Introduction / Request

[wc351]

Hello everyone. My name is Will and I am from North Georgia.

I wanted to introduce myself but wasn't sure if this was the right area to do it. A little background on me and my flight adventures. My dad got me interested in planes really young and I have been hooked ever since. My first flight (I was in my early teens) that I still am not sure how he manged to convince the pilot to allow, was in a B-24 Liberator from KBKD (Stephens County) to PDK (Peachtree-Dekalb) flying in formation with a B-17 with a Mooney following. Other than the crew there were 3 passengers on board. They flew in a zig-zag pattern form one stop to the next and the flight was close to an hour. 

My next step in aviation was being the crew for the hot air balloon Evening Sunrise for 5 years in Sautee Ga which is just outside of Helen Ga. I flew in a few balloons  over those years and still get giddy when I see one on the ground or in the air. The pilot who was also my neighbor wanted to become a commercial airline pilot so he started to pursue his license. To build time he purchased a late 50's Cessna 170/172. Since he didn't want to fly much by himself he asked if I would like to go, and of course I couldn't turn it down. So I ended up with roughly 175 hours right seat time the Cessna and then probably 20 in the Cherokee 140 after the Cessna. 

Then life events happened. I have been out of the skies for way to long, feels like a lifetime ago but it has been roughly 15 years. So I have decided to commit myself to getting my pilots license and my own plane. From the time that I first learned about different planes I have loved Mooney's and seeing one out of the side of a B-24 in formation was something I will never forget. So here I am pursuing a childhood dream.

 

I do need some guidance though when it comes to researching the different models of Mooney's so that I can find one that will be best for what I feel like would be my intended use. And one that I would really enjoy flying as time goes on. 

If someone could guide me in the direction of good places to learn or types of planes to learn on, so that I can be better prepared to transition into a Mooney. 

[1964-M20E]

Will

 

Welcome aboard

First thing I would do is find a place where you can rent a 172 or a 150, find an instructor and get you PPL either a school or independent instructor.  I did all my ratings PPL, IR and Rotor using independent instructors in either rental or my own aircraft.  You really don't want to be struggling with learning to own and maintain a plane while learning to fly.  Twice the drain on your budget.  You can buy a Mooney and get your license in it some have done that but many older Mooneys only have brakes on the pilot side.  Some instructors may not like that early on in your training.

You say you have 175 hours how many of those were with an instructor?  Those are the only ones you can take credit for to get your license. 

Make sure you have a minimum $7,000 (min 40 hours $150 plus miscellaneous items) in the bank dedicated for flying to get you license.  This cash is above and beyond any emergency cash reserves you need for your normal life.  You may spend less than this but you will have it covered.  This way you do not have to postpone flying because you do not have the money.  Make sure you put flying on your schedule just like soccer games, baseball games for the kids.  You go fly first that is on the schedule.  Set a goal to get your license in 6 months oar less it is doable.  I got mine in 5 months while a full time college student, and working part time to pay all my flying expenses myself.

Once you have your license get checked out on any other plane you can i.e. complex (retractable gear and adjustable prop), high performance (>200HP), maybe a tail dragger.  Get to the point where you have about  70 to 100 hours pilot in command PIC.

Now define your mission. 

Where do you want to fly, cross country, local, high and fast, low and slow?

How many people will you regularly carry on a normal flight?

Once you have determined what you mission is find a plane that fits that mission as closely as possible.

When I was looking at purchasing a plane the Mooney, Piper Arrow and Cessna 177RG floated to the top of the list.  All 4 place, 200HP+/- 135 to 150kts +/-.  Mooney airplanes wonderful and capable and if it fits your mission you will not be disappointed in almost any model.

Others will chime in with good advice as well.

[MyNameIsNobody]

Train in a Cherokee 180 NOT a Cessna.  Low wing and flying/landing characteristics of a low wing Piper much more similar to a Mooney.  Your right seat time will be valuable.  Good luck in the pursuit of your PP!

