About time I fessed up

[steingar]

August 2016 I was delivering my Mooney M20c to my mechanic, Bobby Norman, at the Parr airport (42I) in Zanesville Ohio. I had interaction with Bobby years ago, and he came highly recommended by a number of local Mooney owners.  I had thought the field was about 2300 feet (wrong, more on that later) so coming in over the trees I pulled the power to idle, put it in a forward slip and came down.  75mph over the numbers, flared and BANG!.  Hardest landing I'd ever done in anything.  At the top of the bounce I had a choice, and decided to ride it out. I was uncomfortable trying to go around at a short strip in that predicament.  The aircraft bounced a couple more times and stopped, and I taxied back.  I had struck the prop in that landing, quite badly.

The prop was bent asymmetrically, and the craskshaft busted.  I hit hard enough that the force went through the gear into the Johnson bar, wrecking the mechanism that holds it in place (Bobby only figured that part out when he started taxiing.  He said it was quite exciting).

It took 9 months for the tear down, prop repair, and everything else.  The engine repairs were done by a very reputable shop, and the aircraft is now back in service.  I just did the first oil change after the teardown.  I would have overhauled the engine at this juncture, but it only had 700 hours, and I didn't have the money.

What I did wrong:  The first thing is entirely insidious.  I should have checked the length of the field, since it is now a very comfortable 3k feet.  Why didn't I?  Because the last time I was there it was 2300 feet!  Hardest thing in the world is to override personal experience, but sometimes we really have to.

Of course, the other big thing was pulling the power over the trees.  Once I got into the runway environment the aircraft didn't have the energy to overcome the sink.  Why pull power?  Normally in this situation I maintain 12-13" manifold pressure, and use a forward slip.  Indeed, most of my landings done this way are well within 2K feet.  So why did I change?  Worry about a field that I thought (incorrectly) was short.  Even if it was 2300, I could have landed the Mooney in it just following my normal procedures.  Talk about rubbing salt in the wound.

What I did right: riding it out and letting it settle turned out to be the perfect move.  I had an asymmetric prop, a badly damaged engine, and I was at a somewhat short and very narrow strip surrounded by hills and mountains.  I don't know what would have happened had I put in the power, but it wouldn't have been good.   Sometimes its just better not to add extra energy to a bad situation.  Perhaps if you don't you'll prang the airplane, but if you do you get to be the one pranged.  I recall a fatal TBM accident nearly identical to mine, the aircraft landed hard and struck the prop.  The only difference is that guy put in the power at the top of the bounce, and now he's dead.

I can't put into words what this did to me. If you noticed me gone for an extended period, its because I couldn't show my face after this.  I think one thing might give you an idea, today is the first day I'm thinking I'll actually stick with this aviation thing.  I've sort of been on the fence thinking about bailing for the last year.

With any luck this will help someone not make the mistake I did.  At least it had one silver lining.  Hopefully I'll never say I landed worse.

[Cruiser]

Somethings getting all out in the open helps. It sounds like you have a solid grip on your flying. Things happen.

I have had the good fortune to be sitting in on some hangar flying with the "senior" pilots at my home airport. I am sure there is some embellishment over the years but, most of these guys should not be here now. The stories are truly amazing. 

Someday you will get to sit at the coffee table at your home airport and tell your stories. I hope this is the most exciting one you get to experience.

[DXB]

OMG- sorry to hear. Painful experience to say the least.  Thanks for sharing and glad you're sticking with it.

I have a couple of landings that might have gone this bad but luckily didn't break the plane. 

I'm surprised it would sink that hard if you flared at 75. Too much nose up?  Did you have full flaps? 

I've gotten in the habit of putting back in a touch of power when I raise the nose if I cross the threshold near 70 at a short field.  Otherwise I try to keep it just under 80 over the numbers. 

[M20S Driver]

Thanks for sharing this.

[Jsavage3]

Steingar, it took courage to share your story and you've earned my respect for that fact alone! I've been into the Parr airport many times and Bob Norman was my mechanic for quite some time (and yes, he's a great mechanic!). I completely agree, the Parr airport is challenging, especially in a Mooney! At 3,100 feet, obstacles on the east end, very narrow with a fairly significant hump in the middle...well, it's do-able, but it's a handfull for sure! I commend you for sharing your story and in so doing helping us all perhaps avoid a similar situation...because let's face it, it can happen to any of us! Blue skies to you and yours!

[carusoam]

Welcome out in the open, Steingar!

Hopefully your shared experience sparks some conversation and thoughts.

What prop did you go with this time?

Best regards,

-a-

[N252WD]

I like the story, congrats on working as well as you did. I have bounce down a runway before when I trying to find the best landing speed for mine. Found out 80 is the magic number for me. I'm based out of KCXO and I listen to the hanger stories myself and once told that a guy bought a Mooney and landed on rwy 19 at CXO, landed before the rwy and bounced all the way down and stop past the rwy right before the trees. Its a 5000' rwy. Most people I talked to about Mooney's before I got mine was not to do it. My first ride was with David Mcgee in a rocket. I was sold every since. People now ask me about Mooney's, I tell them, you have to stay in front of it and fly by the numbers. Wouldn't change now for any other plane out there.

