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Dale Jr crash 0A9

Bartman

By Bartman
in General Mooney Talk

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Bartman Mentor

Bartman

Posted
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Dale Earnhardt Jr just crashed at Elizabethton about 3 hours after we landed. 
We came in on runway 24 which basically you fly in the valley, turn the base leg over the hill and then turn final. When we turned final we caught a tailwind out of nowhere and I actually landed about half way. Based on my limited information and knowledge of the area I would say that’s what happened to them. Reports are he, wife, kids are OK and that all I know.

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Austintatious
Austintatious

There are a lot of factors, but I would hope 4500 feet would be plenty for a citation... I regularly land a G650 on 4700 feet!   I am glad they all made it out ok....   Overruns on landings

GeeBee
GeeBee

One of the things I used to emphasize when teaching in jets is touching down on the mark, and getting the speed broke down to 80 knots quickly. It is essential in all operations and especially short o

Hank
Hank

How did the discussion morph into icy runways? There ain't no ice on the ground anywhere in Tennessee in August, unless someone knocked over a cooler . . . .

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carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted

News travels fast on MS...

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/dale-earnhardt-jr-tennessee-plane-crash-nascar

quote from the story... I can confirm Dale, Amy & Isla along with his two pilots were involved in a crash in Bristol TN this afternoon. Everyone is safe and has been taken to the hospital for further evaluation. We have no further information at this time. Thank you for your understanding,” Kelley Earnhardt wrote in a tweet. Amy is Dale's wife, and Isla is their 1-year-old daughter.

 

pic included burning plane...

Best regards,

-a-

Bartman Mentor

Bartman

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According to reports everyone is safe and uninjured and that is the main thing. Cessna Citation destroyed in the post crash fire. Yes I should have said they ran off the end of the runway, but what I hastily posted is a copy of a txt I sent to someone and I didn’t have time to fix it on the road. Anyway no injuries and local police, EMS and fire departments did their jobs well. 

AWOS reported winds as light and variable as we approached, but this is an airport surrounded by mountains and you gotta be on your game and expect the unexpected winds and downdrafts. When we turned final I said to my wife we have a tailwind. I even said to her we may need to go around but with just a little slip we settled down and landed about half way. That’s the farthest we ever touched down at this airport, but we were poised for the precautionary go-around but was not necessary. 

Bartman Mentor

Bartman

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The reason we flew in today was to reposition the airplane to go to DTS tomorrow morning. Airport is reported as open and even though my airplane is airworthy and all, I still don’t relish the thought of going there with two alphabet agencies on the grounds. 

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

I heard he was flying in formation in the Citation Caravan.......or was that with a Cessna Caravan when they touched the runway.  Only those who know aren’t saying.

Clarence

 

Mooneymite Grand Master

Mooneymite

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

4500 is not a tremendous amount of runway for a Soveriegn.

It was a Latitude, wasn't it?  Not a Sovereign.

Shadrach Grand Master

Shadrach

Posted
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56 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

It was a Latitude, wasn't it?  Not a Sovereign.

You’re right. Media report I read said 680 but a little digging shows it was a 680A. Seems on the tight side either way.  More so on takeoff but if they landed 24 the also had a 429’ displaced threshold. Doesn’t seem like a lot of margin for a passenger flight but you’d know better than I.

Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

Not to speculate....but is/was dale the pilot?  The nascar guys have a poor record of safety when the driver is also a pilot.

The news report above said that Dale, his wife, daughter and both pilots were taken to the hospital. So it appears he was riding in the back.

aviatoreb Grand Master

aviatoreb

Posted
Posted

Did I read right that he had two pro pilots at the helm? I am presuming they are mostly uninjured too?  It will be interesting to hear what happened.

Austintatious Experienced

Austintatious

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Shadrach said:

4500 is not a tremendous amount of runway for a Soveriegn.

There are a lot of factors, but I would hope 4500 feet would be plenty for a citation... I regularly land a G650 on 4700 feet!

 

I am glad they all made it out ok....   Overruns on landings are quite common, especially in entry level jets.  Here's the deal... Corporate pilots make most of their landings on long runways... The strive to grease the aircraft onto the runway to impress the boss and then use light braking to make things smooth.  Furthermore they slack on speed control or add a few more knots above Vref for a perceived added safety margin.  Then inevitably, they end up going into a short field.  Their muscle memory is working against them.   The numbers say they can stop, but the numbers are based on MAX EFFORT... They come in, flair and float, touch down and begin braking lightly... pretty soon they see the end of the runway coming up fast and even with full brake application they cannot stop it.

Throw in another factor like an unexpected tailwind or a wet / slippery runway and it is a prime situation for an accident.

When I was instructing and checking at a 142 school I dealt with this constantly.  The FAA became so sick of overrun accidents that they mandated an acceptable touchdown area for checking, since it had not been specified previously.  It was a real issue trying to get pilots to actually touch down inside the box. PRO pilots flying for 91K and 135 ops.

 

When I went back to flying I have abandoned the idea of greasing the aircraft onto the runway and using light brakes, even on the long ones since we go into a lot of short fields and I want to stay sharp in both getting it on the ground and slowing rapidly.  It also conditions the passengers to that sort of landing.

Edited by Austintatious
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David_H Rising Star

David_H

Posted
Posted
18 hours ago, Bartman said:

AWOS reported winds as light and variable as we approached, but this is an airport surrounded by mountains and you gotta be on your game and expect the unexpected winds and downdrafts.

The surrounding terrain at 0A9 can make a seemingly normal approach (or departure) challenging.

Mark89114 Experienced

Mark89114

Posted
Posted

Did some quick and dirty research and got typical internet sales and marketing nonsense, found numbers from 2200 to 3600 feet for required landing distance, no idea on weights, temps, etc.  Back when I was flying a Hawker 800 professionally we weren't allowed to do anything less that 4500 without getting permission.  If you read the performance charts that number could be ridiculously low, seems to me like 2500 feet, obviously that was max effort, standing on the brakes.  I never had to do anything that dramatic but I am sure it would shake and rattle everything loose.  

As someone else mentioned carrying extra speed over the fence is the biggest user of runway.  I flew with one guy, supposedly more experienced that floated a thousand feet every time.  He was a moron, one time we used 4500 feet in a Citation 500 series which is easy to fly.  You would be surprised at the number of borderline competent people flying jets, this incident just proved that. 

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