How my CFI died

[peevee]

3 minutes ago, kmyfm20s said:

Just curious, why did you buy it if you didn't feel you had a need for it?

 

I thought I would learn something from it. I thought there would be insight to gain worthy of the investment. I'm a little tired of the hivemind around here pushing it as the end all be all to landing this type. I bought my ticket and took my ride, now I get to have an opinion on the matter.

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[donkaye]

5 minutes ago, peevee said:

I thought I would learn something from it. I thought there would be insight to gain worthy of the investment. I'm a little tired of the hivemind around here pushing it as the end all be all to landing this type.

Again I say send me your name and address and I'll return your money.  I can't tell you how many private emails I have received from others who found a lot of value in it for them.  You were obviously  the exception, and one who totally gets the slope/airspeed perspective that I've never seen taught by anyone else.

Edited January 5, 2016 by donkaye

[peevee]

while I'm on the subject the airplane flying handbook sums it up relatively cleanly..

 

Since on a normal approach the power setting is not fixed as in a power-off approach, the power and pitch attitude should be adjusted simultaneously as necessary, to control the airspeed, and the descent angle, or to attain the desired altitudes along the approach path. By lowering the nose and reducing power to keep approach airspeed constant, a descent at a higher rate can be made to correct for being too high in the approach. This is one reason for performing approaches with partial power; if the approach is too high, merely lower the nose and reduce the power. When the approach istoo low, add power and raise the nose

 

 

You can interpret that anyway you wish, to me it simply means adjust power for the glide path and adjust pitch to maintain airspeed with power changes simultaneously.

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[MyNameIsNobody]

13 hours ago, carusoam said:

Sharing a few observations...

Two guys with a background in safety.

Both do it for a living.

One in aviation on the west coast. An expert in his field.

The other in a manufacturing facility in Iowa.  Also an expert in his field.

Neither is expected to do it for free.

Both might agree...there is a cost to safety training.  If you don't like that cost, see what the cost is for not having the safety training.  You will probably like that even less.

Full disclosure:

I bought the video. Don had to put in extra effort to get it to me.  It got lost in the mail system during a tremendous snow fall a year or two ago...

I have worked in manufacturing plants around the globe.  (There is nothing more important than the safety of the customers, the product and the people that work there)

Sharing an observation,

-a-

 

Another "guy" that has clearly communicated what he thinks of me on the forum...as have I.  For the record, I do not work IN a manufacturing facility.  I work with many customers some of whom DO operate within a four walls location.  I am a Certified "Professional".  I DO need to work to live.  I do NOT, however, LIVE to work.

[carusoam]

Nobody,

I thought I wrote a positive observation.  That was the intention anyway.

I am no expert and don't mind removing a post...

(post removed)  

As Bob properly points out below, it is a sad thread about a tragedy.

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob]

It is very unfortunate that way too many threads continue to get hijacked since it is never productive. 

If you all must continue, please start your own thread, or even better, just send a PM!

The title is "HOW MY CFI DIED"!

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Edited at the point of now 103 replies:  So rather than getting the hint, some chose to fight back and continue to embarrass themselves.  About 10% of the posts are on subject or helpful and 90% are attacking, off subject or just part of a pissing contest.   

VERY SAD!

............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[donkaye]

7 minutes ago, peevee said:

Since on a normal approach the power setting is not fixed as in a power-off approach, the power and pitch attitude should be adjusted simultaneously as necessary, to control the airspeed, and the descent angle, or to attain the desired altitudes along the approach path. By lowering the nose and reducing power to keep approach airspeed constant, a descent at a higher rate can be made to correct for being too high in the approach. This is one reason for performing approaches with partial power; if the approach is too high, merely lower the nose and reduce the power. When the approach istoo low, add power and raise the nose

 

VERY poorly written in my opinion.  To me a student pilot trying to learn landings is not going learn it from that paragraph.  What slope, what descent angle, what speed, how about low and fast/slow, high and fast/slow?  Why the 3° nominal slope when learning and used in most landing situations?  How does learning the 3° slope help when needing to fly an apparent 5° slope (Think Aspen, Co)?

[MyNameIsNobody]

You did.  Just providing clarification and full disclosure.