[BKlott]

An Instructor once told me that any landing that you can walk away from is a good landing. That would make all of your landings good ones.

[1964-M20E]

Yes you could have made some better decisions by your own admission.  We have all done that in the past sometimes with more forgiving results.  The end of the day you safely landed the plane without injuries to you or anyone else except maybe your pride.  So for that well done and kudos for having the courage to share.

I guess the silver lining was you were already at the field with your mechanic.

[ArtVandelay]

2 hours ago, DXB said:

OMG- sorry to hear. Painful experience to say the least.  Thanks for sharing and glad you're sticking with it.

I have a couple of landings that might have gone this bad but luckily didn't break the plane. 

I'm surprised it would sink that hard if you flared at 75. Too much nose up?  Did you have full flaps? 

I've gotten in the habit of putting back in a touch of power when I raise the nose if I cross the threshold near 70 at a short field.  Otherwise I try to keep it just under 80 over the numbers. 

I would not count on the airspeed indicator being perfectly accurate, his 75 may be 72, yours may be 78.

[Bartman]

About 9 years ago I bounced my J down the runway at KCRG "trying to get it on the ground quick" before a TS rolled in. The lady in the tower said she was" becoming concerned".  I tried to fool me and my wife into believing it was wind gust, but we both knew better.  I got lucky that time, but got quickly got some landing instruction from a CFI who owns and flies a Mooney. 

If you have not already done so, get some Mooney specific instruction. Add that to the list of "what I did right".

[steingar]

4 hours ago, DXB said:

I'm surprised it would sink that hard if you flared at 75. Too much nose up?  Did you have full flaps? 

Surprised me too, but that's what it does.  I always land with full flaps and did that time.  I don't think it was the flair itself, it is possible I was a bit high, but I doubt it was by much.  I've done landing where I had too much nose up, a bit of power smooths those right out.

i still think that at 75 mph I just didn't have the energy to stop the sink in the flair.  These days I keep the power in until the runway environment, and the habit serves me well. But I certainly don't have the confidence to land a 2K strip.

if someone thinks I'm wrong about this I'd love to hear about it. I truly want to be the best pilot I can. This incident shook my confidence more than any other I've been through.

[steingar]

31 minutes ago, Bartman said:

If you have not already done so, get some Mooney specific instruction. Add that to the list of "what I did right".

I do whenever I can. Did some with Bobby when I got the plane back. There's only one other CFI I know hereabouts who instructs in Mooneys, and I try to fly with him whenever we're both available.

one thing I'd like him to do is teach me power off 180s. I'm not going for my commercial rating, I just think I need to better understand energy management in this aircraft.

[Skates97]

Thanks for sharing. I have read some of your other comments over on POA about your propstrike and wondered what exactly had happened and what went wrong. Your sharing will hopefully help some us to avoid making a similar mistake.

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, steingar said:

i still think that at 75 mph I just didn't have the energy to stop the sink in the flair.  These days I keep the power in until the runway environment, and the habit serves me well. But I certainly don't have the confidence to land a 2K strip.

I really don't think it was energy related, but possibly flaring too high or too low.

My home airport has landing distances of 1900' or 2300', depending on direction.  By myself with full fuel I fly short final at 65mph (with a touch of power in) and I still have enough energy to balloon if I flare too much (ask me how I know that ).  I even have enough energy to flare a second time if I catch a wind gust.

[steingar]

9 hours ago, Andy95W said:

I really don't think it was energy related, but possibly flaring too high or too low.

My home airport has landing distances of 1900' or 2300', depending on direction.  By myself with full fuel I fly short final at 65mph (with a touch of power in) and I still have enough energy to balloon if I flare too much (ask me how I know that ).  I even have enough energy to flare a second time if I catch a wind gust.

I don't want to say anything categorical, since memory of a traumatic incident is never trustworthy.  I've made just about every mistake one can in the Mooney (except land gear up, so far...) and I've flared too high.  Even without adding power I don't hit like that, though those landings can get a bit bouncy if I don't add some power, admittedly.  One thing I'm always entirely reticent to do is push the yoke forward while landing.  I'd just as soon go around.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

I've been learning in my F model for my private.  I took a bunch of lessons and soloed in a Champ but that was with a CFIS at a dirt field so, no radios or procedure.  I'm basically starting over.  Learning energy management in the Champ, was a bear, the mooney is like a dream compared.  So far every landing has stuck, I have no problem holding it off until full stall just above the runway.  That is one of the positive transfers from flying a tail dragger.  I have done all the flying since I started taking lessons, my instructor tried a landing and it was alot smoother touchdown but it started to bounce and then again,  I hollered since I know what my prop clearance is and we went around and I did the landing.  I'll take that 3-9" drop over a porpoise any day.  I do final at 90mph for now.  That is a bit conservative but my home field is 5000' and I don't use too much in the float.  I think a little extra time in the float helps learn how to fly in ground affect anyway.  I did not have a good landing in the champ until I added 10 mph and spent some time flaring.  One flair was too high and the stall horn came on (I don't use Noise Cancelling because my stall horn does not sound through headset) I quickly relaxed on the yoke and let her glide down and then flared again. 

