Sadly I will have to wait

[atrosa]

I'm still a student pilot who wants to own his own plane.  It appears that insurance costs of 4000 per year isn't the best way to accomplish my mission.  I think I will be looking at a piper 140 which will be about 1500 per year insurance.  Once I get a couple hundred hours under my belt, then Mooney you will be mine, you hear me... all MINE.... Whaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaa.

 

[bonal]

I know this will have some opponents but you might consider just getting liability coverage for your first 100 hours. That's what I did and coverage was only 900 per year. Once I hit 100 hours I added comprehensive and the costs only went to about 1200 hundred for 35000 hull which I have increased as I have accumulated hours in type. It doesn't cost anything to inquire 

best of luck

[atrosa]

Good advise.  I'm not too concerned on the hull of whatever I buy because I'm not spending 100K.  I don't mind self insuring.  The part that I really want coverage for is if I bump a Vision jet on the ground.

[Andy95W]

18 minutes ago, atrosa said:

I'm still a student pilot who wants to own his own plane.  It appears that insurance costs of 4000 per year isn't the best way to accomplish my mission.  I think I will be looking at a piper 140 which will be about 1500 per year insurance.  Once I get a couple hundred hours under my belt, then Mooney you will be mine, you hear me... all MINE.... Whaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaa.

 

If you just consider the sales/use tax of buying 2 airplanes instead of only 1, that might convince you.  The self insurance route would save money on both.

[MIm20c]

3 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

If you just consider the sales/use tax of buying 2 airplanes instead of only 1, that might convince you.  The self insurance route would save money on both.

Not just that but the first year of ownership can be expensive as you work out the bugs (true for any type of aircraft). 

[EricJ]

37 minutes ago, atrosa said:

I'm still a student pilot who wants to own his own plane.  It appears that insurance costs of 4000 per year isn't the best way to accomplish my mission.  I think I will be looking at a piper 140 which will be about 1500 per year insurance.  Once I get a couple hundred hours under my belt, then Mooney you will be mine, you hear me... all MINE.... Whaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaa.

 

That's not a bad plan.    Don't exclude the possibility of something a little more capable, though, like a PA-160 or a PA-180 or whatever might pop up that better fits your mission and budget.

That said, somebody at Deer Valley (DVT), where I keep my airplane, got a Cessna 150 and flies that thing something like seven hours a day.   I see them on flightradar24 ALL THE TIME, usually going back and forth from here to Yuma and diverting along the way to apparently go see whatever interesting sights that might pop up.   Day, night, whatever.   Just cross country all over the freakin' state all day every day.    I've no idea what they're building time for, but they're racking it up quick and cheap in that thing.

So, yeah, cheap airplanes ftw. 

 

[atrosa]

13 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

If you just consider the sales/use tax of buying 2 airplanes instead of only 1, that might convince you.  The self insurance route would save money on both.

I have a place in NH, what is the Sales tax you speak of    just kidding the plane will be in CT for the first 3 years, so 30K x 7% =  2,100. As long as I don't knock out a couple hundred hours in year one I should recover the sales tax in the following year.  

That is a good point though, I think the plan will now be the 1st plane in CT and the 2nd forever plane in NH.  

[dzeleski]

Not to be that guy to ruin the party but if $4,000 makes or breaks you buying a plane its probably not a good idea to buy a plane. One bad annual could easily double or triple that.

[Nick Pilotte]

11 minutes ago, dzeleski said:

Not to be that guy to ruin the party but if $4,000 makes or breaks you buying a plane its probably not a good idea to buy a plane. One bad annual could easily double or triple that.

Yeah, I'm far from the expert here, but in shopping for a plane, I'm budgeting $25k all in for the year on top of the purchase price.  That's hangar, insurance, fuel, annual, and the incidentals like wash supplies, new tires, air sick bags for my daughter, and the bobble head hula girl for the glareshield.  OP, first year insurance is always going to be brutal if you have minimal time in type.  Find a good broker (@parker_woodruff)  , discuss options with them.  You may find that you can swing things, but definitely do NOT overextend yourself on a plane purchase, as just like a boat, you may find yourself injecting significant cash infusions into it.  

[ArtVandelay]

Sometimes it can be difficult to get the required hours necessary to lower your insurance premium the next year because of first year maintenance issues. Between maintenance and upgrades my plane was grounded for 3 months in the first year.

[MikeOH]

2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Sometimes it can be difficult to get the required hours necessary to lower your insurance premium the next year because of first year maintenance issues. Between maintenance and upgrades my plane was grounded for 3 months in the first year.

Solution: Buy a plane that has been flown 100 hours/year for the last couple of years.  The airworthiness bugs have been worked out.

Upgrades are your own fault

Edited April 24, 2020 by MikeOH

[carusoam]

Keep in mind 4amu sounds pretty high... even for your first year...

I would have expected 3amu settling down towards 2amu in the following years...