[MyNameIsNobody]

Took me over a year to obtain my PPL.  I had two young kids and was on a budget.  I would ask how much $ is available this month...It will take more time and $ this way as likely will lose your instructor and have to prove yourself again, but don’t WAIT until you have all the money saved...You will never get started.

[Hank]

Hey, Will.

Put some information in your avatar and you may get better responses. I've lived in Stephens County, and we have a member who lives and flies there now.

When talking to various flight schools, don't be afraid to ask for discounts, but don't prepay the whole thing! My school gave a 10% discount if I bought in 10-hour blocks, so that's what I did. Whenever I was about to run out, I'd buy 10 more hours. Started in October while working full-time as Manufacturing Engineer making medical devices during the day and getting my Master's in Engineering at night. It was easy--I flew on the weekends, and sometimes in the evening after work when we could sync our schedules. Finished up in May, because the WV winter was so bad that I could only make one flight in Jan & Feb combined.

As you train, talk to other pilots at the airport about their planes, and be sure to talk to the mechanics, too. Renting other models may be difficult, depending on what is available, but it will certainly help you figure out what you need. The key is to figure out what your needs are, then buying a plane that meets them.

Good luck, have fun and stay in touch!

[Oldguy]

Welcome aboard, Will.

@MyNameIsNobody, aka Scott, has some good advice about using a low-wing trainer if you want to end up with a Mooney. You might find a Piper Warrior, Archer, or another flavor of Cherokee to use as a trainer and they all would be fine. While you don't say where in North Georgia you are located, it is probably good to stay out of the larger airports while training as you can find yourself burning time and money sitting on the taxiway waiting for a slot to depart.

Not to throw cold water on anything, but the first thing to do would be get your flight physical taken care of. You need to get a third-class medical and any health problems should be handled sooner rather than later. Then spend some time shopping for a flight instructor. Finding the right one can be like dating - there needs to be compatibility between the two of you for everything to go the best it can.

Best of luck, and fill out some more of your avatar to let us know where you are located. There is likely someone close by who might have an instructor to recommend.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Oldguy
Typo

[wc351]

27 minutes ago, 1964-M20E said:

Will

 

Welcome aboard

First thing I would do is find a place where you can rent a 172 or a 150, find an instructor and get you PPL either a school or independent instructor.  I did all my ratings PPL, IR and Rotor using independent instructors in either rental or my own aircraft.  You really don't want to be struggling with learning to own and maintain a plane while learning to fly.  Twice the drain on your budget.  You can buy a Mooney and get your license in it some have done that but many older Mooneys only have brakes on the pilot side.  Some instructors may not like that early on in your training.

You say you have 175 hours how many of those were with an instructor?  Those are the only ones you can take credit for to get your license. 

Make sure you have a minimum $7,000 (min 40 hours $150 plus miscellaneous items) in the bank dedicated for flying to get you license.  This cash is above and beyond any emergency cash reserves you need for your normal life.  You may spend less than this but you will have it covered.  This way you do not have to postpone flying because you do not have the money.  Make sure you put flying on your schedule just like soccer games, baseball games for the kids.  You go fly first that is on the schedule.  Set a goal to get your license in 6 months oar less it is doable.  I got mine in 5 months while a full time college student, and working part time to pay all my flying expenses myself.

Once you have your license get checked out on any other plane you can i.e. complex (retractable gear and adjustable prop), high performance (>200HP), maybe a tail dragger.  Get to the point where you have about  70 to 100 hours pilot in command PIC.

Now define your mission. 

Where do you want to fly, cross country, local, high and fast, low and slow?

How many people will you regularly carry on a normal flight?

Once you have determined what you mission is find a plane that fits that mission as closely as possible.

When I was looking at purchasing a plane the Mooney, Piper Arrow and Cessna 177RG floated to the top of the list.  All 4 place, 200HP+/- 135 to 150kts +/-.  Mooney airplanes wonderful and capable and if it fits your mission you will not be disappointed in almost any model.

