No good deed goes unpunished

[Bartman]

I have a friend who is looking for his first purchase.  He expressed interest in Mooney, even pointed out the value n the early fleet, and hinted that he need some help in his search. Although I wanted to help I resisted for about 2 months, but after seeing him look for that "bargain" I finally helped him in his search and pointed out a few decent E, F and J candidates and some suggestions for PPI.  Now the problem is I find myself looking at the turbocharged and turbonormalized Moonies, especially those with ice protection.  I have been happy with my J and even took steps toward panel upgrades, but having to drive a couple of times lately pisses me off. Not bad stuff, just flying thru a couple thousand feet layer into clear sky but I'd have to go thru the freezing level and it violates my personal minimums.  Not only useful in the climb, but an unexpected IFR approach could extend time in the soup so turbo up with TKS and I could extend my flying by at least a couple of weeks on either end of winter and even add altitude options in the remainder of the year.

No good deed goes unpunished and If I don't come to my senses this is gonna cost me more than him, so that's the last time I help someone search.

Probably cheaper just to move South. 

[smccray]

3 minutes ago, Bartman said:

I have a friend who is looking for his first purchase.  He expressed interest in Mooney, even pointed out the value n the early fleet, and hinted that he need some help in his search. Although I wanted to help I resisted for about 2 months, but after seeing him look for that "bargain" I finally helped him in his search and pointed out a few decent E, F and J candidates and some suggestions for PPI.  Now the problem is I find myself looking at the turbocharged and turbonormalized Moonies, especially those with ice protection.  I have been happy with my J and even took steps toward panel upgrades, but having to drive a couple of times lately pisses me off. Not bad stuff, just flying thru a couple thousand feet layer into clear sky but I'd have to go thru the freezing level and it violates my personal minimums.  Not only useful in the climb, but an unexpected IFR approach could extend time in the soup so turbo up with TKS and I could extend my flying by at least a couple of weeks on either end of winter and even add altitude options in the remainder of the year.

No good deed goes unpunished and If I don't come to my senses this is gonna cost me more than him, so that's the last time I help someone search.

Probably cheaper just to move South. 

Come on down to Texas!!!

[MIm20c]

Been spending some time on BT lately. Very dangerous to look at all the pressurized aircraft selling for reasonable dollars (purchase cost). Turbo Commanders have peaked my interest lately.  I guess I can sleep in the plane with the dog after the wife kicks me out or I have to sell the house to cover an overhaul. 

[jetdriven]

Those Garrett turbines  really are almost zero maintenance.  The ones with a 5000 TBO anyway. But still, with that, the “affordable turbines” thread on BT shows guys paying 100-200k a year to care and feed one. The meridian is a little cheaper on maintenance but the cap cost of a 1.5M airplane makes it expensive too. Figure 1000$ an hour. 

[L. Trotter]

A turbo charged Mooney with TKS is a very capable machine for year around flying. As you might expect there will be rare days when all general aviation aircraft should stay on the ground. Sure, a pressurized cabin and turbo prop would be nice until it comes time for annual and engine replacement/overhaul. It's hard to beat the utility and economics of owning a Mooney.

[Bartman]

Ok, so I reversed the situation. I took said prospective Mooney buyer up today to demonstrate the capabilities of the J.  We stayed down low in the turbulence at 3,500 and bounced around for an hour before stopping for lunch at the destination. On the way back, we climbed above the scattered layer to clear skies, and cruised with a nice tailwind at 8.8gph LOP at 170kts in smooth air at 6,500.  Let him take the controls for a bit and immediately he remarked just how solid they felt so I explained the push tubes vs cables and cranks.  Now he is really sold on the Mooney, and I just happen to know one that might come up for sale shortly.

[Guest]

Be sure to tell him about leaking fuel tanks, corroded spars, corroded steel structure and the need for a thorough PPI.

Clarence

[mike_elliott]

58 minutes ago, Bartman said:

8.8gph LOP at 170kts

WOW,  I didnt think 170 TAS was possible in a J LOP. I have flown a few fast ones, best I could muster is 160TAS on 8.5 LOP in the best of about 4 dozen. I gotta fly this one!

 

[Bartman]

Ground speed of course, but the Piper trainers won't even come close to that unless you have one hell of a tailwind. This is all new for him but he is interested, motivated, has the means, and will purchase something soon. I introduced him to a decent reliable J. He asked me to give him a price but I told him he needs to think about it, research other prospects, and then we will talk about it. He needs to make an informed decision and I'm in no hurry. 

[Bartman]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Be sure to tell him about leaking fuel tanks, corroded spars, corroded steel structure and the need for a thorough PPI.

Clarence

I told him about all of that and a whole lot more including prop hub AD's, engine hours and time in service, hours per year, camshaft corrosion, Avionics including panel niceties and nececssities, ADSB, tank reseal vs bladder,  corrosion, gear and landing disc maintenance, steel roll cage corrosion, jack screw, and wear in the tail feathers.  All of thes things and many more I learned right here from you and others on Mooneyspace.  We also discussed that's why the Moonies he had been looking at have been priced where they are. 

I saved less controversial topics such as ROP vs LOP and touch and go's for another day. 