[MyNameIsNobody]

3 minutes ago, Bob said:

It is very unfortunate that way too many threads continue to get hijacked since it is never productive. 

If you all must continue, please start your one thread, or even better, just send a PM!

The title is "HOW MY CFI DIED"!

Bob, I could not disagree more.  There is a lot of potentially life saving VALUE here mixed in with the color and remorse.

[donkaye]

10 minutes ago, Bob said:

It is very unfortunate that way too many threads continue to get hijacked since it is never productive. 

If you all must continue, please start your one thread, or even better, just send a PM!

The title is "HOW MY CFI DIED"!

OK. So what benefit do we get from reading about it and not commenting?  Although unintended, hopefully some benefit will be gotten from this discussion, that while unintended, may be instructive for some.

Actually I thank "Nobody" and "peeve" for providing the counterpoint to the discussion. Without them my in passing "see my video" would not have led to this discussion.

Edited January 5, 2016 by donkaye

[peevee]

26 minutes ago, donkaye said:

VERY poorly written in my opinion.  To me a student pilot trying to learn landings is not going learn it from that paragraph.  What slope, what descent angle, what speed, how about low and fast/slow, high and fast/slow?  Why the 3° nominal slope when learning and used in most landing situations?  How does learning the 3° slope help when needing to fly an apparent 5° slope (Think Aspen, Co)?

I think you know there isn't one answer to that question. It goes back to instructor tells, instructor does to demonstrate the appropriate sight picture for that aircraft then the above technique to maintain that picture and appropriate airspeed. That picture can be gained from your video, it does that well.

Edited January 5, 2016 by peevee

[Andy95W]

[donkaye]

39 minutes ago, peevee said:

I think you know there isn't one answer to that question. It goes back to instructor tells, instructor does to demonstrate the appropriate sight picture for that aircraft then the above technique to maintain that picture and appropriate airspeed. That picture can be gained from your video, it does that well.

And that was the purpose of the video.  Site picture and looking at the V/S and airspeed while listening to the small power changes denoted by the alternator noise changes, then the small rate of change of pitch attitude at the roundabout leading to a soft touchdown with the stall warning sounding while at the same time viewing the landing from the outside camera on the ground.  And then there was recovery from multiple bounces in the bounced landing section of the video.  I don't know of anyone who has made a video showing bounced landings and recovery from them.

You can't "teach" landings from a video.  An instructor riding with you and observing your technique is required for that.  But viewing how a landing should be done can certainly help improve landing technique from my experience.

[ArtVandelay]

I'm so sick of the "altitude controlled by power, airspeed controlled by pitch"

i used pitch to remain on the glide slope, because pitch results in a quick change, but temporary. I use power to change the airspeed, because power effects lag, but a long lasting.

ATC does not care if your airspeed is too high or low, and I want the change to remain, so I use power for airspeed.

The opposite is true for remaining on the glide slope, you need to get back on slope quickly and readjusting be necessary.

im betting the big iron auto throttles use power for airspeed and pitch to control the altitude on approach.

 

[donkaye]

43 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

I'm so sick of the "altitude controlled by power, airspeed controlled by pitch"

Once again, pitch and power are interrelated.  The key that unifies them and makes it easy to maintain precision control of an airplane are the 2 rules taught to me by my mentor instructor, Bob Goldin, and even though he no longer teaches, I am carrying on his work.   These rules work on both the front and backside of the power curve:  

PITCH CONTROLS EITHER SPEED OR RATE-OF-CLIMB/DESCENT (ROC),

WHICHEVER IS MOST IMPORTANT, AT ANY PHASE OF FLIGHT.

 

and

 

THROTTLE CONTROLS THE OTHER. (IF PITCH IS PRIME FOR SPEED, THEN

THROTTLE CONTROLS ROC.

 

Thus, if you are on the ILS, slope is most important and is controlled by pitch.  In level flight, altitude is most important to ATC and is controlled by pitch.  When landing, speed is most important and is controlled by pitch.  On the backside of the power curve, speed is most important and is controlled by pitch.  The point is that pitch is most important to the item that needs to be controlled most accurately at the moment because it is immediate.  Once this basic fact is truly understood, precision aircraft control is simple.  When used in combination with slope management, these principles makes landing airplanes absolutely simple and perfect landings should be accomplishable every time.

