Aspen Evolution 5?

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

but with the 100 interface i get GPSS steering

Andrew, you get GPSS steering without the EA100. The EA100 allows you to ditch the reliance on the "fine swiss watch" KI 25x AI that needs frequent 2AMU fixing to drive the K(r)AP autopilots.

[PTK]

3 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

First off, im an Ex CIO for fortune 50 companies, and this is ALL software and interfaces, so right up my street, as well as @Oldguy.  So my first rule is never go down the closed interface router, which tends to be Garmins approach.  Ive seen that with IBM, Apple, Microsoft and im tired of the "oh you want that to talk to that, well we have closed architecture so im afraid you have to buy our box". Having said that....

The E5 is a faster processor and refresh rate against the existing Aspen boxes, and you can just upgrade via a software update.  With the 100 interface it will interface happily with the AP and other non digital stuff.  It has glideslope and Localiser loaded as standard.  Is it an HSI, well you could argue it is to a point, but not to another.   When installing it, if you want the pro later in life then make sure it is all wired up at the install point for this, this will save future install costs. With two of them i can remove my AI and vacuum system.

Regarding APs, if your AP is crap, then this wont help you, but with the 100 interface i get GPSS steering, and later when King bring out te digital upgrade slide in replacement to my AP i can slide in the new digital box, and remove the AI as that is all that the ap needs.  

Garmin on the other hand make this process far more difficult and are not showing a clear upgrade path, unlike Aspen.  

Andrew, where did you see that the E5 is a faster processor and refresh rate than the old Aspen boxes? Would you please post a link with those details?

Also where did you see that it’s an HSI? Would you please post link?

[jetdriven]

7 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

From my avionics guy at Gama Aviaiton.

"Dear Andrew,

 I have had confirmed that the new Aspen unit (E5) has a better resolution screen, new processor and a backup battery, amongst other hardware/technical changes to the older units. Exciting news!

 I am still only receiving limited information from Aspen themselves but our guy on the inside at AEA in Vegas is returning next week, and he has promised to share all he knows about the subject!"

also read it in flying and plane and pilot.

Re HSI look at it, and it looks just like my King HSI, VOR/LOC and also has glideslope as well, thats in the documentation and also again in the flight reviews form Flying and Plane and Pilot..

Andrew

 

it doenst have the HSI, it has a DG.  The HSI unlock is several thousand $$.    This unit looks like a freshened up VFR Aspen unit, on those, you pay 7K to upgrade it to the Pro 1000 standard.

Upgradeable – affordably add HSI and other features such as ADS-B, Angle of Attack, Synthetic Vision and Hazard Awareness with an easy upgrade path that leverages your Evolution E5 investment without unit replacement

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[jetdriven]

Avidyne has its own problems,  For me the lack of auto zoom, and no altitudes on the Class B rings were first and foremost. And after all those data fields crowd the screen, the map is smaller than an iPhone 5... Hence need for a iPad to get the whole picture.  Anyways, not shil;l;ing for Garmin here, but they are the market leader for a reason.

[jetdriven]

1 minute ago, Hyett6420 said:

but your King HSI right now does not REALLY function the same way as the HSI in a glass cockpit, ie it will have a VOR on it and a glideslope, but no ADF input, no second VOR etc.  Thats what i was getting at.  im not saying its a full blown Airline level HSI like the pro mfd.

the Aspen E5 doesnt even have the CDI presented on the DG, which is the essence of an HSI.  The old school SN3308 does this pretty well.

[jetdriven]

1 minute ago, Hyett6420 said:

they are market leaders because they were first, no other reason.  first one in gets 70% of market, standard marketing rules.  I just DO NOT like to be held to ransom by a manufacturer.

I dont either but after considering all the options, we went with them for the GPS and TXP.  Betting against the market doesnt end well for the Narco and Apollo GX60 and KLN-89B users.

The iFD540 was the first real competition in the big-box GPS navigator market. However, its unfinished, its not the consumer grade tiles menu of the GTN (which i dont care for) but its not intuitive.  and they've been resting on their box for 6-8 years now. No follow-on product except the iFD-550, a spiffed up 540 with AHRS.  Nice, but no innovation here. They have no flight display options. No autopilot, their DFC90 was superior technology but they wasted the opportunity.

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[jetdriven]

2 minutes ago, Hyett6420 said:

but Garmin are ONLY just coming to the table with the G5, so as yet are not market leaders in that area.  Ill take the aspen over a G5 any day, a G500 however is a different animal but at a seriously inflated price, and again closed loop.

