Brand new Aspen failure

[NJMac]

I posted this over on the Mooney Facebook group and Dev asked me to share it here too.

 

- 2nd flight on the new aspen E5.

- MGY to POF filed IFR in a little over 3 hrs on Victor airways. Left 1935z Got gas and some cargo and headed back after no more than 30 mins on the ground.

- coming back VFR, heading ~060, 7500 msl, unsure of OAT.

- roughly 2 hrs into the return trip my avidyne displays an error bottom right of the screen. Arnic (spelling) failure.

- Look over at the Aspen and its pitch black. 1-2 seconds and then it comes back on just as it does when it turns on. 8 seconds or so and its back online.

 

No issues the rest of the flight.

 

Worried this issue will repeat itself in real IMC. Avionics guy is in contact with Aspen and assures me they will resolve it.

 

Edit - mid post i got a call from my installer who just talked with Mike from Aspen. Supposedly mine is the only one to have this failure, so far.

 

The working theory is that around dusk I flipped on all 3 light, LED landing and original position/beacon. They're going to pull battery logs tomorrow and see if the diaplay went into battery mode at that point, ran out of battery, then came back alive with normal bus voltage? He seemed to think it was a logical explanation and with JPI and Aspen logs fealt sure he could confirm or bust their theory.

 

Stratus 2s and foreflight was supposed to be a battery backup redundancy I never had to use. That we broke out in our 2nd trip with the new hardware.

 

Dev was wanting this info here with all the max upgrades using this same hardware / processors I believe.

 

I'll update as I know more. Should have another 20 hrs on the Moonship next 2 weeks so hopefully will flush this out completely.

 

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[MIm20c]

What is your voltage under no load with the engine running?  

[NJMac]

What is your voltage under no load with the engine running?  

I can tell you tomorrow, dont know

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[Bob_Belville]

Is your Aspen version 2.9 or 2.9.0.1? The later version has a fix for a conflict that might be the issue.


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[carusoam]

Expect your Spelling challenge is an ARINC failure?

Standards of data communication in and out of the device?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC

What else Is connected to the display?

The Arinc is probably one of the plugs in the back that has multiple wires that may include the power...

Complete speculation on my part, most likely an installation challenge, if this is the issue...

Best regards,

-a-

[PTK]

21 hours ago, NJMac said:

Worried this issue will repeat itself in real IMC.

Trust is the major issue I have with these boxes. Especially Aspen with all their problems. I cringe when people depend on these things in IMC. To me trust is like “glass”. Once broken it will never be the same. (Pun intended!)

[Cruiser]

The FAA has certified this system to be safe and accurate. 

Pilots should always practice emergency partial panel hand flying in less than ideal conditions. There is no reason an average pilot should be in any risk when their primary AI stops working. Any more than when the vacuum pumps fails in IMC in a steam gauge equipped airplane. 

[jaylw314]

I just watched "The Impossible Flight" on PBS about the circumnavigation by the aircraft Solar Impulse and it's creators.  I couldn't tell for sure, but it looks like the used a couple Aspen PFD's as their primary instruments.  Has anybody seen that show?

Tellingly, they had some kind of autopilot interface malfunction during their cross-Pacific leg, but they continued on anyway for that five-day solo flight   That was kind of sketchy...

[MIm20c]

5 hours ago, PTK said:

Trust is the major issue I have with these boxes. Especially Aspen with all their problems. I cringe when people depend on these things in IMC. To me trust is like “glass”. Once broken it will never be the same. (Pun intended!)

He’s baaack!!!  I really did miss these post.

[DXB]

The anunciat

On 7/1/2019 at 11:55 AM, NJMac said:

The working theory is that around dusk I flipped on all 3 light, LED landing and original position/beacon. They're going to pull battery logs tomorrow and see if the diaplay went into battery mode at that point, ran out of battery, then came back alive with normal bus voltage? He seemed to think it was a logical explanation and with JPI and Aspen logs fealt sure he could confirm or bust their theory.

Thanks for posting to a semi-civilized forum . I know the old units don't need much of a bus voltage drop at all to go on internal back up battery - only 12.3V I think.  I'm surprised you wouldn't notice that it had happened though -  the red annunciation is pretty eye catching.  It's happened to me twice - once with an alternator failure. The second  time after A&P test flying the plane didn't understand the concept of the lock switch for the pfd and jacked it up trying to force so that the contact inside became intermittent in flight.  In both cases the annunciation caught my attention immediately, even before I saw the low amp annunciation on my JPI the case of the alternator failure.  If your unit really did go on internal backup, I wonder how long the battery lasted before the screen went blank?  The new units are supposed to have a much better battery I think.  The original units' batteries suck. That issue along with the potential to get red Xs with a pitot static issue made me decide to upgrade immediately when the chance arose.  

25 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

He’s baaack!!!  I really did miss these post.

 Not taking the bait this time 

[NJMac]

What is your voltage under no load with the engine running?  

13.7-13.8v

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[NJMac]

The logs he said he would pull were just what he could get from the ifd440. And that got us no where.

I really wasn't in the mood to play test pilot after 3 hrs IFR training today. But one day soon I need to purposely kick it over to battery backup ops and see how long the red box indicating battery mode stays up there on screen. For my life, I can't believe I missed that notification for 30 minutes or whatever it lasted before the screen went dark, if the notification is live while drawing on the battery.

I DO agree that having a plan B is wise. I guess my DPE likes to do partial panel via the synthetic vision on foreflight on a localizer approach at the end of his checkrides, not as part of the ride but to help his examinees know what options they have. I'll be sure to become proficient since that's my plan B to the Aspen.