[Bartman]

10 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Just tell him to buy a Comanche.  I hear they are the bomb!

I'm sure the Comanche 400 is a fabulous ride, but one must get used to 9gph before one can appreciate 18gph can do for you. 

[BradB]

Tell him to buy my Acclaim and use it or a few years or forever. ADSB done.  Everything up to date.    A PA46T goes into prebuy for me now .  

I love my Acclaim.  I love flying high and fast.   It is very rare to cancel a flight it can’t safely handle.  Put on the O2, climb and go   

My my girlfriend hates ice, clouds, and wearing oxygen.   My daughter tolerates all of the above.   I did the math.  PA46T is worth it for me.   Maybe my daughter will be more interested in Aviation rather than just viewing it as another car ride.   I love seeing her face she ‘flys’ the plane.  

 

[Bartman]

Alright just so you know this has gotten out of control. I told the wife about considering selling the J and she says she had actually been thinking the same thing. We have flown 1TF for over 10 years and she has been a great ride and we have been loyal caretakers. She is Ok with trade up for a turbo and TKS and has seen the decision making process enough that she understands the utility. However, she only asked one question.  "Will the new airplane have two doors?" 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Bartman said:

she only asked one question.  "Will the new airplane have two doors?" 

It will if you buy a U! It'll climb almost as well as an older TC bird, at least up to 12,000 or so.

[thinwing]

On 11/22/2017 at 8:28 PM, BradB said:

Tell him to buy my Acclaim and use it or a few years or forever. ADSB done.  Everything up to date.    A PA46T goes into prebuy for me now .  

I love my Acclaim.  I love flying high and fast.   It is very rare to cancel a flight it can’t safely handle.  Put on the O2, climb and go   

My my girlfriend hates ice, clouds, and wearing oxygen.   My daughter tolerates all of the above.   I did the math.  PA46T is worth it for me.   Maybe my daughter will be more interested in Aviation rather than just viewing it as another car ride.   I love seeing her face she ‘flys’ the plane.  

 

How did you decide between the jetprop conversion and the Meridian?

[BradB]

19 hours ago, thinwing said:

How did you decide between the jetprop conversion and the Meridian?

 

I went back and forth.  The JetProp seems to have the better engine choices.   But the airframes are getting older and the prices really are not any cheaper than getting the factory version from Piper.   There are a ton of little things that could make one better than the other.  In the end, I looked at what was available and picked what I thought was the best value for me at the time.   Had that been a JetProp, I would not have been opposed.   An engine that spins and pressurization was the goal.  But @Bartman it will still only have one door.

 

Brad

[MIm20c]

2 hours ago, BradB said:

 But @Bartman it will still only have one door.

That’s not a door it’s a damn airstair, my wife would be thrilled!

[bradp]

 

@BradB how’d you decide on the PA46T vs an older TBM?  If I’m not mistaken most of your flying is with 2 or 3 on board?  UL seems to be the biggest balancing point for that airframe.  If you have your average weight and trip length defined it seems perfect for certain missions - but is not a “hauler” by any means.  

I also wonder why all the SETPs have Pratt’s and no Garret’s represented in that grouping...

Anyone want to bolt on a -10 to my J airframe and call it a day ;-)

[BradB]

@bradp The cost to feed and maintain a TBM scared me away.  I’d have to go pretty old on the TBM to afford to buy and have money left to maintain and fly it.

My main flight is 400nm with just me or me and my 12 yo daughter.   Occasionally there is one more.  Rarely, me +4.   None of my passengers weighs over 105 lbs.   I do.   The Meridian is about perfect for my needs.   A TBM would be super nice, but more expensive for extra capability that I wouldn’t often use.

Brad

Edited November 30, 2017 by BradB

[N6758N]

On 11/29/2017 at 2:03 PM, MIm20c said:

That’s not a door it’s a damn airstair, my wife would be thrilled!

Only as long as she doesn't have to climb up front with you. Getting into the cockpit of the PA-46 is a huge PITA! And working under the panel, well that is another level of difficulty. 

[Bartman]

Final decision.  After looking at several options I have decided to keep what I have for now and proceed with some panel upgrades and ADSb compliance.  I did it the first time, but now I refuse to finance even a penny on a used Mooney so I'm gonna stash some more cash and watch for the right 252 with TKS to come along.  Who knows, by then I may get over the itch to trade and have a pile of cash too.

And I think my friend has found a decent Mooney and is headed for pre-buy armed with little experience, but lots of information and a list of things to check.

[jaylw314]

6 minutes ago, Bartman said:

Final decision.  After looking at several options I have decided to keep what I have for now and proceed with some panel upgrades and ADSb compliance.  I did it the first time, but now I refuse to finance even a penny on a used Mooney so I'm gonna stash some more cash and watch for the right 252 with TKS to come along.  Who knows, by then I may get over the itch to trade and have a pile of cash too.

And I think my friend has found a decent Mooney and is headed for pre-buy armed with little experience, but lots of information and a list of things to check.

Aw dang, I was hoping to get a vicarious thrill out of spending your money on a new plane! 

Hope to see your friend here soon!