I know there is a good chance I will break my plane one day, that's why I pay that insurance $.  I wouldn't worry about it too much maybe start with a higher speed and then let her sink down into ground affect and keep making approaches pulling speed out until you find an acceptable amount of float (maybe 2 to 4 seconds?)will give you an approach speed independent of your airspeed.  Any extra float is a little buffer (as long as runway permits it) for wind gust, more control, etc.  Thanks for your confession, learning (Especially radio work has been daunting) it';s comforting to know everyone flying did start out perfect.  

Adam

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by Grandmas Flying Couch

[steingar]

Greater speed or more power certainly smooths out landings, but I committed early to flying by the numbers.  My take on this is if I come in fast and take up lots of runway, no harm no foul.  The runways I fly out of are nice and long.  But the first time I need to land shorter I'm going to be in some trouble.  I don't want to be that guy.  I'm already the guy who got a prop strike, its enough for me.

[KLRDMD]

23 hours ago, steingar said:

BANG!.  Hardest landing I'd ever done in anything.  At the top of the bounce I had a choice, and decided to ride it out. I was uncomfortable trying to go around at a short strip in that predicament.  The aircraft bounced a couple more times and stopped, and I taxied back.  I had struck the prop in that landing, quite badly.

What I did right: riding it out and letting it settle turned out to be the perfect move.  

Are you sure the prop strike occurred on the first bounce ? While possible that would be unusual. It is almost always the third bounce that causes a prop strike in a Mooney.

[Yetti]

I would just use it as a lessons learned and not beat yourself up.   Just yesterday it was the choice of at less that 3000 foot runway close to the side of town that I needed to go to or the 5000 foot on the southside of town and a long Uber ride.   I chickened out and went to the long field....   I was off the runway at the 1200 foot taxi way at the long runway.   But hey one less thing to stress about.

Edited October 10, 2017 by Yetti

[steingar]

1 hour ago, KLRDMD said:

Are you sure the prop strike occurred on the first bounce ? While possible that would be unusual. It is almost always the third bounce that causes a prop strike in a Mooney.

Yup.  Saw where the prop dug into the asphalt.  I suspect most of these sorts of incidents are because the pilot tries to force the aircraft down too early, resulting in pilot induced oscillation.  I was holding it off, and I was right on my landing speed.  Would have probably been better to be fast, I could have arrested the sink.

[flyboy0681]

On 10/9/2017 at 4:35 PM, steingar said:

 

It took 9 months for the tear down, prop repair, and everything else.  The engine repairs were done by a very reputable shop, and the aircraft is now back in service.  I just did the first oil change after the teardown.  I would have overhauled the engine at this juncture, but it only had 700 hours, and I didn't have the money.

 

Why nine months??

 

[jaylw314]

19 hours ago, steingar said:

Surprised me too, but that's what it does.  I always land with full flaps and did that time.  I don't think it was the flair itself, it is possible I was a bit high, but I doubt it was by much.  I've done landing where I had too much nose up, a bit of power smooths those right out.

i still think that at 75 mph I just didn't have the energy to stop the sink in the flair.  These days I keep the power in until the runway environment, and the habit serves me well. But I certainly don't have the confidence to land a 2K strip.

if someone thinks I'm wrong about this I'd love to hear about it. I truly want to be the best pilot I can. This incident shook my confidence more than any other I've been through.

I'm not sure I can agree there's not enough energy, and I wonder if you did hit some wind shear close to the ground.  I can recall coming in at 65 KIAS with some passengers and hitting some wind shear just before starting my flare.  We must have dropped the last 50' in 2 seconds.  I hurried the flare just in time to avoid a hard landing (translation--I yanked on the yoke and prayed), and I STILL ended up floating for about 3-4 seconds before touching down.  Ironically, it ended up being a greaser and my passengers didn't know why my face was white when we got out.

In retrospect, my first reaction should have been to add power and go around, but if you were closer to the ground you might not have had time to react anyway.

[Andy95W]

41 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I'm not sure I can agree there's not enough energy, 

I said the same thing yesterday but everyone wants to add 10 mph or so for "safety". 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

I said the same thing yesterday but everyone wants to add 10 mph or so for "safety". 

Yes, you said pretty much the same thing.  Consider mine a message from the department of redundancy department!