GFC500 Update

[Bob - S50]

52 minutes ago, wcb said:

 

I am feeling like @nosky2high and not planning on waiting yet another year on Garmin.  The J is the same basic body as the G and F.  There is no engineering reason not to have it included with the J's.  I was willing to pay more for Garmin over Trutrak and Trio assuming they were coming out basically at the same time.  In fact was willing not only to pay more but also pay for some of the other luxury items like the trim kit and possibly the yaw dampener (just to be ALL IN).  Was considering adding the Garmin 650 over the Avidyne 540.  Now it looks like for sure the Aidyne and (Trutrak or Trio).

That is, of course, your choice.  Both the Trio and Trutrak should be good units.  I'm just guessing, but I'm wondering if maybe the delay for the F and (converted) G's has to do with the fact that some (most?) have the manual gear system.

Once again, it all comes down to what you want out of an autopilot.  If you are just looking for something that can ease your workload during climb, cruise, and descent; and you don't care about electric trim or an autopilot that can legally fly an LPV or ILS approach for you (even though it is capable of flying the LPV); then the Trio or Trutrak should be everything you want.  If not, then patience grasshopper (if you get that reference you are really old like me).

[Stanton R]

Have Trio or Trutrak finished the STC for Mooneys

[NJMac]

Have Trio or Trutrak finished the STC for Mooneys

Supposedly trutrac is doing the mooney test flights as we speak. I'm planning on doing my annual early this winter so we can put one in at the same time. Truth be told I'd rather the gfc500 but with Garmin 86ing the short bodies they made the choice for me.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[gsxrpilot]

On 10/30/2018 at 9:23 AM, wcb said:

 

I am feeling like @nosky2high and not planning on waiting yet another year on Garmin.  The J is the same basic body as the G and F.  There is no engineering reason not to have it included with the J's.  I was willing to pay more for Garmin over Trutrak and Trio assuming they were coming out basically at the same time.  In fact was willing not only to pay more but also pay for some of the other luxury items like the trim kit and possibly the yaw dampener (just to be ALL IN).  Was considering adding the Garmin 650 over the Avidyne 540.  Now it looks like for sure the Aidyne and (Trutrak or Trio).

I don't know about the Trutrak or Trio, but you'll definitely be happier with the Avidyne 540 over the Garmin 650. The Garmin 750 is great, but the 650 is the worst, most difficult to use, modern GPS on the market today.

[MIm20c]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

I don't know about the Trutrak or Trio, but you'll definitely be happier with the Avidyne 540 over the Garmin 650. The Garmin 750 is great, but the 650 is the worst, most difficult to use, modern GPS on the market today.

The $3-4K difference goes a long way towards an Aspen or txi...;)

[N6758N]

4 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I don't know about the Trutrak or Trio, but you'll definitely be happier with the Avidyne 540 over the Garmin 650. The Garmin 750 is great, but the 650 is the worst, most difficult to use, modern GPS on the market today.

I think there are plenty of happy 650 users who would disagree with that...Worst ever? Did you forget about the KSN770? 

[carusoam]

The Jury is still out on the 770...

During the roadshow it was called klugey, because it wasn’t done yet...

A handful of shops had to buy one...

They in turn sold them to a lucky handful of people... at a proper deep discount...

Approximately one got installed in a Mooney...

Don't know if there was ever a version 2.0 on the software update path...

Reminder... get the product development done in time...  You can’t survive a less than mediocre roadshow... with two competitors in the field...

Anyone have an update?

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MIm20c]

I think @donkaye was going to going to do some training in a Mooney with one (770) installed.  IIRC it started to grow on him slightly with the Aspen like interface. 

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, N6758N said:

I think there are plenty of happy 650 users who would disagree with that...Worst ever? Did you forget about the KSN770? 

I'm only comparing the current selection of GPS units. The Garmin 750 and 650, and the Avidyne 550/540 and 440. The only happy 650 owners I know personally, haven't had occasion to fly behind any of the other options from this group. Conversely I know several who wish they'd either gone with the Avidyne 440 or paid up and gone with the 750.

Of those pilots with experience across all four units... the consensus stack ranking seems to be pretty consistent. And there's a pretty big gap between 3 and 4.

1. Garmin 750
2. Avidyne 550/540
3. Avidyne 440
4. Garmin 650

[Spurious Moppet]

5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm only comparing the current selection of GPS units. The Garmin 750 and 650, and the Avidyne 550/540 and 440. The only happy 650 owners I know personally, haven't had occasion to fly behind any of the other options from this group. Conversely I know several who wish they'd either gone with the Avidyne 440 or paid up and gone with the 750.

Of those pilots with experience across all four units... the consensus stack ranking seems to be pretty consistent. And there's a pretty big gap between 3 and 4.

1. Garmin 750
2. Avidyne 550/540
3. Avidyne 440
4. Garmin 650

I fiddled with a 540 at Oshkosh and I didn't like it. Can't tell you why exactly. I think in my mind it was supposed to be a lot larger than it turned out to be. I ended up getting a used 650 and I'm impressed at how easy the thing is to use. My wife was concerned that I was ditching the GPS map 496 because she liked that thing, but the 650 is even easier to use than that thing was. I've used  a 430 and now that I have the 650 I'm REALLY glad I didn't put in one of those things. So the 650 seems pretty OK.

