Aspen Evolution 5?

[MIm20c]

17 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Theyre great for that, but you need the HSI CDI bar to view your wind correction angle and to intercept the course. Enroute is one thing, but an approach is another.  There's a reason why all those HSI's are out there, and those jet airplanes have this presentation. The FD helps greatly in this area but the ND also has a large magena line you keep vertical on the approach.

Not disagreeing with the importance of an HSI. But what’s included with the aspen is much more than a DG. I don’t think you realize how nice that small little blue diamond is on the DG in your picture. That with the info on the AI and the CRS arrow is money in the bank.  

In case you have not flown with the blue diamond it is your wind correction angle which is very helpful flying VOR holding patterns and everything else during the approach phase. 

[gsxrpilot]

I agree... I wouldn't want to be flying hard IFR without a proper HSI. 

When I bought my first Mooney, the M20C, I shopped around until I found one with a real HSI in the panel. And then with the 252 I shopped Barnstormers until I found an Aspen PFD Pro that had full HSI functionality. I gave $6K for the Aspen unit and feel that was a great value.

[jetdriven]

Yes I didn’t have an HSI in my airplane until last year. Let’s just say that flying an approach down to minimums with unknown winds or changing winds is a lot easier now than it was before.  I’m not as Rusty flying IFR than I used to be.. In fact now I will fly a lot worse stuff now then I would before because I have a real IFR GPS and some other stuff, such as an HSI. . I paid for that and I got it . I still wouldn’t rip it out and exchange for something that looks a lot prettier but has less functionality.  Yes you can do approach with any old equipment but why upgrade something thats not really an upgrade ? It looks cool I get that it’s glass and it’s probably more reliable I get that too but I don’t get is the DG with a course pointer. 

 

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[PTK]

7 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Is your hsi glass or an old King thingy thing?  If the latter then you have the same in the E5 from what i can see.  

Andrew, let’s try this again: the E5 does not have an HSI. Only a DG. Do you know the difference between a DG and an HSI? 

[Cruiser]

Look all of you......... lets not get in a spat over terminology.

Call it what you want. The functions are almost the same.

What is an HSI? the Horizontal Situation Indicator combines the DG with the CDI and a couple of other cool things.

Aspen E5 has a DG with a  CDI. 

[mike_elliott]

5 hours ago, jackn said:

Aspen has a new press release on their website. They say it has a better processor with faster graphics refresh rate. 

Im not saying I totally believe them, but there you have it. 

 

Naw, aspen is just making it all up to wind up Peter.

[jetdriven]

An HSI has a CDI overlaid onto the face of the compass card. This does not have that, and even by Aspen’s marketing it doesn’t have a HSI. The cdi bar at the bottom is nice but it isn’t the same thing. Perhaps since you bought an Aspen you feel the need emotion defend it to the death. Or perhaps you’re not sophisticated enough to know the difference. IDK.  But your argument is dead. 

[Cruiser]

18 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

An HSI has a CDI overlaid onto the face of the compass card. This does not have that, and even by Aspen’s marketing it doesn’t have a HSI. The cdi bar at the bottom is nice but it isn’t the same thing. Perhaps since you bought an Aspen you feel the need emotion defend it to the death. Or perhaps you’re not sophisticated enough to know the difference. IDK.  But your argument is dead. 

Maybe you should re-read my post again....... with a little more comprehension.

[jetdriven]

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

Maybe you should re-read my post again....... with a little more comprehension.

 

1 hour ago, Cruiser said:

Look all of you......... lets not get in a spat over terminology.

Call it what you want. The functions are almost the same.

What is an HSI? the Horizontal Situation Indicator combines the DG with the CDI and a couple of other cool things.

Aspen E5 has a DG with a  CDI. 

Yes you don’t think there’s a difference. Or it’s basically he same thing.  Even Aspen doesn’t agree with that. You believe what you want. 