Others will chime in with good advice as well.

Thanks for the welcome.

Only had 2 hours with an instructor in the plane. I would do small things while in flight and only partially had the controls from time to time. I wish some of that time would transition officially but I know that time was invaluable in my pursuit now because I understand so much more about the dynamics of what the controls do.

I do plan on saving at least $5k before getting started and have been thinking really hard about studying for the written on my own. 

My mission will be mixed as I am sure most peoples are. I do know that there will be flights to and from Michigan several times a year to see family, we would also be flying to Charleston for family as well. 

Most of the time it would only be two people on board until kids start to come into the mix.  

[wc351]

7 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

Welcome aboard, Will.

@MyNameIsNobody, aka Scott, has some good advice about using a low-wing trainer if you want to end up with a Mooney. You might find a Piper Warrior, Archer, or another flavor of Cherokee to use as a trainer and they all would be fine. While you don't say where in North Georgia you are located, it is probably good to stay out of the larger airports while training as you can find yourself burning time and money sitting on the taxiway waiting for a slot to depart.

Not to throw cold water on anything, but the first thing to do would be get your flight physical taken care of. You need to get a third-class medical and any health problems should be handled sooner rather than later. Then spend some time shopping for a flight instructor. Finding the right one can be like dating - there needs to be compatibility between the two of you for everything to go the best it can.

Best of luck, and fill out some more of your avatar to let us know where you are located. There is likely someone close by who might have an instructor to recommend.

I had only vaguely thought about the trainer being high or low wing. Makes a lot of sense to train in a low wing. Working on the avatar part now.

[1964-M20E]

Training in a low is fine.  When I was getting my license150s and 172s were more available than low wing.  However, I did not find it difficult to transition to the Mooney from flying almost exclusively high wing aircraft with small amounts of time in low wing aircraft.  Low wing aircraft tend to float a bit more in ground effect when landing than high wing aircraft.  The view is different between the two and for sightseeing high wing aircraft are better but once in the air they pretty much fly the same way.

Oh and having $5,000 when starting your training is good.

[skydvrboy]

I wouldn't worry about whether any of your previous experience officially transfers over or not.  There is enough to learn in beyond how to control the plane that you won't run out of things to learn before you hit that 40 hour minimum.  The point is that what you learned and absorbed will transfer over and make the training go that much easier.  I had a skydiving background and none of that officially transferred over, but the skills and exposure helped me learn a lot faster.

If you are on a budget (I was), don't worry about high wing/low wing, find the cheapest plane to fly.  You can transition into your aircraft later.  I'll also echo the comments about finding a small airport, less taxi time, more personalized instruction, and better support.  In my case, the airport only trained about 2 pilots a year, so everyone knew me was VERY interested in seeing me succeed.

Also, you are on the right track with self study for the written.  The FAA provides everything you will need to know to pass your written free of charge, spend the time reading it.  There are also some great websites for this http://www.ascentgroundschool.com/ or http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/, either will cover everything you need to know.  My paid "ground school" consisted of my instructor quizzing me for 30 minutes before signing me off for the written.

Last, I wouldn't wait to save up even $5,000 before starting.  Yes, that would be nice, but isn't required.  Don't be shy about asking the FBO operator if there's anything you can do in exchange for flight time, wash & wax the plane(s), mow the grounds, run errands, etc.  Chances are good they are paying an A&P to do these tasks now instead of working on planes.

[DonMuncy]

Go back through the Mooneyspace archives. There have been literality thousands of posts along the same lines as you are seeking. When you get enough background to get down to specific questions, MS gurus will have very good answers.

Welcome aboard. We are glad to have you.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm with Scott here @MyNameIsNobody. I wouldn't wait to save even the $5000.  I spent a life time trying to save the money to learn to fly. Finally I was convinced that all I really needed was enough for the first lesson. The important thing was to find the right instructor. I didn't go to a "school" but found an independent guy, old enough to have been to the airlines and back. This meant he wasn't building time, had his own Cherokee 140 for me to train in, and was happy to let me fly as opposed to constantly showing off his flying skills, which was what the young guys tended to do. The flight schools all wanted me to buy a bunch of books, gear, headset, etc. They also wanted me on a regular schedule. They all told me I'd be wasting time and money if I didn't commit. I said "its my time and my money and I'll waste it as I like." 

