First repairs needed

[KLRDMD]

On 7/13/2017 at 6:30 PM, KLRDMD said:

Both the Mooney Pilot Proficiency Program and Beech Pilot Proficiency Program disallow touch and goes. When I do Mooney transition training I do not allow touch and goes.

 

6 hours ago, Cooperd0g said:

Why are they disallowed? 

Risk-benefit. What's the benefit of touch and goes ? You might save a couple of minutes over a full stop taxi-back or you might save a few seconds over a stop and go. Stop and goes are allowed by both organizations. The vast majority of those flying Mooneys or Bonanzas/Baron own them so an extra couple minutes here are there, at essentially an idle power setting isn't costing you anything significant financially.

What's the risk ? Not properly reconfiguring the airplane to include an elevator stall on take-off, inadvertently retracting the gear versus the flaps while reconfiguring the airplane for takeoff.

Other than in training, the average Mooney/Bonanza/Baron pilot doesn't need to do a bunch of landings in a row anyway.

[milotron]

I agree and do full stop/taxi back when I do them. The local flying club has a similar policy on their Seminole, their only retract.

Although I was watching a Canadian Forces CP-140 Aurora ( P-3 Orion south of the border ) doing touch goes the other day at CYYJ. Impressive to say the least; I imagine it really works the crew over doing those.

[Mooneymite]

Haven't we had the touch and go discussion elsewhere very recently, or was that in another life?  

 

[Hank]

50 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Haven't we had the touch and go discussion elsewhere very recently, or was that in another life?  

 

Yes, we have. Very recently.  

Because whenever "touch and go" is mentioned, the same people raise their keyboards and object to them.

I grew up watching all kinds of military jets (single engine, multi engine, single pilot, flight crew, some single pilot with multiengine) doing touch and goes, day and night. Even my mother knows what a touch and go is, and I was happy that she was able to finally experience one while flying with me (at the specific invitation of Approach from an airport I was not flying to).

Do them or not, but please stop beating the dead horse every single time it's mentioned . . . . . . .

[Jim Peace]

7 hours ago, Cooperd0g said:

 I have probably done thousands of touch and go's in retractable gear planes.

Really? Thousands?

[Marauder]

Haven't we had the touch and go discussion elsewhere very recently, or was that in another life?  

 

 

Little does Mooneymite realize, he's entered "The Twilight Zone". That or you're actually dead and in one of of Dante's levels of hell. You know, like the Dante levels for ROP or LOP, full flaps or partial flaps, AOA or no AOA, and my personal favorite level, Aspen versus Garmin. The devil actually joins in on that conversation.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Cooperd0g]

35 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Really? Thousands?

Touch and gos, for sure. I'm a carrier based Navy pilot. Then again, we typically leave the gear down in the landing pattern when doing touch and go practice. 

[Mooneymite]

Okay....I'll say it.

If you can't  safely do touch and goes, your training/experience is lacking.

If you don't do touch and goes for your own, personal reasons, "who am I to judge".

 

[Mooneymite]

2 hours ago, milotron said:

 I imagine it really works the crew over doing those.

No.  I did hundreds...(maybe thousands ) of t&g's flying the P-3.

Easy, peasy....and not a single mis-hap.

It's  a proficiecy maneuver.  I was proficient and my students became proficient...very quickly.  Flaps, trim and go. 

[carusoam]

I think Cooper has possibly ended one of the longest fought out battles in the history of MS...

To TnG or not to TnG...

Pro:

- Economics are good on a per hour basis.

 

Con:

- Simple brain fade aka 'distraction' leads to a GU landing.

 

Pro pilots in the military do TnGs...

- They have assistance supporting them.

- They train, a lot.

- They don't put the gear away!!!!!  

 

Take away the one Direct thing that causes GUs, then GUs can't happen...

The power of MS gets stronger every day.

Welcome aboard Captain @Cooperd0g!

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

2 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

Haven't we had the touch and go discussion elsewhere very recently, or was that in another life?  

 

Yup.  Even had a freakin' poll about it.  And here we are again.

[Cooperd0g]

Sorry guys, I'm new here and looking to buy a Mooney M20C/E/F in the next year. I joined to learn as much as I can. I didn't mean to start something. 