 

Hey look a CDI.... but yeah what’s the difference. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by jetdriven

[Marauder]

16 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

 

Yes you don’t think there’s a difference. Or it’s basically he same thing.  Even Aspen doesn’t agree with that. You believe what you want. 

 

Hey look a CDI.... but yeah what’s the difference. 

Nice Swiss watch!

[gsxrpilot]

3 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

Mein gott in himmel. It makes me wonder how i ever managed to fly VERY HARD ifr approaches using just an adf  non bearing pointer or if i was lucky an ILS with a bog standard vor/glideslope indicator.  

Minimums dont change because you have a HSI  

if you cant work out your wind correction angle without something telling you what it is then in my book you need to go and check out with a cfi and remember how to do it.   Surely you do partial panel down to minimums as well without your HSI at least once a year for your renewal?  

 

I got my Instrument rating with a VOR and an ADF, and certainly know how to use them. But an HSI definitely makes it more enjoyable so that's one of the reasons my 252 has an Aspen PFD Pro, (which has an HSI), and yet is still wearing it's original paint.

And since I get my minimum 6+1 in every six months, there is no yearly renewal required.

[Marauder]

I love the passion here! You guys would argue over the composition of pure water.

From my knowledge of what I see, the E5 is a bit of an enigma. It has a CDI but not overlaid directly on the face of the DG. There is more to an HSI than just the course indicator, it is also able to provide reverse sensing and present it correctly. Not sure the E5 does that. On an HSI, there are the 45 degree intercept markers, which are on the E5 but since the CDI portion is not part of the actual indicator on the face, there would be some mental gymnastics involved translating the horizontal course indicator on the bottom to intercepts.

I'm curious how much functionality they built into the box. On my Aspen HSI, I have a bunch of other things that it does that I can't determine whether the E5 does it (BTW -- I know the G5 doesn't either). These include waypoint information, the VSI, winds aloft and message indicator from the GPS to name a few.

Edited April 7, 2018 by Marauder

[NJMac]

Before this morning i would have never believed the HSI was that important. But i was safety pilot for a friend flying an ILS behind his aspen pro with the HSI. i was blown away how easy that makes the ILS. I won't get into the weeds about what the E5 has but ill say after flying with his i wont put anything but a pro in mine.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[jazztheglass]

So in reading this discussion, apart from the humor, hair splitting, and passion, I am leaning more toward the G5 than the E5.  Anyone feel the same way?

[aviatoreb]

On 4/6/2018 at 8:50 PM, Marauder said:

I love the passion here! You guys would argue over the composition of pure water.

 

Water consists of electrons, positrons and neutrons.

[ArtVandelay]

Water consists of electrons, positrons and neutrons.

Positrons?

It’s Protons, positrons are antimatter.
Also the quantity of neutrons varies depending on the isotope of hydrogen.

We could have an argument about it I guess?

[ArtVandelay]

So in reading this discussion, apart from the humor, hair splitting, and passion, I am leaning more toward the G5 than the E5.  Anyone feel the same way?

If you want AOA, SV, or need it to provide attitude info to an analog AP, get the Aspen.
If not, G5 is less expensive to buy and install.
I believe SV is eye candy and AOA display is a toy unless it has audio alerts, so I went with G5s.

[PTK]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

...We could have an argument about it I guess?

No argument necessary because there's no such thing as pure water. But I suppose we'll argue anyway! That's what we do best!  

The water molecule by it's polar nature and its ability to bond through H bonds makes it impossible to be "pure." We can approach absolute purity in the laboratory but can never achieve it.

Pure water doesn't exist. 

[Oscar Avalle]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

If you want AOA, SV, or need it to provide attitude info to an analog AP, get the Aspen.
If not, G5 is less expensive to buy and install.
I believe SV is eye candy and AOA display is a toy unless it has audio alerts, so I went with G5s.

I really like the integration I get from in my ASPEN PRO.

[aviatoreb]

4 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Positrons?