I interviewed 5 instructors, flew with 2 of them and picked one. My schedule was a) I had $150 in my pocket, b) I had the time, c)the instructor was available, d) the plane was available, e) the weather was acceptable. Anytime all 5 came together, I'd go fly. I took two lessons just to make sure I liked it, then got a medical. By the time I soloed I knew I should get busy on the written exam. Self study and passed it first try. Then just kept flying any chance I got.

As far as money goes, all you need is enough for the next lesson. So every time I'd saved up $150 I was good for another lesson. It took almost a year to get it done, but a hell of a lot quicker than waiting to save up the cash ahead of time.

Fast forward 10 years. I have an instrument rating, over a 1000 hours in the log book and my own Mooney. Any regrets? Yeah for sure, I should have started 20 years earlier.

[mike_elliott]

Go to your local airport on a Sat morning and hang out with the "old guys" They will be invaluable about giving you local advice on who what where when and how. to get this done given your conditions.

 

[wishboneash]

9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I'm with Scott here @MyNameIsNobody. I wouldn't wait to save even the $5000.  I spent a life time trying to save the money to learn to fly. Finally I was convinced that all I really needed was enough for the first lesson. The important thing was to find the right instructor. I didn't go to a "school" but found an independent guy, old enough to have been to the airlines and back. This meant he wasn't building time, had his own Cherokee 140 for me to train in, and was happy to let me fly as opposed to constantly showing off his flying skills, which was what the young guys tended to do. The flight schools all wanted me to buy a bunch of books, gear, headset, etc. They also wanted me on a regular schedule. They all told me I'd be wasting time and money if I didn't commit. I said "its my time and my money and I'll waste it as I like." 

 

Similar story to mine. I worked with a guy who flew cargo for a small carrier and had his own C-152 back in the early 90s. He wasn't into building time and knew the ins and outs of the system, ATC etc. He had his own notes and print outs which focused on the critical stuff. $40/hr for the plane and $20/hr for his time those days! . I got my licence in 9 months.

[jaylw314]

23 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Train in a Cherokee 180 NOT a Cessna.  Low wing and flying/landing characteristics of a low wing Piper much more similar to a Mooney.  Your right seat time will be valuable.  Good luck in the pursuit of your PP!

I think for primary training, it's not so important.  You don't really learn a whole lot of those nuances during that time, it's flooded with too many other things.  AFTER primary training, when you're building time and experience, it makes sense to be doing so in a low-wing aircraft, though.

Once you're ready to search for a Mooney though, MAPA has a bunch of old articles describing each model.  Anyone have those link?

[gsxrpilot]

59 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

Once you're ready to search for a Mooney though, MAPA has a bunch of old articles describing each model.  Anyone have those link?

http://www.mooneypilots.com/mapalog/

[carusoam]

Get it going before the House, cars, and kids eat up all the free cash flow....

my constriction when learning to fly, was daycare expenses...

When it comes to life time goals...  get them started...

 

Around here the local flight schools have a discovery flight for $100...  this allows you to meet a flight instructor and try out a school plane....  turn it into a flight lesson if everything is looking good...

Study up for free....

http://aviation.und.edu/multimedia/podcasts-videos.aspx

 

The more often you fly, the more time and economically efficient you will be...

 

Flying only a couple of times each month will take about two years to get the PPL.  If you enjoy the training, and don’t have a time line to meet, this can work pretty well...

 

If your goals are to own a Mooney... focus on economic efficiency... minimize the time off between lessons...  

minimizing repeated steps caused by time off, leaves more money for finding and buying a plane...

What’s your time line?

What are your constrictions?

Want to put some goals together?