It helps to have TT training, an IR, and lots of hours...

Bumping into things has happened... don’t be that guy.

You will not only ruin that guy’s plane, but yours won’t look very good either...

The people inside the plane and out are the expensive parts... make sure they are covered...

Did you get an actual quote for that yet?

Sounds like you told them you want to learn how to fly in your plane...  yes, that is going to be expensive...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

14 hours ago, EricJ said:

 Just cross country all over the freakin' state all day every day.    I've no idea what they're building time for, but they're racking it up quick and cheap in that thing.

It is called "buy it and fly it like you STOL it", the easy way to clock 200h/year and cheapest way to learn about bending metal/wood 
That could work with PA28-140 but there are other better aircraft? Mooney, may need more respect and wiser pilots 

Edited April 24, 2020 by Ibra

[Brian E.]

15 hours ago, atrosa said:

I'm still a student pilot who wants to own his own plane.  It appears that insurance costs of 4000 per year isn't the best way to accomplish my mission.  I think I will be looking at a piper 140 which will be about 1500 per year insurance.  Once I get a couple hundred hours under my belt, then Mooney you will be mine, you hear me... all MINE.... Whaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaaaaaaa.

 

Give @Parker_Woodruff a call.  Although I didn't buy until I had my PPL my first year as a Mooney owner was just over $2k with only 50 hrs in hand.  Next year was much better...

 

Good luck and don't settle or buy twice when buying once would have worked.

[Paul_Havelka]

Parker can get you get set up but just be warned that with everything going on in the past year and the trend for insurance that it is on the rise a little bit.

[M20F-1968]

I obtained by private license in 1985 and my IFR certificate in 1989.  In retrospect, there was quite alot I did not know about flying an airplane back then that was simply experience based.  There is a reason that trainers were built.  They are much more forgiving.  I would say gat your PPL first, build about 100 hours while working on your IFR and then decide.

Not to mention, the insurance costs, tie down, maintenance and unexpected maintenance and other fixed costs will likely represent the bulk of what you would spend on rent.

As a newly minted Private Pilot, I would look at airplanes a deciding what I might buy.  in 1988 I put a deposit on a Piper Arrow.  It looked pristine from the outside, but the prebuy revealed corrosion.  I walked away.  Good thing I did not buy it as I went to medical school two years later.

I got my PPL at about 45 hours, then at about 55 hrs started working on my IFR certificate.  Almost all my time from 55 - 125 hours were spent in a Grumman Tiger flying with its CFII owner, in Oregon in actual conditions.  That time was invaluable.  

With a PPL and IFR rating you will look at what you want in a different light.  With some experience, you will also be able to manage the responsibilities of ownership better as well.  Owning an airplane, is a learning curve, and owning a complex airplane is still a more extended learning curve.  Flying a complex airplane as a student gives you more opportunity to get into trouble.  Without good control and understanding of the complexities and subtleties of a Mooney, it can bite back.   As a student you do not know what you do not know.  With experience a Mooney is a fun and predictable airplane to fly, but again recognizing what I did not know as a 40 hour pilot, and what one should know about flying when flying a complex airplane, I would recommend you use the best tools for your current mission, which would be a traditional trainer.

John Breda

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

17 hours ago, atrosa said:

I'm still a student pilot who wants to own his own plane.  It appears that insurance costs of 4000 per year isn't the best way to accomplish my mission.  I think I will be looking at a piper 140 which will be about 1500 per year insurance.

 

You could always rent to knock out the private cert and be ready to go hunt down a nice Mooney.  I wouldn't own 2 airplanes in such rapid succession unless the deal was right...Switching costs money.

[Matt_AZ]

I bought my Mooney with 14 hours total time. I thought it would help me get my PPL faster by owning & training in my own plane. I convinced my wife it would be cheaper so she was on board. 

It took me longer using my own plane than had I rented. It was more expensive using my own plane.Things leak, stuff deflates, random things stop working.

Airplane ownership is a whole other learning experience on its own. I’m glad I went through the process now that it’s done but if I were to go through it again, I’d get my PPL first then take my time finding the right airplane.

[Parker_Woodruff]

42 minutes ago, Matt_AZ said:

I bought my Mooney with 14 hours total time. I thought it would help me get my PPL faster by owning & training in my own plane. I convinced my wife it would be cheaper so she was on board. 

It took me longer using my own plane than had I rented. It was more expensive using my own plane.Things leak, stuff deflates, random things stop working.

Airplane ownership is a whole other learning experience on its own. I’m glad I went through the process now that it’s done but if I were to go through it again, I’d get my PPL first then take my time finding the right airplane.

Matt, you are exactly right.  Get your private with a good school that has a few well maintained airplanes.  Get your private.  Get the Mooney.  Do the transition training, fly it a ton, get an oil change and have the A&P give it a good look-over they've got the cowling off.  Then go on and get the IR.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Matt, you are exactly right.  Get your private with a good school that has a few well maintained airplanes.  Get your private.  Get the Mooney.  Do the transition training, fly it a ton, get an oil change and have the A&P give it a good look-over they've got the cowling off.  Then go on and get the IR.