It’s Protons, positrons are antimatter.
Also the quantity of neutrons varies depending on the isotope of hydrogen.

We could have an argument about it I guess?

Doh - I KNOW that.... I must have been sleepy when I wrote that?!!! This is a case of trying to be funny-clever but instead just being stupid - doh! Its sort of a typo-name word-transposition thing I just did there.  I know exactly what a positron is.  They are cool...  who doesn't like anti-matter?  The anti-matter variant of the electron.

Let me admit stupidity and correct my statement. Joke. Water -  Electrons, protons and neutrons.

Forgive me Mooney friends.  If you have too many positrons in your plane- run for the hills - its gonna explode - fast and big!

Neutrons Im sticking with - since a bit of heavy water must be in there.

Edited April 8, 2018 by aviatoreb

[PTK]

4 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

The first line here is the important one as per my first mail, linking into legacy analogue stuff is what Garmin DOES NOT do very well if at all.  We have to make sure that anything we put in our planes connects with everything in the future.  Locking yourself into one manufacturer that does not freely allow others to connect to it, is asking for trouble.  

And short of looking in a crystal ball, how do you propose we make sure anything we put in our planes [today] connects with everything in the future? 

I think as the landscape evolves and settles this may happen more and more but it may not. It's not there yet.

But the bigger question is this: is it really that important? As long as you have vendors that can seriously compete, and by that I mean offer us options, I don't see it as a big deal. For example today we have Garmin. Why not have another "Garmin?" What are the other vendors doing besides complain? As long as other vendors stand on their own two feet and flood the market with products without depending on Garmin, the end result is the same, i.e. increased competition. I see Dynon moving in that direction and it's very encouraging. They need to carry the ball all the way and complete the puzzle so we don't need to look to G for pieces. 

The problem as I see it is one of competition. Or lack thereof. No one puts up any real competition to Garmin.

[Marauder]

Positrons?

It’s Protons, positrons are antimatter.
Also the quantity of neutrons varies depending on the isotope of hydrogen.

We could have an argument about it I guess?

Thank you. You proved my point. Even water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[ArtVandelay]

The water molecule by it's polar nature and its ability to bond through H bonds makes it impossible to be "pure." We can approach absolute purity in the laboratory but can never achieve it.
Pure water doesn't exist. 

In mass quantities yeah but I’m sure there is free water molecules around, even outside the laboratory.

[aviatoreb]

43 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Thank you. You proved my point. Even water.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

I am very happy to oblige.

[Marauder]

47 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

Ok here goes for all of you......  first point.

the one thing that history has taught us is that we dont learn from history.  

History has taught the IT industry that closed technology and connectivity limits development.  IBM, Microsoft and apple are good examples of this.   

The way to make sure you dont get caught in the trap is to look closely at what the products can connect to, for example, will they connect to your legacy King VOR indicator, or do you need theirs to connect to, etc.  If it uses its own proprietary connectivity system or "promises you everything" in future releases then you know NOT to buy it.  A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.  Also remember this, as i said before its all software now so the golden rule applies...

whats the differnce between a software salesman and a second hand car salesman?  The car salesman knows he is talking bullshit.  

Peter, you are a dentist and from what i understand not too bad at it either.  I have 30 years experience dealing with software, and IT infrastructure and am also not too bad at it either.  Hence im trying to help everyone here when they are buying this stuff that they dont get trapped.  IBM used to stand for Ive Been Mugged, ! 

My experience is from the electronics hardware side of things. The biggest issue I see is how far these avionics manufacturers will go to address the market needs versus locking out and keeping everything propriety. Imagine how irritated you would be if you needed to buy USB or SD chips unique to your PC or Mac. A good example was the G500/Aspen situation back in 2011. The GAD-43e was not introduced yet and it limited what you could connect to the G500. Aspen on the other hand allowed legacy avionics connectivity through the ACU and it allowed owners to connect their older avionics to it. 

Competition in this market place is a good thing for us the consumer.