PP thoughts only, not a cfi...

Best regards,

-a-

[wc351]

Wow, thanks for the amazing welcome everyone! I asked for information and opinions and it was delivered in spades, which I will be using for all of my research. I will try to answer the questions and comments from everyone but I might miss something.

I'm not sure if going and hanging out with the "old guys" will be possible since my local airport doesn't have a good place to hang out unless it is in a hangar, which you can't get to unless you have permission. But I will see what I can do. 

My timeline is before I'm 40 which is only 2 years away, so I have started my planning and research now because I research things to death before making a decision. I do know in my heart that this is the right time and right thing to do. This should give me plenty of time to get more than enough up for training and really make a dent on the cost of a plane.

Constrictions... like most the biggest is time to go do it. Currently there are no kids in the equation and I want to have my PPL before that time comes. The other is me and getting out of my own way. I personally tend to try and do way to many projects at a time and scatter my brain, a result of having to do everything as a kid and young adult, from building or repairing things for my parents house or mine to being the family mechanic for everything I suppose.  (Side note here. I do not do mechanic work as a profession but still work on my own stuff and have given up on anything major construction now. I am now a Python Automation Engineer)

My biggest goal is to get the training started by next summer and only need the minimum amount of time in the air to get my PPL, I currently have no plans on getting a CFI. So doing the written on my own will help to accelerate the time spend with an instructor.

My second major goal (dream) is to be able to fly to a honeymoon spot when that time comes instead of flying commercial or driving. We aren't engaged yet but we have talked a lot about it and we both have major life goals we want to attain before marriage. 

Other goals include getting my own plane as soon as possible but I don't have a timeline on that yet since things can change on what I think will be my flight missions.

[carusoam]

For a good honeymoon video... see @201er‘s...

Mike has posted a few videos from buying his 201 to Flying it to the arctic circle and the Caribbean including Cuba...

See if you can catch a Mooney fly-in...  

Get that discovery flight scheduled...

Maintain headway...

Best regards,

-a-

[wc351]

All of these were taken with a throw away camera. So the B-17 really was that close to use. That is the pilot, myself, and the pilot's fiance who had to "chaperon" me  so that I could fly. The only other passenger was a photographer. It was scary walking through the bomb bay while in flight to get to the tail gunner's position, otherwise it was incredible. 

[wc351]

3 minutes ago, carusoam said:

For a good honeymoon video... see @201er’s...

Mike has posted a few videos from buying his 201 to Flying it to the arctic circle and the Caribbean including Cuba...

See if you can catch a Mooney fly-in...  

Get that discovery flight scheduled...

Maintain headway...

Best regards,

-a-

I saw part of that video and got the idea from him. When I saw it I thought "what an amazing thing to do"

[Skates97]

25 minutes ago, wc351 said:

We aren't engaged yet but we have talked a lot about it and we both have major life goals we want to attain before marriage. 

I know you came here for flying advice and not life advice, but... 

Some may agree and some won't. Many of my major goals in life were accomplished because of a supportive wife by my side, or at least easier to accomplish. Of course that is dependent on marrying the right person. The opposite is true. It's very difficult to accomplish things with the wrong person by your side. 

[wc351]

10 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I know you came here for flying advice and not life advice, but... 

Some may agree and some won't. Many of my major goals in life were accomplished because of a supportive wife by my side, or at least easier to accomplish. Of course that is dependent on marrying the right person. The opposite is true. It's very difficult to accomplish things with the wrong person by your side. 

She definitely is behind me 100%, my ex would not have been at all. Thanks for the advice though.

[1964-M20E]

Well good luck, grab life, hang on and live it.

Paraphrasing someone smarter than me "in life you will regret more of the things you didn't do than the things that you did do".

and to add to that "there are somethings you ultimately will do but you will regret you didn't do them sooner".

 

[MARZ]

For your self study and test preparation - there are a lot of iPhone apps out there that give randomized test questions.  I found it a great way to gauge how I was doing on my studies.