As soon as ther GFC500 600 autopilots start shipping in large numbers they will own the small display segment, and the autopilot segment, and they already own the navigator segment.  Im an observer here, I wish for more competition but the competition cant seem to sense the urgency of the matter and get off their asses and start shipping product.  TruTrack, Dynon, etc yes these guys are going to lose.

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[jetdriven]

The Garmin autopilot will be cheaper than these retrofits because the autopilot resides in the G5, and it uses a CAN bus for data.  simpler wiring. The KFC200 is a fine unit but its old, it has many components,and they're all getting old.  New Aerocruze head unit and KI-300 AI this year (same cost as the whole G5/GFC-500 kit), new servos the next, new KG102 gyro the year after.  some wiring issues in between.

[ArtVandelay]

i disagree, as to change the ap you have to remove the servos as well as the stuff in the cockpit.  That is SERIOUSLY expensive, i personally think that if Garmin, Aspen, Avidyne, whoever came up with a "slide in" digital replacement box for existing Ap's then they would have a large market.  King for example are doing that with their legacy ap's but at a silly price.

There is no way to do a slide in replacing an analog with digital AP. STEC 3100 does reuse the servos but even then it’s more expensive than the GFC500 with new servos.

[Jerry 5TJ]

Just now, Hyett6420 said:

i disagree, as to change the ap you have to remove the servos as well as the stuff in the cockpit.  That is SERIOUSLY expensive, i personally think that if Garmin, Aspen, Avidyne, whoever came up with a "slide in" digital replacement box for existing Ap's then they would have a large market.  King for example are doing that with their legacy ap's but at a silly price.

It is the servos I’m looking forward to replacing.  The KFC225 is a fine system, although it hasn’t had a FW upgrade in ~14 years, but the servos appear to be the reliability weak points.  

Its “big brother” KFC325 with its “soft ride” feature may baby the servos better.  If a slide-in replacement claimed to extend servo life I’d listen.   

[MIm20c]

42 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

the Aspen E5 doesnt even have the CDI presented on the DG, which is the essence of an HSI.  The old school SN3308 does this pretty well.

The base E5 does have the cdi nav interface very similar to the picture you have above. 

[jetdriven]

How is it similar?

a CDI bar across the bottom and a DG isnt an HSI. 

[MIm20c]

1 minute ago, jetdriven said:

How is it similar?

a CDI bar across the bottom and a DG isnt an HSI. 

It has a cdi display that looks like a 209/106. Never said it was an hsi. 

[jetdriven]

This is what you get. 

[Marauder]

It is clear what Garmin is doing. They introduced the G5 to take on Aspen, Sandia and L-3 and anyone else who sells lower cost partial solutions. Aspen responded with the E5 (ever wonder why they selected "E5" as the name?) to counter the G5. The main difference is that if you can't afford a full blown Aspen PFD, this is a stepping stone program to allow you to purchase features later on. 

Garmin doesn't have an upgrade path. It is not in their best interest to add too much to the G5 functionality because it could impact their G500 sales. Competition is good for us...

[KSMooniac]

I was hoping their single screen G500TXi would be the competitor, but it came in at a price that is too high for many of us in the CB camp. Perhaps the G3X will be blessed for us this summer since Dynon is now a player in this space. Aspen can remain competitive with their Pro unit using newer/faster/better processor and screen but retaining their overall form factor. A larger unit with the same design would be nice too, IMO. They might have to lower the price to fit below Dynon, though,

Sent from my LG-US996 using Tapatalk

[PTK]

2 hours ago, Hyett6420 said:

From my avionics guy at Gama Aviaiton.

"Dear Andrew,

 I have had confirmed that the new Aspen unit (E5) has a better resolution screen, new processor and a backup battery, amongst other hardware/technical changes to the older units. Exciting news!

 I am still only receiving limited information from Aspen themselves but our guy on the inside at AEA in Vegas is returning next week, and he has promised to share all he knows about the subject!"

also read it in flying and plane and pilot.

Re HSI look at it, and it looks just like my King HSI, VOR/LOC and also has glideslope as well, thats in the documentation and also again in the flight reviews form Flying and Plane and Pilot..

Andrew

 

And your avionics guy confirmed this how?? Be specific with details please. If Aspen had newer processor why would they keep it a secret? I have two calls out to the rep. Not one but two calls. He has not returned any.

And no HSI. It’s a DG.