 

I know when a student finally "gets it" because it shows in the perfection of their landings.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by donkaye

[PTK]

2 hours ago, N1395W said:

Hey...wait a minute!! Not so fast there Andy buddy!! That's my pop corn picture!!!

[PTK]

46 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Once again, pitch and power are interrelated.  The key that unifies them and makes it easy to maintain precision control of an airplane are the 2 rules taught to me by my mentor instructor, Bob Goldin, and even though he no longer teaches, I am carrying on his work.   These rules work on both the front and backside of the power curve:  

PITCH CONTROLS EITHER SPEED OR RATE-OF-CLIMB/DESCENT (ROC),

WHICHEVER IS MOST IMPORTANT, AT ANY PHASE OF FLIGHT.

 

and

 

THROTTLE CONTROLS THE OTHER. (IF PITCH IS PRIME FOR SPEED, THEN

THROTTLE CONTROLS ROC.

 

Thus, if you are on the ILS, slope is most important and is controlled by pitch.  In level flight, altitude is most important to ATC and is controlled by pitch.  When landing, speed is most important and is controlled by pitch.  On the backside of the power curve, speed is most important and is controlled by pitch.  The point is that pitch is most important to the item that needs to be controlled most accurately at the moment because it is immediate.  Once this basic fact is truly understood, precision aircraft control is simple.  When used in combination with slope management, these principles makes landing airplanes absolutely simple and perfect landings should be accomplishable every time.

 

I know when a student finally "gets it" because it shows in the perfection of their landings.

 

Don, thank you for sharing your expertise.

[Mooneymite]

Well...this is all news to me.

I thought autopilot controls pitch and roll, auto throttles control power.

Come on guys....we need some levity.

[Marauder]

Well...this is all news to me.

I thought autopilot controls pitch and roll, auto throttles control power.

Come on guys....we need some levity.

And I always thought rate of climb or descent was whether one of my women were leaning forward or leaning back. I'm confused.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Alan Fox]

You know something , up until I read this post , I was sure that I was the biggest dick on this forum , with Pete as a close second.....apparently we are not even close , you not only embarrass yourself , but every one else on this post ,   Don I truly believe you are genuine , and also believe you are above this childish banter......  My name is nobody , you are an ass for this whole pointless exchange , it adds nothing to the forum and lessens its value , Regards Alan.....

[N33GG]

I'm pretty sure I have been nominated biggest prick on this forum, and I don't plan on giving that title away to anybody!

[MyNameIsNobody]

That is all someone from South Jersey can bring?  Funny.  

[Andy95W]

4 hours ago, PTK said:

Hey...wait a minute!! Not so fast there Andy buddy!! That's my pop corn picture!!!

Yup!  Thanks!

 Save the whales, recycle!

Edited January 6, 2016 by N1395W

[Tony Armour]

Still waiting on my DVD Don, whats the hold up........I sent the money five minutes ago !! 

Friends and family too so no fees, in turn I'll take a couple days free flight training :-) 

Something I should have gotten years ago.

EDIT: I just read the last two pages of this thread. On the Beechtalk forum, probably the best around, you must use your real name. No hiding behind an alias ......... Same folks are to chicken shit to put their location. If one is not willing to do that then they're not even worth having here.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Tony Armour

[jetdriven]

14 hours ago, N1395W said:

Since Thread-Creep has already occurred with this topic, I'll add to it some.

At low power settings and when the engine is operating below the propeller governing range (prop control full forward, throttle controls the rpm) I have never been very concerned with the the red arc on the tach for the very small amount of time that I'm in the traffic pattern.  I fly out of an airport with less than 2,000 feet available landing distance.  If I paid attention to that red arc on landing I'd probably be in the weeds either long or short of the runway.

To reiterate: VERY low power setting, BELOW the governing range, and MINIMAL time (1-2 minute on base and final).

With anything above minimal power I avoid the red arc like the plague, of course.

I have about 900 hours in 2 different M20C's with absolutely no ill effects.  My first M20C is almost at TBO (different owner) again with no adverse issues with the engine.

no continuous operation. I read a thread where a Hartzell rep said that was equivalent to 5 minutes.  So less than 5 minutes, ignore it.