[Bob - S50]

16 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I don't know about the Trutrak or Trio, but you'll definitely be happier with the Avidyne 540 over the Garmin 650. The Garmin 750 is great, but the 650 is the worst, most difficult to use, modern GPS on the market today.

It's all a matter of what you are used to.  If you are referring to the data input keyboard, software v6.50+ fixes that.  Gives you three choices:  current style, qwerty with a separate numeric keypad, or all of it divided into 3 screens; A-M, N-Z, and numeric.

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, Frozen Flying said:

I fiddled with a 540 at Oshkosh and I didn't like it. Can't tell you why exactly. I think in my mind it was supposed to be a lot larger than it turned out to be. I ended up getting a used 650 and I'm impressed at how easy the thing is to use. My wife was concerned that I was ditching the GPS map 496 because she liked that thing, but the 650 is even easier to use than that thing was. I've used  a 430 and now that I have the 650 I'm REALLY glad I didn't put in one of those things. So the 650 seems pretty OK.

Yep, it all comes down to personal preference. I'm a tech guy so I tend to ignore what I'm comfortable with today and look for tech that is better thought out even if I have to learn something new.

I think it's interesting that you bought a used 650. I see used 650's for sale pretty often. But I've been looking for a used 440 for about a year now and haven't found one. That would seem to be a small indication of the popularity of the units.

[gsxrpilot]

31 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

It's all a matter of what you are used to.  If you are referring to the data input keyboard, software v6.50+ fixes that.  Gives you three choices:  current style, qwerty with a separate numeric keypad, or all of it divided into 3 screens; A-M, N-Z, and numeric.

The data input keyboard was part of it. The other is just the lack of knobs/buttons requiring everything to be done with the touch screen. I fly with a friend who has a 650 and it's a constant complaint about trying to use it in turbulence or just rough air. He's tried all different types of techniques of steading his hand while doing it, but it's difficult. When he flies with me and my Avidyne, there just isn't the same issues. For some tasks, the touch screen is perfect, for other tasks buttons are easier to use. The Avidyne gives me both... and a bluetooth keyboard as well.

Some folks like to stick with what they know. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. Others prefer to look for better tech, even if it includes a learning curve.

[MIm20c]

Only major gripe of the 650 is the placement of the transponder shortcut. Constantly clipping it in turbulence.  Planning on removing it if I can. 

I’d still rather have a 650 and 10 inch txi vs the 750 and the 7 inch txi.

[ArtVandelay]

The touchscreen vs knobs preference seems to correlate to younger vs older pilots.

[Emmet]

I thought this topic deals with GFC 500 update and not 650 bashing .... just saying ...

Edited November 2, 2018 by Emmet

[Marauder]

16 minutes ago, Emmet said:

I thought this topic deals with GFC 500 update and not 650 bashing .... just saying ...

The day any MooneySpace thread stays on topic, I am running out and buying extra lottery tickets. Either that or grab my "Bug Out" bag and head to the airport because the zombie apocalypse has started. 

[aviatoreb]

21 minutes ago, Emmet said:

I thought this topic deals with GFC 500 update and not 650 bashing .... just saying ...

I think Lean of Peak is a myth.  No one could possibly run an engine lean of peak.  Its impossible.

[Marauder]

Just now, aviatoreb said:

I think Lean of Peak is a myth.  No one could possibly run an engine lean of peak.  Its impossible.

But zombies are REAL! And you better be prepared!

[MIm20c]

I’m curious how many hours Garmin is flying each aircraft for certification purposes?  For anyone that sent off their plane to Garmin did they give you an estimated number of hours?

[Andy95W]

[khedrei]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

 

I think it's interesting that you bought a used 650. I see used 650's for sale pretty often. But I've been looking for a used 440 for about a year now and haven't found one. That would seem to be a small indication of the popularity of the units.

I have a feeling that has more to do with the fact that the 440's are extremely affordable and drop in replacements for the 430 than it has to do with whether it is better than the 650 or not.  I don't have either of them...  yet.  So I can't comment on how good either of them are, I'm just pointing out my opinion as to why that might be.  The people that buy the 440's are generally the budget oriented ones.  And ones that already had a 430 which made the upgrade even easier.  Why would they get rid of it now...?

 

Edited November 2, 2018 by khedrei
spelling

[Jetlag]

12 hours ago, MIm20c said:

I’m curious how many hours Garmin is flying each aircraft for certification purposes?  For anyone that sent off their plane to Garmin did they give you an estimated number of hours?

They told me between 25-50 hours. According to Flightaware, it looks like they just started flying my plane for the certification of long body Mooneys.  I am scheduled to get my plane back in December. 

[Emmet]

I am wondering if they build a special parameter set for each type...

Does anybody know anything about it ?

[LANCECASPER]

On 11/3/2018 at 12:57 AM, Jetlag said:

They told me between 25-50 hours. According to Flightaware, it looks like they just started flying my plane for the certification of long body Mooneys.  I am scheduled to get my plane back in December. 

Wow no kidding - they flew it all morning and afternoon yesterday.