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[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I just watched "The Impossible Flight" on PBS about the circumnavigation by the aircraft Solar Impulse and it's creators.  I couldn't tell for sure, but it looks like the used a couple Aspen PFD's as their primary instruments.  Has anybody seen that show?

Tellingly, they had some kind of autopilot interface malfunction during their cross-Pacific leg, but they continued on anyway for that five-day solo flight   That was kind of sketchy...

There is no Aspen in the panel. Looks like two 7" (?) Garmins in Portrait mode in the center of the panel.

[jaylw314]

6 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

There is no Aspen in the panel. Looks like two 7" (?) Garmins in Portrait mode in the center of the panel.

Thanks, I thought I saw the Aspen logo on one of the later shots, but I was falling asleep by that point...

[Oldguy]

17 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

There is no Aspen in the panel. Looks like two 7" (?) Garmins in Portrait mode in the center of the panel.

Looks like 2 G3X or GPSMAP 696 units in there, but I can't tell if there are screws on the corners holding them in (G3X) or not (GPSMAP 696).

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Oldguy said:

Looks like 2 G3X or GPSMAP 696 units in there, but I can't tell if there are screws on the corners holding them in (G3X) or not (GPSMAP 696).

Definitely not 696 units, they don't have synthetic vision.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, PTK said:

Trust is the major issue I have with these boxes. Especially Aspen with all their problems. I cringe when people depend on these things in IMC. To me trust is like “glass”. Once broken it will never be the same. (Pun intended!)

I’ve had my Aspen for almost 7 years, never had an issue yet.

Clarence

[Andy95W]

On 7/2/2019 at 8:27 AM, PTK said:

I cringe when people depend on these things in IMC.

Peter, if only an Aspen is enough to make you cringe, you should really expand your frame of reference to a lot more things to scare yourself with in IMC.  

What about your decades-old technology vacuum pump that can fail at any time?  What about your single engine?  Or your dual magneto that uses a single drive shaft and only two nuts and lock washers to hold itself onto your accessory case?  Or your propeller that's doing its best to throw a blade with every revolution?  Or the one 3/16" bolt below your feet that holds your aileron linkage together?  Or that you are a single pilot and not in a crew that can cross-check each other during IMC operations?

I would think an Aspen ought to be pretty low on your list.

[MIm20c]

29 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

What about your decades-old technology vacuum pump that can fail at any time?  What about your single engine?  Or your dual magneto that uses a single drive shaft and only two nuts and lock washers to hold itself onto your accessory case?  Or your propeller that's doing its best to throw a blade with every revolution?  Or the one 3/16" bolt below your feet that holds your aileron linkage together?  Or that you are a single pilot and not in a crew that can cross-check each other during IMC operations?

Just great, now I have to worry about my engine stopping and my control surfaces falling off as I go inverted in IMC because my aspen failed.  Might as well take my MC through Chicago to get to OSH, most are traveling at Mooney speed anyway. 

[bd95r]

@NJMac ....  Did you ever get a resolution on this.  I have a very similar situation I've been chasing almost all year with my E5.

here:  

 

[Baker Avionics]

On 7/1/2019 at 10:41 PM, carusoam said:

Expect your Spelling challenge is an ARINC failure?

Standards of data communication in and out of the device?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARINC

What else Is connected to the display?

The Arinc is probably one of the plugs in the back that has multiple wires that may include the power...

Complete speculation on my part, most likely an installation challenge, if this is the issue...

Best regards,

-a-

There is a single connector on the back of the Aspen.  It seems like there is a loose connection, to me at least.  We have installed a ton of these and are continually selling them, as we are the highest selling Aspen Dealer in the Western Region(plug for us), and we haven't had any of these issues.  Now, is the bundle double shielded and have the overbraid? @NJMac Does it happen when transmitting on the radio and if so, which frequencies?  It truly sounds more like a bad crimp to me.  

[Marauder]

There is a single connector on the back of the Aspen.  It seems like there is a loose connection, to me at least.  We have installed a ton of these and are continually selling them, as we are the highest selling Aspen Dealer in the Western Region(plug for us), and we haven't had any of these issues.  Now, is the bundle double shielded and have the overbraid? [mention=16476]NJMac[/mention] Does it happen when transmitting on the radio and if so, which frequencies?  It truly sounds more like a bad crimp to me.  

This connector.




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[Baker Avionics]

2 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

This connector.




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That's the one

[mike_elliott]

On 7/3/2019 at 11:15 AM, Andy95W said:

Peter, if only an Aspen is enough to make you cringe, you should really expand your frame of reference to a lot more things to scare yourself with in IMC.  

What about your decades-old technology vacuum pump that can fail at any time?  What about your single engine?  Or your dual magneto that uses a single drive shaft and only two nuts and lock washers to hold itself onto your accessory case?  Or your propeller that's doing its best to throw a blade with every revolution?  Or the one 3/16" bolt below your feet that holds your aileron linkage together?  Or that you are a single pilot and not in a crew that can cross-check each other during IMC operations?

I would think an Aspen ought to be pretty low on your list.

Dont forget that itty bitty bolt that holds the entire tail on. If that fails, you will be UWOF for sure.

[Yetti]

22 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Dont forget that itty bitty bolt that holds the entire tail on. If that fails, you will be UWOF for sure.

There is a hinge and 2 small bolts on either side, I thought that hold the tail on.  For me it is the 4 itty bitty bolts that hold the engine mount to the firewall.

Dynon uses 2 pins for power to their units.  And 2 ground pins also.