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Jim Peace said:

Really? Thousands?

 

57 minutes ago, Cooperd0g said:

Touch and gos, for sure. I'm a carrier based Navy pilot. Then again, we typically leave the gear down in the landing pattern when doing touch and go practice. 

Cooper- just to get you up to speed, in a previous thread Jim hoped that everyone doing touch and goes would wreck their Mooneys so that his M20C would increase in value.

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

Pro pilots in the military do TnGs...

- They have assistance supporting them.

- They train, a lot.

- They don't put the gear away!!!!! 

Uh......I guess it depends on the aircraft community.  We raised the gear after every go....unless we forgot.  

[Hank]

42 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

Uh......I guess it depends on the aircraft community.  We raised the gear after every go....unless we forgot.  

That's because Naval Aviators are superior pilots, demonstrated by wearing Wings of Gold instead of the tin pieces given out by the other Services . . . .       

[MyNameIsNobody]

Moths to a flame...

[Jim Peace]

15 hours ago, Cooperd0g said:

Touch and gos, for sure. I'm a carrier based Navy pilot. Then again, we typically leave the gear down in the landing pattern when doing touch and go practice. 

I stand corrected.  That is a part of aviation I did not think of....

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/US-Navy-needs-touch-and-go-practice-strip

Thank you for your service....

I was thinking more in line of the average GA owner who flys for fun at maybe 100 hours per year in a single engine piston doing them without too much thought on runway selection by him/herself for no other reason than to save taxi time....

I even said in another thread I did them in wide body airplanes with many people watching for support to not forget anything....

 

Question:  in the video link and others I have seen on line...many approaches end in a low pass instead of a touch.  Does the navy count a low pass as a qualifying approach?  or must you have a solid number of actual touches to qualify?

 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Jim Peace

[RLCarter]

I guess any thread is cleared for the option?

[Parker_Woodruff]

my primary concern in a Mooney related to Touch and Goes is a trim stall, especially in M20K and later models.

I do stop-and-goes and land/taxi-back only when with students or flying by myself.

[steingar]

When someone pays me to fly every day like the military guys I'll imitate them.  Until such a wonderful time I'll do my own thing.

[Cooperd0g]

6 hours ago, Jim Peace said:

 

Question:  in the video link and others I have seen on line...many approaches end in a low pass instead of a touch.  Does the navy count a low pass as a qualifying approach?  or must you have a solid number of actual touches to qualify?

 

No worries. A low pass will only count as an approach if it was flown as an instrument approach. Then you can log it as the instrument approach, but not as a landing. For field carrier landing practice, like what they are discussing in that link and on that video, it doesn't count in you log book for anything. 

By no means did I mean to imply that other aircraft should do touch and gos. My piston experience is pretty much limited to Cessna 152 and 172 and I did a fair amount of roll and go or stop and go for practice. I asked the question because I am looking to learn as I plan to buy a Mooney in the next year. I simply don't know enough about them. It seems as though there are some legitimate reasons why someone might not want to do touch and gos. Not everything has the thrust of fighter jets to hop right back in the air. 

[McMooney]

man, can't believe the whole conversation on the touch and go but then again it seems every point in aviation is up for debate.

 

At this point in my flying career, I've done so many touch and go's it's second nature; actually prefer them to burning holes.

 

[chrixxer]

On 7/13/2017 at 7:04 AM, steingar said:

The day I scrub a VFR flight for a balky transponder...

Guessing you're in the boonies... Some of us are within a Mode C veil every flight.

[KLRDMD]

On 7/16/2017 at 8:39 AM, KLRDMD said:

Risk-benefit. What's the benefit of touch and goes ? You might save a couple of minutes over a full stop taxi-back or you might save a few seconds over a stop and go. Stop and goes are allowed by both organizations. The vast majority of those flying Mooneys or Bonanzas/Baron own them so an extra couple minutes here are there, at essentially an idle power setting isn't costing you anything significant financially. What's the risk ? Not properly reconfiguring the airplane to include an elevator stall on take-off, inadvertently retracting the gear versus the flaps while reconfiguring the airplane for takeoff.

Exhibit A: http://www.wcmessenger.com/2017/breaking/man-uninjured-in-plane-wreck