[jackn]

Aspen has a new press release on their website. They say it has a better processor with faster graphics refresh rate. 

Im not saying I totally believe them, but there you have it. 

 

[gsxrpilot]

20 minutes ago, jackn said:

Aspen has a new press release on their website. They say it has a better processor with faster graphics refresh rate. 

Im not saying I totally believe them, but there you have it. 

I would bet the statement has to be true. The original processors wouldn't be available any longer. Chips keep getting faster and the old chips quickly become unavailable.

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

This is what you get. 

On one of the product spec sheets (before the link was removed from BT by aspen) it had (IIRC) pictures of the dg with a superimposed cdi (vertical and horizontal lines) over the center.  I thought it was very unique and beneficial if you had two aspen screens. One hsi and one cdi next to each other vs two hsi units side by side. 

Everyone keeps calling the base display a simple DG but in my opinion it provides a lot more situational awareness. It will be auto slewing, has the blue diamond (desired track), has the CRS and heading bugs, gpss, etc. If a pilot is having a problem visualizing the bottom cdi vs a traditional hsi they need more training.  

IMO aspen DG is FAR superior to a BK 525. 

Also on approach the cdi for horizontal and vertical navigation is right on the AI which is a really convenient place for it. 

[Marauder]

5 minutes ago, MIm20c said:

On one of the product spec sheets (before the link was removed from BT by aspen) it had (IIRC) pictures of the dg with a superimposed cdi (vertical and horizontal lines) over the center.  I thought it was very unique and beneficial if you had two aspen screens. One hsi and one cdi next to each other vs two hsi units side by side. 

Everyone keeps calling the base display a simple DG but in my opinion it provides a lot more situational awareness. It will be auto slewing, has the blue diamond (desired track), has the CRS and heading bugs, gpss, etc. If a pilot is having a problem visualizing the bottom cdi vs a traditional hsi they need more training.  

IMO aspen DG is FAR superior to a BK 525. 

Also on approach the cdi for horizontal and vertical navigation is right on the AI which is a really convenient place for it. 

One thing I see that is missing is the map under the DG section. And it doesn't look like it does auto slewing as well. Wonder if a POH is available for it.

 

[MIm20c]

5 minutes ago, Marauder said:

One thing I see that is missing is the map under the DG section. And it doesn't look like it does auto slewing as well. Wonder if a POH is available for it.

 

No map for sure. (I’m only guessing) The auto slewing would only show on a gps source not a vloc, I think they will include it.  IMO giving the majority of the hsi info especially if using gps navigation (normally to a location). 

[jetdriven]

it may show the course pointer as pictured from their website shows but that is not an HSI, its a DG with a CDI bar at the bottom. Try to intercept an ILS while looking at that skinny CDI bar at the bottom, my WX-1000 has that.  its good for SA but not for IFR hand flying. If you think thats good enough then great. But not for me.

Its not an HSI.  The buyers for your plane will know that, too. And paying 6K for a full-on software upgrade to the PRO 1000 is more expensive than just buying it that way.  Which brings us back to the 11,000$ Aspen, which is where we were 8 years ago.

from BT, a real GFC-500 dual G5 setup.  Here you go.  Flight Director. Real LPV with auto-trim coupled to mins.  Real HSI.. E5 Aspen cant do any of this,  the PRO costs a lot more.   https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=151318&view=unread#unread

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven

[Marauder]

it may show the course pointer as pictured from their website shows but that is not an HSI, its a DG with a CDI bar at the bottom. Try to intercept an ILS while looking at that skinny CDI bar at the bottom, my WX-1000 has that.  its good for SA but not for IFR hand flying. If you think thats good enough then great. But not for me.
Its not an HSI.  The buyers for your plane will know that, too. And paying 6K for a full-on software upgrade to the PRO 1000 is more expensive than just buying it that way.  Which brings us back to the 11,000$ Aspen, which is where we were 8 years ago.

I’m not sure how much time you have with these glass panels, but I find the vertical and horizontal indicators on the AI are excellent for tracking precision approaches. I believe the E5’s AI shows these (at least on the picture posted).




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[jetdriven]

Theyre great for that, but you need the HSI CDI bar to view your wind correction angle and to intercept the course. Enroute is one thing, but an approach is another.  There's a reason why all those HSI's are out there, and those jet airplanes have this presentation. The FD helps greatly in this area but the ND also has a large magena line you keep vertical on the approach.

Edited April 6, 2018 by jetdriven