That's what I did. Around Student XC time, I started looking. Wrote the check 3 months later, just after checkride. Flew for three years (was supposed to be one year) to learn the plane before starting Instrument work. But I was in grad school at night in the interim, not sure I could have done both together. 

[carusoam]

Now...

If I got this right...

(1) If you start out looking at brand P... you end up having to go to med school... just to end up with a decent Mooney...

(2) Getting a decent Mooney is just a starting place... it doesn’t become a forever-plane on its own...

(3) Once you finish med school... whatever Mooney you have... slowly plods along the path to forever-plane status...

(4) This applies to all Mooneys... C, F, O... doesn’t matter.

(5) Many High performance people own Mooneys...    what they do with them is often amazing...

(6) Don’t be disappointed by having to wait... I thought that too...

(7) Getting prepared actually takes time... so... don’t wait... get started...

(8) put a plan together... time goes buy... whether you are getting ready or not...

(9) when the time comes... have all your steps completed... be ready!

(10) The future is hard to see... or hard to see, the future is... but it gets here faster than you can believe...

(11) worse than having too little airplane... is having too much airplane...

(12) Some Mooneys are like really big shoes... you have to grow into them...it doesn’t happen over night... 

PP observations of a decade around MS...  

PP thoughts only... not a futurist...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

9 hours ago, carusoam said:

Now...

If I got this right...

(1) If you start out looking at brand P... you end up having to go to med school... just to end up with a decent Mooney...

(2) Getting a decent Mooney is just a starting place... it doesn’t become a forever-plane on its own...

(3) Once you finish med school... whatever Mooney you have... slowly plods along the path to forever-plane status...

(4) This applies to all Mooneys... C, F, O... doesn’t matter.

(5) Many High performance people own Mooneys...    what they do with them is often amazing...

(6) Don’t be disappointed by having to wait... I thought that too...

(7) Getting prepared actually takes time... so... don’t wait... get started...

(8) put a plan together... time goes buy... whether you are getting ready or not...

(9) when the time comes... have all your steps completed... be ready!

(10) The future is hard to see... or hard to see, the future is... but it gets here faster than you can believe...

(11) worse than having too little airplane... is having too much airplane...

(12) Some Mooneys are like really big shoes... you have to grow into them...it doesn’t happen over night... 

PP observations of a decade around MS...  

PP thoughts only... not a futurist...

Best regards,

-a-

Note to @atrosa, these are also the Dean's observations from two decades of Mooney ownership, split now pretty evenly between C and O models.

Know that finding, inspecting, purchasing and completing insurance-mandated transition training takes time. Go ahead and look while you fly school beaters and progress toward your PPL. Plane shopping was a distraction for me, and I decided at one point that I needed to stop, lower my head and concentrate on finishing up, hoping that no one bought the fine local plane I had stumbled onto.

Turned out two months later when I had gone from Student XC to checkride that no one had, so I did. The plane then rolled into annual, a great learning experience for me (owner assisted), then it was 15 hours dual including 5 hours real or simulated IMC (we did some of both) using the insurance company's preferred CFII, or 15 hours dual plus 10 hours solo if using someone else. Mooneys are fine traveling machines that will expose you to more weather than a Skyhawk or Cherokee, because they go so much faster, even my little C.

Tl;dr--plane shop while finishing your PPL. Buy a Mooney when you find a good one. You will need more training then anyway.

[Mufflerbearing]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

 

Tl;dr--plane shop while finishing your PPL. Buy a Mooney when you find a good one. You will need more training then anyway.

Searching for the right plane for you will take time.  The chase often times is more fun than the catch.  During the search, you will find what you want and don't want in a plane.  You want to know what you want so if that very elusive plane does show up, you know it and can be prepared to buy it.  Also, during the search, you may find the right motivation to finish your PPL.  A Mooney is a lofty goal, but certainly in reach.  I found my plane during training and took my PPL test in my Mooney.  That was super cool.

[thinwing]

I guess in 1981 I was an idiot.Paid 3500 for a Stinson with engine on the bench in pieces.Did not insure at all...based it at an AG strip in a shade hanger for 50 bucks a month.Flew to Mexico and most of the West...sold it for 12 K after flying it for 400 hrs

[takair]

On 4/23/2020 at 5:11 PM, atrosa said:

I have a place in NH, what is the Sales tax you speak of    just kidding the plane will be in CT for the first 3 years, so 30K x 7% =  2,100. As long as I don't knock out a couple hundred hours in year one I should recover the sales tax in the following year.  

That is a good point though, I think the plan will now be the 1st plane in CT and the 2nd forever plane in NH.  

Where are you flying out of?  I’m out of OXC and BDR.  Lived in NH for a number of years too....PSM and MHT.