,000 soon

Year I was born 1958 average house cost $12,000, that’s $123,000 today

Average price of a house in 2022 is $348,000

People can’t afford airplanes and boats etc anymore after the house and luxury SUV payment there isn’t enough money to do so.

Even as I’m sure Cirrus is doing well, compared to the 70’s their production rate is abysmal, then contrast that to the fact that there are twice as many people now as then, and you see just how few they actually sell compared to the hey day of GA.